Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap: The Trades We'd Make Before The Play Offs

[KIRK]

Idk that comment was more in reference to the rest, not technically that part.

Like the "we need more toughness so Crosby and Malkin don't take shots" part. That's straight up 2017 GMJR thinking.

Got it. Sorry for the confusion.

BTW, I've always been a fan of the Ruutu school of thought. Find a guy like that to target the other team's stars proactively. The other team is going after Sid (and sometimes Geno). Every minute they spend trying to kill someone else on your team is one less they're trying to kill Sid.

A Max Domi, for example, won't engage a Ryan Reeves type after a cheap shot to Sid. BUT, he may confront (or otherwise direct some focus to) a Jarkko Ruutu type who beats him to the punch with Nick Suzuki.

Give me a troll like that who fits the system and style any time. And, truth be told, I hate the guy, but I'd be happy with a Tom Wilson on this team (due is an ***hole, but he's tough, he's big, and he's a legit top 6 guy with some semi wheels).

 

[Gurglesons]

McCann is a weird one. When he’s on, you can see the potential that he’ll be a consistent 40-50 point guy that’s also a pain in the ass to play against. When he’s off like in this series, he doesn’t even look like he should be in the NHL.

I’d like to see what he turns into, but if there’s a move out there that improves the team involving McCann, then I say go for it.

McCann is never going to be a 40-50 pt guy, and I honestly don't think we will ever see a 3C put that type of production up here without significant injury to Sid or Malkin.

 

[KIRK]

McCann is never going to be a 40-50 pt guy, and I honestly don't think we will ever see a 3C put that type of production up here without significant injury to Sid or Malkin.

I just don't see McCann as a good 3C choice for the Pens, and that's not really about the points.

EDIT: If my memory isn't failing me, this would provide you with quite the opportunity to offer up an 'I told you so' regarding the 3C position to some of your critics here.

 

[Gurglesons]

I just don't see McCann as a good 3C choice for the Pens, and that's not really about the points.

EDIT: If my memory isn't failing me, this would provide you with quite the opportunity to offer up an 'I told you so' regarding the 3C position to some of your critics here.

I threw that argument into the trash after everyone said Bonino would be easily replaceable and we proceeded to spend literally every asset possible to bring a shittier Bonino in.

 

[chethejet]

I really liked the 2009 Pens roster. That to me is the best team since the 1992 Pens. They had all the elements of size, grit, skill and compete to win vs a exceptionally talented Red Wings team. For me that is the better formula that the smurf, speed, skill that GMJR and Sully prize. Now it its true the Stall big center is just not easy to find and physical wingers who can shoot. skate and play smart are hard to come by. But to me that is the way to go starting this off season.

 

[Kristopher Letang]

So.... What can we get from Florida when they decide to blow it up?

 

[Kristopher Letang]

I really liked the 2009 Pens roster. That to me is the best team since the 1992 Pens. They had all the elements of size, grit, skill and compete to win vs a exceptionally talented Red Wings team. For me that is the better formula that the smurf, speed, skill that GMJR and Sully prize. Now it its true the Stall big center is just not easy to find and physical wingers who can shoot. skate and play smart are hard to come by. But to me that is the way to go starting this off season.

2016 > 2009

How is that a better formula? We won back to backs using speed. Shero kept chasing the 2009 model and got us nowhere. And the moment JR started to go after size and grit we went backwards.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

McCann is the kind of player I really want to like but he goes into current-Geno black holes for dozens of games straight like it's his job. And unlike current-Geno he isn't even generally playing good D and at least creating SOME chances while he's in those funks.

Went from being a must-sign when acquired to a highly questionable one, to me. Which frankly tells me it's probably ACTUALLY somewhere in the middle.

Still... leaning "no."

 

[Randy Butternubs]

So.... What can we get from Florida when they decide to blow it up?

Well, Haula is going to be a free agent.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think you can get suitable 3C performances out of a rotation between Bjugstad, Rodrigues, Blueger and Lafferty. I don't think this is like 2017-2018, where they had to acquire Sheahan and only had Sheahan, McKegg and Rowney down the middle. I think you have 3 guys who have shown they can be 3C caliber players or better and a 4th guy that looks like he has that kind of potential.

Basically, I don't think you should commit to signing McCann and making him your long-term 3C if he gives these kind of performances in the playoffs. He wasn't exactly better last year, either. Sinking his value to dump JJ and making ERod or Bjugstad your 3C sounds better to me than letting ERod walk, dumping Bjugstad, re-signing McCann and keeping JJ.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Well, Haula is going to be a free agent.

