Proposal: PIT - VAN

[Canucks LB]

JT Miller also isn’t Patches or Eichel.

And Tatar was awful prior to being traded.

JT Miller is better

 

[Bettman Returnz]

JT Miller is better

I don’t think that should be in question… if you’re not sure if miller Is better than patches then you haven’t watched him play much.

Patches can score but miller can do pretty much everything at a high level (and even score too).

 

[Gurglesons]

JT Miller is better

I guess it depends how you feel about Pacioretty's 17-18 season and goalscoring.

I think Miller is a perfect example of how a player will produce with big minutes. Especially on the powerplay. I'm not sure what he'd do on a deeper team. But, we have a reference for it with what he did in NYR and TBL.

If Miller is moved to any contender is he playing top power play minutes?

 

[Bettman Returnz]

I guess it depends how you feel about Pacioretty's 17-18 season and goalscoring.

I think Miller is a perfect example of how a player will produce with big minutes. Especially on the powerplay. I'm not sure what he'd do on a deeper team. But, we have a reference for it with what he did in NYR and TBL.

If Miller is moved to any contender is he playing top power play minutes?

I mean he should be playing those mins. If you don’t play him that much then why bother trading for him? That’s a waste. You may as well trade for a rakell/lehkonen/hagel then.

A team like the wild could use a miller.

 

[Ita]

I guess it depends how you feel about Pacioretty's 17-18 season and goalscoring.

64G 17G 20A vs. 52G 20G 39A.

So Miller has more goals and significantly more points in far fewer games and you are still not convinced that Miller is the better player compared to Pacioretty when he was traded. I struggle to understand how you see things.

I think Miller is a perfect example of how a player will produce with big minutes.

Yea, either he produces more with more minutes, or maybe he just became a better player? I guess player development and getting better never happens in the NHL right?

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean he should be playing those mins. If you don’t play him that much then why bother trading for him? That’s a waste. You may as well trade for a rakell/lehkonen/hagel then.

A team like the wild could use a miller.

I guess. I dunno. I think they'd prefer a natural center.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

I guess. I dunno. I think they'd prefer a natural center.

Well they don’t have the cap for a Miller so it’s a non-factor. Just an example of a team being able to utilize miller as a top 6 player. A really deep team should look at slightly lesser/ cheaper options (especially if they are not going to give him the mins he deserves).

Let’s be honest, it’s unlikely Canucks move him this deadline.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

I wonder if there's any correlation between appalling trade offers and a lack of empathy? Could hfboards trade forum be a new psychopath test?

Because offers like this make me feel like OP fails to understand that other teams have needs and other people have feelings.

Says the guy who tried to gaslight people who criticized Jim Benning and less than a year ago posted "Jim Benning has done a heck of a job over recent years." Lol your credibility is terrible.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I guess it depends how you feel about Pacioretty's 17-18 season and goalscoring.

I think Miller is a perfect example of how a player will produce with big minutes. Especially on the powerplay. I'm not sure what he'd do on a deeper team. But, we have a reference for it with what he did in NYR and TBL.

If Miller is moved to any contender is he playing top power play minutes?

He had 47 points in Tampa playing on the 3rd line, averaging 14 minutes a game, doesn't that kind of speak to the fact that he can and will produce on a deeper team?

 

[Gurglesons]

64G 17G 20A vs. 52G 20G 39A.

So Miller has more goals and significantly more points in far fewer games and you are still not convinced that Miller is the better player compared to Pacioretty when he was traded. I struggle to understand how you see things.

Prior to the 17-18 season Pacioretty was a top ten goal producer in the league. He had a bad season due to a knee injury in 17-18. He was then moved in a deal predicated on him reaching that previous level.

Yea, either he produces more with more minutes, or maybe he just became a better player? I guess player development and getting better never happens in the NHL right?

Sure. JT Miller is a great player. The issue is players like Pacioretty and Eichel who were better at the time did not garner huge packages just like if JT Miller is moved he won't garner a huge package. Couple 1sts, a roster player like Kapanen or Chytil, and a prospect if you remove a 1st.

 

[Gurglesons]

He had 47 points in Tampa playing on the 3rd line, averaging 14 minutes a game, doesn't that kind of speak to the fact that he can and will produce on a deeper team?

Yes. I think Miller is a good player. I'm simply speaking to the idea that a player like Kapanen or Chytil does "nothing" for the Canucks.

Regardless of "doing nothing" the type of team that is going to acquire Miller is going to give up a frivolous roster player that Vancouver hopes ups their value and is either an asset or brings back more trade value.

There is a template for these types of trades. It's very rare to see a player moved for multiple assets of extreme value. The trading team usually either takes a future based package or a now based package so either you settle for a Kapanen for some futures or you get a better roster player with little futures. The issue with an in season trade is a lot of teams are not going to give up good roster players while trying to add for a playoff run.

This is without even adding in the Rutherford factor. Where he is on record as saying he wants both teams to win trades.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Yes. I think Miller is a good player. I'm simply speaking to the idea that a player like Kapanen or Chytil does "nothing" for the Canucks.

Regardless of "doing nothing" the type of team that is going to acquire Miller is going to give up a frivolous roster player that Vancouver hopes ups their value and is either an asset or brings back more trade value.

