Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins lead up to the trade deadline - Help needed, please apply

[Empoleon8771]

I'd keep experimenting with Crosby/Malkin together and go after Pageau then. Honestly.

Nah, I'd just go lighter at the deadline. Even if they're not top-6 forwards, there are going to be a good amount of middle-6 or 3rd line guys available at the deadline. Kovalchuk, Simmonds, Toffoli, Frolik, Boedker, Namestnikov, Sheary, Gagner and Vesey are all almost definitely going to be available, so there are forwards you can add if you can't add a guy like Tatar or Zucker.

If none of the top-6 options end up working out, just improve your depth and hope your stars can carry the team. Maybe trade Galchenyuk for Namestnikov and throw a 3rd to Montreal for Kovalchuk or New Jersey for Simmonds. I don't view that as a failure on JR's part, it's just not a market for him to get what he wants.

 

[Flying Dego]

I'd keep experimenting with Crosby/Malkin together and go after Pageau then. Honestly.

Crosby and Malkin are weird together. They both dictate the play and almost hamstring each other bc they are hesitant. When they have their own lines they know it's them driving the line. Together they defer too much.

I think resorting to them as linemates marks the end of our season if thats our best available option. We need one of those two on the ice 2/3 of the game not 1/3.

 

[Liberty Biberty]

I'd keep experimenting with Crosby/Malkin together and go after Pageau then. Honestly.

It feels like robbing Peter to pay Paul. Im not totally against it if the price is right, Sid-JGP-McCann-Teddy down the middle is solid, but who the hell plays with all those centers? Id like to make a deal that helps the team for more than just this season. Unless we are trying to find Guerin like pick ups for cheap to throw **** at the wall to see what sticks.

 

[ChaosAgent]

10-11, the year Malkin played with the rotating cast of Asham, Cooke, and Talbot and it was his fault he only had 37 points in 43 games until he blew his knee out.

Ironically enough, the times we had our best wings (arguably) were 2 of our biggest playoff failures ever (11-12 and 12-13)

Malkin wasn't good in '10-'11. His formula for early success was - and this is greatly oversimplified because I'm just a Joe Schmo - to use his great skill in the immediate post-lockout era in which team depth wasn't great and the league's defenses were littered with pylons still.

After '10-'11 he realized he needed to make a greater commitment to straight-line hockey and fitness which is where his well-document "bulk" (which really just brought him from like Matt Murray levels of skinny to weightlifting newb gainz) came in and he's been fantastic ever since...with the very notable exception of his Phil-Kessel-plagued '18-'19.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Crosby and Malkin are weird together. They both dictate the play and almost hamstring each other bc they are hesitant. When they have their own lines they know it's them driving the line. Together they defer too much.

I think resorting to them as linemates marks the end of our season if thats our best available option. We need one of those two on the ice 2/3 of the game not 1/3.

You could toy with that. You could also just toy with JGP on Crosby's wing. Crosby could use the defensive help IMO. He's been bad on that end this year.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I'm not going to say it's a failure on JR's part if there's just not a market of available top-6 forwards. It's not fair to criticize him for doing whatever it takes to get a top-6 forward when we don't know what "whatever it takes" means. Do you want to pay 3 1sts for Tomas Tatar? Of course not, but if that's the only option, are you going to say it was a failure that JR didn't make that move?

This deadline may shape up into being similar to the 2012 deadline, where there was almost no one of significance moved and prices were absurd (Paul Gaustad brought back a 1st). I'm not going to criticize JR for not pulling a rabbit out of his hat when the situation is like that.

Yeah, and I think, unfortunately for JR and the Pens, there isn’t much available and paying a ludicrous price for a guy who would be available for the “right” price isn’t the answer. The West has too many teams too close together and it’s not changing right now. The East has a handful of teams close together as well and they’re not going to sell but might also be looking to buy. It’s a bad season for what he needs and it doesn’t look like a good one for buyers in general. JR isn’t Shero where he’d sit there waiting for the perfect trade he could win or expect Crosby and Malkin to elevate his bottom 6 deadline finds. If he’s not digging something up, there really wasn’t anything worth it to him.

I just hope he doesn’t go straight for Zucker in the off season and overpay.

 

[Beauner]

I'm not going to say it's a failure on JR's part if there's just not a market of available top-6 forwards. It's not fair to criticize him for doing whatever it takes to get a top-6 forward when we don't know what "whatever it takes" means. Do you want to pay 3 1sts for Tomas Tatar? Of course not, but if that's the only option, are you going to say it was a failure that JR didn't make that move?

This deadline may shape up into being similar to the 2012 deadline, where there was almost no one of significance moved and prices were absurd (Paul Gaustad brought back a 1st). I'm not going to criticize JR for not pulling a rabbit out of his hat when the situation is like that.