I wouldn’t touch a player with those knee injuries.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If I'm understanding Empo correctly... I too would like to move to a more "traditional" 3C and third line in general. I'm not saying I want them to be a bunch of stone-handed goobers. But maybe a bit heavier, more focused on wearing opponents down for the top lines, shot suppression, etc. Use the 4th line as a skill changeup, if anything.

It would be awfully nice to start doing some of this in-house, too. Or MORE of it and/or trust some options with more responsibility (like Bloogs and ERod). This team spends an inordinate, asinine amount of time, money and assets on it's third line in general and 3C in particular.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If I'm understanding Empo correctly... I too would like to move to a more "traditional" 3C and third line in general. I'm not saying I want them to be a bunch of stone-handed goobers. But maybe a bit heavier, more focused on wearing opponents down for the top lines, shot suppression, etc. Use the 4th line as a skill changeup, if anything.

It would be awfully nice to start doing some of this in-house, too. Or MORE of it and/or trust some options with more responsibility (like Bloogs and ERod). This team spends an inordinate, asinine amount of time, money and assets on it's third line in general and 3C in particular.

That's not exactly what I was getting at. I was more going for the angle of it's not worth paying McCann and making him your long-term 3C over letting your other 3C caliber players battle for it if he's going to give these bad playoff results. I think the Penguins have that "traditional 3rd line" already in the BART line, it's more of a problem of "I don't think McCann is worth $3 million to the Penguins" than me really having a problem with McCann as the 3C.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Ah. Well then... we agree, regardless.

Shoot BART into the Sun, BTW. Paper darlings.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Not many enticing UFA 3Cs out there. Maybe Cody Eakin?

Regarding a larger, stronger RW for Sid, does anyone know if Killorn can play RW?

 

[Rakell67]

Not many enticing UFA 3Cs out there. Maybe Cody Eakin?

Regarding a larger, stronger RW for Sid, does anyone know if Killorn can play RW?

If not, put Zucker on RW and reunite GMR

Killorn Crosby Zucker
Guentzel Malkin Rust
Simon McCann Hornqvist
Aston-Reese Blueger Tanev
Lafferty

 

[Terrapin]

Got it. Sorry for the confusion.

BTW, I've always been a fan of the Ruutu school of thought. Find a guy like that to target the other team's stars proactively. The other team is going after Sid (and sometimes Geno). Every minute they spend trying to kill someone else on your team is one less they're trying to kill Sid.

A Max Domi, for example, won't engage a Ryan Reeves type after a cheap shot to Sid. BUT, he may confront (or otherwise direct some focus to) a Jarkko Ruutu type who beats him to the punch with Nick Suzuki.

Give me a troll like that who fits the system and style any time. And, truth be told, I hate the guy, but I'd be happy with a Tom Wilson on this team (due is an ***hole, but he's tough, he's big, and he's a legit top 6 guy with some semi wheels).

Well I thought Tanev could be that guy, and to his credit, I believe he did knock Gallagher out of the game after Gallagher was dicking with Sid.

 

[Terrapin]

2016 > 2009

How is that a better formula? We won back to backs using speed. Shero kept chasing the 2009 model and got us nowhere. And the moment JR started to go after size and grit we went backwards.

Because, like every other sport in history, the league adapts and changes. It's like saying the Steelers should go back to running the ball 60 times a game, cause they won Super Bowls in the 70s by doing it.

 

[The Old Master]

If I'm understanding Empo correctly... I too would like to move to a more "traditional" 3C and third line in general. I'm not saying I want them to be a bunch of stone-handed goobers. But maybe a bit heavier, more focused on wearing opponents down for the top lines, shot suppression, etc. Use the 4th line as a skill changeup, if anything.

It would be awfully nice to start doing some of this in-house, too. Or MORE of it and/or trust some options with more responsibility (like Bloogs and ERod). This team spends an inordinate, asinine amount of time, money and assets on it's third line in general and 3C in particular.

nah, our 3c needs to be able to fill in for sid or geno in a pinch. or have a winger that could move over.

 

[xlm34]

I wonder how much JR is going to want to pay him.

Will JR qualify him? Sure. 100% of current salary. No problem.

What if someone comes with an offer sheet at 2.1M per? In a buyer's market, will he want to pay that or take the 3rd rounder and see how free agency plays out? What if it's north of that, say 3M per? In that case, I suspect he takes the 2nd rounder and walks.

PERSONALLY, I suspect JR will qualify him, and if he doesn't think someone will give an offer sheet, McCann will elect to take the Pens to arbitration. In that case, given what comparable players are getting, I suspect the arbitrator award will be of an amount that JR feels obligated to walk.