If your team was trading a player like Miller, who still had a 1.5 years on their contract, would Kapanen or Chytil move the needle for you?

I'm not one of those Canucks fans that thinks we will get a Laff or Rossi or Schneider or any other Blue chipper in a deal, but it should (at this point) be something that moves the needle for us, otherwise what's the point?

I actually hope we re-sign Miller he's a swiss army knife who can score, players like that are rare.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Prior to the 17-18 season Pacioretty was a top ten goal producer in the league. He had a bad season due to a knee injury in 17-18. He was then moved in a deal predicated on him reaching that previous level.



Sure. JT Miller is a great player. The issue is players like Pacioretty and Eichel who were better at the time did not garner huge packages just like if JT Miller is moved he won't garner a huge package. Couple 1sts, a roster player like Kapanen or Chytil, and a prospect if you remove a 1st.

Right now JT Miller is a top 10 point producing player, why was Patches better? Simply because he scored more goals?

 

[Gurglesons]

If your team was trading a player like Miller, who still had a 1.5 years on their contract, would Kapanen or Chytil move the needle for you?

I'm not one of those Canucks fans that thinks we will get a Laff or Rossi or Schneider or any other Blue chipper in a deal, but it should (at this point) be something that moves the needle for us, otherwise what's the point?

I actually hope we re-sign Miller he's a swiss army knife who can score, players like that are rare.

The Penguins are a contender. So they aren't moving a player like Miller. That is the issue with moving a player like Miller is you're viewing it from a contender's perspective when your GM has said he doesn't see the team as a contender.

I don't know why Vancouver would move Miller this year, I agree.

 

[Gurglesons]

Right now JT Miller is a top 10 point producing player, why was Patches better? Simply because he scored more goals?

Miller's extremely reliant on power play production this year. Patches was a premier 5v5 goal scorer when moved outside of the 17-18 season.

That would be why I think Patches was better.

 

[Ita]

Pacioretty and Eichel who were better at the time did not garner huge packages just like

This is such a disingenuous argument. Pacioretty was not a better player at that time (17-18).

Also, the Eichel argument is a complete strawman. No Canucks fans I have seen (unless they are trolls from other fanbases) made a proposal demanding more assets than what Eichel received. I don't know what huge packages you are referring to, but no sane Canucks fan would expect a package that is equal or more than what Eichel got.

Eichel's returns were also significantly better than OP's offer.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

The Penguins are a contender. So they aren't moving a player like Miller. That is the issue with moving a player like Miller is you're viewing it from a contender's perspective when your GM has said he doesn't see the team as a contender.

I don't know why Vancouver would move Miller this year, I agree.

Ok I should have been more clear, if your team was in the exact same position as the Canucks, and you had a chance to trade a player like Miller, would Chytil or Kap move the needle for you?

I'm not viewing it from a contenders perspective, I'm viewing it from a value perspective, as in if we can't get real value, they why bother.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Miller's extremely reliant on power play production this year. Patches was a premier 5v5 goal scorer when moved outside of the 17-18 season.

That would be why I think Patches was better.

So the positional advantage, ability to play PK, the grittiness, playoff production, all aren't taken into consideration?

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Ok I should have been more clear, if your team was in the exact same position as the Canucks, and you had a chance to trade a player like Miller, would Chytil or Kap move the needle for you?

Depends on if in this hypothetical, I am channeling Jim Rutherford.....

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Depends on if in this hypothetical, I am channeling Jim Rutherford.....

Wow great contribution, because I'm sure Rutherford works the same way no matter what team he is in charge of.........

 

[Gurglesons]

Ok I should have been more clear, if your team was in the exact same position as the Canucks, and you had a chance to trade a player like Miller, would Chytil or Kap move the needle for you?

I'm not viewing it from a contenders perspective, I'm viewing it from a value perspective, as in if we can't get real value, they why bother.

If I'm moving JT Miller in season, I'm assuming a contender is who he is getting traded to and that I'm likely going to have to take back cap. I'd target a player that is somewhat in the age group of my core and has some upside. So yes. Chytil or Kap would likely be someone I'd assume is coming back.

 

[Gurglesons]

Wow great contribution, because I'm sure Rutherford works the same way no matter what team he is in charge of.........

Rutherford's been a GM for 30 years. His trends are pretty easy to view. He is notorious for his shotgun style trading.

Good luck though.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

If I'm moving JT Miller in season, I'm assuming a contender is who he is getting traded to and that I'm likely going to have to take back cap. I'd target a player that is somewhat in the age group of my core and has some upside. So yes. Chytil or Kap would likely be someone I'd assume is coming back.

Wasn't my question.

 

[Flying Dego]

Wow great contribution, because I'm sure Rutherford works the same way no matter what team he is in charge of.........

In fairness JR has always been a wildcard in his trades as a GM. He's not a shrewd guy. He finds players he really likes and gets them regardless of winning a trade.

I don't believe the Pens get Miller...but if he really wants a guy or two that he had hand picked from the Pens. You never know.

He absolutely loves retread players.

 

[Gurglesons]

So the positional advantage, ability to play PK, the grittiness, playoff production, all aren't taken into consideration?

You just started watching JT Miller huh?