If no one is willing to sell, he still needs to do something to bolster depth. Playing our 4th line 5 minutes a night because they suck is not sustainable.

Trade a 4th for Sheary and a 3rd for Fast. Trade a prospect for a center. Doing nothing isn't the answer. Anything other than Galchanyuk/Aggozino/Lafferty/Angello

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, and I think, unfortunately for JR and the Pens, there isn’t much available and paying a ludicrous price for a guy who would be available for the “right” price isn’t the answer. The West has too many teams too close together and it’s not changing right now. The East has a handful of teams close together as well and they’re not going to sell but might also be looking to buy. It’s a bad season for what he needs and it doesn’t look like a good one for buyers in general. JR isn’t Shero where he’d sit there waiting for the perfect trade he could win or expect Crosby and Malkin to elevate his bottom 6 deadline finds. If he’s not digging something up, there really wasn’t anything worth it to him.

I just hope he doesn’t go straight for Zucker in the off season and overpay.

Honestly, I wouldn't even bother going after Zucker if you can't acquire him at the deadline. The strong desire to overpay for Zucker is completely because of Guentzel's injury. If replacing Guentzel wasn't such a glaring flaw, no one would be okay with trading the prices thrown out in here for Zucker.

If Zucker doesn't happen at the deadline, I move on from the idea. I'm perfectly happy with adding depth at the deadline (Namestnikov is a guy I'm really intrigued with as a LW option for Malkin) and planning on Guentzel-Simon and Kahun-Rust being your top-6 winger duos going into next season. If you can't get any top-6 options, I'd say I'd want to do Galchenyuk for Namestnikov and then trade a 2nd-4th for another depth forward.

 

[Beauner]

On Zucker, I'm starting to get a feeling that his value is going to be less than some are expecting here. You have a fairly similar player to Zucker that has been traded recently, it was Dzingel as a rental last year. Sure, Dzingel was a rental, but how much value does Zucker having 2 more years at $5.5 million really offer? That's a fairly hefty price when you can get players like Dzingel, Kahun and Johnsson can give you nearly as good results while costing $3-$3.5 million a year. Dzingel went for 2 2nds and Duclair (a reclamation project at the time), so purely in value, I think Galchenyuk, Hallander and a 2nd may be enough for Zucker. Going from the 2nd to 1st isn't a huge jump, so I'd mostly be whatever on increasing the pick, but I feel like Galchenyuk, Hallander and a 1st is probably an overpayment for Zucker.

Only problem there is that Minny isn't motivated to sell right now. If they were then I'd agree. But to pry him out of there right now, you'd have to create that motivation which would obviously fall more in line with what we've discussed before (basically a 1st+)

 

[Empoleon8771]

Only problem there is that Minny isn't motivated to sell right now. If they were then I'd agree. But to pry him out of there right now, you'd have to create that motivation which would obviously fall more in line with what we've discussed before (basically a 1st+)

Minnesota is thinking about trading Zucker because of Kaprizov, not because they're going to start selling off assets. They want to make a wing spot for Kaprizov and they think the other trade options they have are either unmovable or don't have much value. I don't think it has much to do with "convincing Minnesota to sell". Guerin just needs to decide if he wants to trade Zucker now or wait until the off-season, JR offering more isn't going to help Guerin figure that out. That's dependent on whether Minnesota is still in the playoff hunt by the deadline.

I do think there's an aspect where Guerin may say "you're not offering enough for me to trade Zucker right now instead of at the draft", but the expectation is that Zucker is most likely going to be traded for reasons not relating to what the Penguins would be offering.

 

[Ogrezilla]

JR offering more isn't going to help Guerin figure that out. That's dependent on whether Minnesota is still in the playoff hunt by the deadline.

You have to figure some degree of paying more could sway him

 

[Empoleon8771]

You have to figure some degree of paying more could sway him

Yeah, I included that in my edit

What I mean by that is that the price JR is willing to pay isn't the primary driver of Guerin making that decision. The decision is being driven by Kaprizov, and it's a "trade someone now or trade someone at the draft" situation. Sure, you could offer more to push Guerin into moving Zucker now instead of waiting to move Zucker, but it's not really a situation of convincing Guerin to trade Zucker. It's a situation of convincing Guerin to trade Zucker now instead of trading Zucker at the draft.

 

[SEALBound]

The market is pretty meh and you will have several teams looking to add. Cap problems for several teams are going to hamper a lot of deals. I'm sure Seattle considerations are in there as well.

On the trade main board, someone said Galchenyuk for Chiasson? Someone said TIOPS said it but I can't find it. That would be a very interesting swap for us IMHO. Chiasson would be a good 3rd line LW add for us, especially if the price was Chucky.