Man, just war gaming this one out, I think McCann is gone, and JR may just decide to trade his RFA rights for like a 3rd or 4th round pick, just so he can have his options open before free agency starts.

Yeah I won’t be upset any way they decide to go on McCann, but tend to agree that anything over 3M might end up not being worth it in the long run.

Someone already pointed it out, but with how much Sully plays BART, should we really pay McCann to get the minutes he’s going to get? That money is probably better spent elsewhere.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

nah, our 3c needs to be able to fill in for sid or geno in a pinch. or have a winger that could move over.

I mean... I get this angle. Sid and especially Malkin are who they are injury-wise. But I just don't think spending like 4-5M+ on your 3LC is a wise use of cap or a terribly great team philosophy. If one of the two goes out short to medium term... you tread water with what you have and adjust your gameplan. If one of the two is out long-term you look to the market. If both go out you ain't winning shit, anyway.

 

[The Old Master]

I mean... I get this angle. Sid and especially Malkin are who they are injury-wise. But I just don't think spending like 4-5M+ on your 3LC is a wise use of cap or a terribly great team philosophy. If one of the two goes out short to medium term... you tread water with what you have and adjust your gameplan. If one of the two is out long-term you look to the market. If both go out you ain't winning shit, anyway.

then you need to draft one. hard to do when you trade them off.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah... you aren't wrong. I've been saying build out the depth lines from the draft for years and to be fair they are mixing in guys better than they used to.

But I gotta stick up for trading picks while Sid and Geno are still around.

 

[Peat]

Why does 'a bigger physical RW for Sid' automatically mean in your mind? Just because Rutherford failed to look for a middle ground in 2017 doesn't mean there isn't a middle ground where you can find a bigger physical RW for Sid who fits the Pens style.

It's less of a middle ground than a high ground though; players like that are like gold dust. If Poulin (or a little further down the line, Legare or maybe even Bjorkqvist with ridiculous development luck) isn't the answer, acquiring that guy in trade will sting.

Which also goes for what @BlindWillyMcHurt is saying about a more conventional, heavy third line that isn't stone-handed goobers. That will not be cheap. Big, good, cheap - pick two. It's the NHL way.

I wonder how much JR is going to want to pay him.

Will JR qualify him? Sure. 100% of current salary. No problem.

What if someone comes with an offer sheet at 2.1M per? In a buyer's market, will he want to pay that or take the 3rd rounder and see how free agency plays out? What if it's north of that, say 3M per? In that case, I suspect he takes the 2nd rounder and walks.

PERSONALLY, I suspect JR will qualify him, and if he doesn't think someone will give an offer sheet, McCann will elect to take the Pens to arbitration. In that case, given what comparable players are getting, I suspect the arbitrator award will be of an amount that JR feels obligated to walk.

Man, just war gaming this one out, I think McCann is gone, and JR may just decide to trade his RFA rights for like a 3rd or 4th round pick, just so he can have his options open before free agency starts.

That's a pretty dark scenario for a 25 year old guy with a 40 point pace who isn't a defensive issue by any stretch. I know teams will pay less if they're not sending salary back, but a 3rd or 4th - Pouliot or Bennett reclamation project prices - for a legit useful NHLer that we probably don't have to move, and where their likely cap hit (3mish) for next year's likely production (30ish) is fair enough, is a pretty bad day at the office unless trade values go real south. And if that does happen, why not try a salary for salary move with him (like we can probably afford)? I can see Buffalo trading Colin Miller for him f'ex.

If not, put Zucker on RW and reunite GMR

Killorn Crosby Zucker
Guentzel Malkin Rust
Simon McCann Hornqvist
Aston-Reese Blueger Tanev
Lafferty

Minnesota fans mostly reckon Zucker is nowhere near as good as a RW.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean... I just don't want them to be completely useless is all. I'm not even looking for like 40 point production. 30ish is fine with maybe an emphasis on dirty goal scoring and net front crash and bang. I REALLY don't think that would break the bank and in fact likely could have already been developed internally. But again... gotta spend assets in this era to stay competitive. I get that.

I guess my main point is I have always and will continue to think it extremely stupid to spend big money on your third line. This core isn't young anymore... more DIRECT support needed. Maybe even with some chemistry someday would be nice.

Also I love ya man but sticking Horns with Geno NOW would probably make smoke pour out of the poor dude's ears. Plus Hornqvist looks like he's skating in quicksand, these days. Not just the ice, there.