That said, if JR misses out on a high profile guy like Zucker, I'm betting there will be a deal for a second tier guy like Grandlund or Smith. Realistically people, we need our health back. I can't fathom how many times I've said that BS over the years but it seems to ring true every year. This team just gave Tampa a pretty good go. That was a winnable game. You add the likes of Kahun, Dumo, Bjugstad (I say he's better than Angello...) and you start to build some chemistry, that will make more of an impact than anything. The pieces are there. We just have to put them together in the right way and the boys have to execute. Simple as that.

That said:

Smith for a 3rd
Chucky for Chiasson

McCann-Sid-Smith
Kahun-Malkin-Rust
Chiasson-Bjugstad-Hornqvist
ZAR-Bleuger-Tanev

Dumo-Letang
JJ-Marino
Pettersson-Schultz

MM/TJ

That's a capable line up. Would prefer a top line of Zucker-Sid-XXXX but...

ETA: Assume no Bjugstad:

Smith-Sid-Simon (The 3S...or S3...or Sidonith line)
Kahun-Malkin-Rust
Chiasson-McCann-Horny
BART

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Honestly, I wouldn't even bother going after Zucker if you can't acquire him at the deadline. The strong desire to overpay for Zucker is completely because of Guentzel's injury. If replacing Guentzel wasn't such a glaring flaw, no one would be okay with trading the prices thrown out in here for Zucker.

If Zucker doesn't happen at the deadline, I move on from the idea. I'm perfectly happy with adding depth at the deadline (Namestnikov is a guy I'm really intrigued with as a LW option for Malkin) and planning on Guentzel-Simon and Kahun-Rust being your top-6 winger duos going into next season. If you can't get any top-6 options, I'd say I'd want to do Galchenyuk for Namestnikov and then trade a 2nd-4th for another depth forward.

I’m not going to say don’t go after him at all and JR does seem fixated on him, but they need to play the field in the off season. There should be more options and the pressure to overpay should be removed by then. If the price is too high then walk the f*** away and go for other players, he’s not the level of player you suck it up and overpay for. If he goes for something reasonable and JR gets his man then fine. Guentzel, Rust, Zucker and hopefully Kahun are a very nice top 6 winger group.

 

[Peat]

2nd+Hallander for Zucker is roughly fair, as in its in line with what other wingers have got. I'd rather not give up Hallander but there we go.

 

[Andy99]

2nd+Hallander for Zucker is roughly fair, as in its in line with what other wingers have got. I'd rather not give up Hallander but there we go.

Perhaps, but I think you have to consider that the big negative with Zucker is the three more years left on his contract...to me that lowers his value because given his production THIS YEAR he's overpaid and he's only getting older...I think for us to take on that contract, Minn would have to take on a contract like Bjug from the Pens...I know he's not healthy, but I'd much rather do a 1st + Bjug than offer one of our prospects who might be ready to play for the club during the term of Zucker's remaining contract and a 2nd...I certainly wouldn't want to have to pay even more assets to Seattle to take the remainder of Zucker's contract either if he doesn't pan out

 

[Will Hunting]

Simmonds????? Wait........ Simmonds???? Guy should hang them up and he is the worse version of Horny as well. Fits our style like a snow fits the Africa. Thought that Empo is smarter than that. I know that he is not strongly advocating for it but just mentioning Simmonds makes me absolutely furious here. No way.

 

[Ugene Magic]

ESPN has us trading for Zucker and parting with Hallander and a 2021 second...I wouldn’t do that but then again I don’t think Zucker is going to do much for us...

NHL experts propose six trades ahead of the deadline

I really don't want Boston getting Kreider. Or the Caps and anyone else the Pens would have to go through in the east. It's one thing if he goes out west, and I'd prefer that if the Pens can't get him.

I also believe Pageau is just as much a need. I'd rather have playoff performers. The Pens loaded up with them before. Kreider/Saad are two wingers that come to mind, and Pageau is a heart and sole guy too.

Zucker is a pretty boy who's a negative asset in the playoffs.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I really don't want Boston getting Kreider. Or the Caps and anyone else the Pens would have to go through in the east. It's one thing if he goes out west, and I'd prefer that if the Pens can't get him.

I also believe Pageau is just as much a need. I'd rather have playoff performers. The Pens loaded up with them before. Kreider/Saad are two wingers that come to mind, and Pageau is a heart and sole guy too.

Zucker is a pretty boy who's a negative asset in the playoffs.

Pageau's problem is still that he's going to cost an arm and a leg. Centers are just always overpriced. And we have better centers than wings.

Zucker plays in Minnesota, which means I don't actually know a damn thing about him

 

[EightyOne]

Simmonds????? Wait........ Simmonds???? Guy should hang them up and he is the worse version of Horny as well. Fits our style like a snow fits the Africa. Thought that Empo is smarter than that. I know that he is not strongly advocating for it but just mentioning Simmonds makes me absolutely furious here. No way.

It'd be awesome.

Five years ago.

 

[Peat]

Perhaps, but I think you have to consider that the big negative with Zucker is the three more years left on his contract...to me that lowers his value because given his production THIS YEAR he's overpaid and he's only getting older...I think for us to take on that contract, Minn would have to take on a contract like Bjug from the Pens...I know he's not healthy, but I'd much rather do a 1st + Bjug than offer one of our prospects who might be ready to play for the club during the term of Zucker's remaining contract and a 2nd...I certainly wouldn't want to have to pay even more assets to Seattle to take the remainder of Zucker's contract either if he doesn't pan out

Zucker is currently the joint 25th highest paid LW, a status that will only go down due to the lack of guys who will get less paid/retire in front of him (its Steen with an expiring contract end of next season and that's it unless buyouts happen for Lucic/Eriksson) and the guys who'll get paid behind him (Kreider at least, maybe Bertuzzi and Burakovsky; year after you'll see Schwartz, Tatar, Gusev all leapfrog and maybe Pearson, Vrana, Fiala, Hyman as well - oh wait, Tkachuk the younger and Svechnikov too). And at his age he's unlikely to start declining from what he is during the length of his contract.

He is currently, excluding ELC wingers, 27th in goals, 36th in points and 24th in ppg. In other words he is, when fit, almost aggressively fairly priced among his fellow non-ELC LWs - and maybe a bit better, as he's high in goals and fairly low in PP time (just 39th), not to mention fairly safe as he's done this repeatedly. And is also an excellent play driver. He can even take a semi regular PK shift if you want.

To sum up, Zucker's fairly paid and is very likely to stay fairly paid. If he doesn't pan out moving his contract shouldn't be that much of an issue unless he is absolutely horrific.

 

[Darren McCord]

At this point they have to put Rust back on RW. If they want put Tanev on the LW and it comes to it. I would run

Simon - Sid - Tanev
Zar - Geno - Rust (This pains me so much)
Gally - Mcann - Horny
Angello - TB - Lafferty

 

[Turin]

Call me crazy but if it takes a 2nd and Hallander to get Zucker then I’d offer more than a 1st and Bjork for Kreider too, if nothing else but to drive up the price for other Eastern teams.

 

[SEALBound]

Call me crazy but if it takes a 2nd and Hallander to get Zucker then I’d offer more than a 1st and Bjork for Kreider too, if nothing else but to drive up the price for other Eastern teams.

Not sure the cap works but imagine the line up if Jake returns...

Jake-Sid-Zucker
Kreider-Malkin-Rust
Kahun-McCann-Horny
BART

2nd+Hallander for Zucker is roughly fair, as in its in line with what other wingers have got. I'd rather not give up Hallander but there we go.

I think that's fair value and a good deal for both sides. I do like Hallander but I think it's like Kapanen with the Kessel trade. The NOW asset if more valuable to us with Sid and Geno where they are. Hallander is not going to be an impact player for us until Sid and Geno are likely gone. Zucker can be an impact player now with Sid. So in the same way I was okay giving up Kapanen for Kessel, I'm okay giving up Hallander for Zucker. It's not like it's Poulin, Addison, or Legare...even though one could argue Hallander is our best C prospect. Better take a good center in the draft...

Simmonds????? Wait........ Simmonds???? Guy should hang them up and he is the worse version of Horny as well. Fits our style like a snow fits the Africa. Thought that Empo is smarter than that. I know that he is not strongly advocating for it but just mentioning Simmonds makes me absolutely furious here. No way.

I watch NJ from time to time for Will Butcher. Simmonds is done. The fact that he makes $5mil is criminal. He may get a 4th line $1mil deal next year but as far as being an impact power forward, no. Those days are gone.

At this point they have to put Rust back on RW. If they want put Tanev on the LW and it comes to it. I would run

Simon - Sid - Tanev
Zar - Geno - Rust (This pains me so much)
Gally - Mcann - Horny
Angello - TB - Lafferty

Nah, that's too much boogering with the lines. The BART line has been a good consistent line in the face of injuries. You need that. I literally hate every one of those lines.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Pageau's problem is still that he's going to cost an arm and a leg. Centers are just always overpriced. And we have better centers than wings.

Zucker plays in Minnesota, which means I don't actually know a damn thing about him

No doubt, I think the one I heard was 2 - 2nds as the value for him. The Pens don't have clarity at the 3C position so I think it's a must evil to pay for.

Back to wingers, even Toffoli is a guy I'd choose over Zucker, but he's UFA. Oh... no...

I think people are overzealous with the cost vs UFA vs guy with term. Wasting assets. What good is a guy with term if he isn't really going to be what you need him to be in the more important season.

UFA's will still be cheaper, and the fits are what they need more.

The team weighed heavily on this stuff the first go around and why wouldn't they this time?