Confirmed with Link: PIT (Sheary & Rodrigues) | BUF (Kahun)

[LOGiK]

Oh and @pixiesfanyo 's point about Kahun's points coming when McCann's line was the 2nd line - absolutely. And it was getting soft assignments, there was a pretty prolonged period where Kahun had our easiest match-ups by a decent chalk. Tearing apart the opposition there, and doing it through sky high shooting percentages rather than driving play, needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. I'm still not sure I like this trade but if the team thought Kahun wasn't going to make it in the top 6 here and that the cushy role he had with McCann wouldn't exist in future, I get it. I'm not sure I agree with it but there's a pretty solid argument there.

He's gone. What else is there to talk about?

 

[Gurglesons]

Oh and @pixiesfanyo 's point about Kahun's points coming when McCann's line was the 2nd line - absolutely. And it was getting soft assignments, there was a pretty prolonged period where Kahun had our easiest match-ups by a decent chalk. Tearing apart the opposition there, and doing it through sky high shooting percentages rather than driving play, needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. I'm still not sure I like this trade but if the team thought Kahun wasn't going to make it in the top 6 here and that the cushy role he had with McCann wouldn't exist in future, I get it. I'm not sure I agree with it but there's a pretty solid argument there.

Light ‘um up fellow person that doesn’t like Sheary and really liked Kahun but is defending this deal now.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

The whole thing would makes more sense if guentzels timeframes was shorter. Everything would alot soooooo much better

 

[trooper66]

Does anyone know what the stipulation is if the pens get to round 2 and guentzel can return “cap wise”?

 

[StaalForOne]

As far as I recall the Salary Cap is completely irrelevant once the playoffs start.

 

[Peat]

As far as I recall the Salary Cap is completely irrelevant once the playoffs start.

Affirmative. The issue there is when Guentzel gets back, not the cap.

 

[Turin]

Light ‘um up fellow person that doesn’t like Sheary and really liked Kahun but is defending this deal now.

This is why Peaty is my favourite.

 

[Tom Hanks]

This is why Peaty is my favourite.

Peaty? You sold a dead bird to a blind kid

 

[SEALBound]

Affirmative. The issue there is when Guentzel gets back, not the cap.

I mean, he got hurt on 12/31/2019 and it's a 6 month injury recovery.

I don't think we have to worry.

 

[Peat]

I mean, he got hurt on 12/31/2019 and it's a 6 month injury recovery.

I don't think we have to worry.

4 to 6. Not a done deal.

 

[DearDiary]

Does anyone know what the stipulation is if the pens get to round 2 and guentzel can return “cap wise”?

theres no cap in the playoffs

 

[Tom Hanks]

theres no cap in the playoffs

 

[Gurglesons]

theres no cap in the playoffs

*Caps

 

[Tom Hanks]

Now Sheary is a Pen again does he have to give up his 2nd job?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Now Sheary is a Pen again does he have to give up his 2nd job?

Pens should just change their intro song to the Benny Hill Theme, between Simon coughing up the puck after holding onto it too long, Pettersson's gaffe's and Sheary falling...

Makes sense.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I was pissed about the trade when it happened because it seemed like bad value for the Penguins, but I don't know if I'm just overvaluing Kahun. After all, he was traded straight up for Maatta in the off-season and it can be legitimately argued that Maatta was near a cap dump last off-season. I don't know how Kahun is viewed in the NHL because there's a huge range for how wingers like Kahun are viewed. I think Kahun is fairly comparable to Burakovsky and Heinen, who both brought back solid returns (2nd and 3rd for Burakovsky, Ritchie for Heinen), but I could also see him being valued at much less than that.

Is Kahun viewed as being on par with Burakovsky and Heinen, or is he viewed to be more on par with guys like Vesey (traded for a 3rd last summer) and Shore (traded for a struggling Cogliano a year ago)? I'm honestly not sure.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I was pissed about the trade when it happened because it seemed like bad value for the Penguins, but I don't know if I'm just overvaluing Kahun. After all, he was traded straight up for Maatta in the off-season and it can be legitimately argued that Maatta was near a cap dump last off-season. I don't know how Kahun is viewed in the NHL because there's a huge range for how wingers like Kahun are viewed. I think Kahun is fairly comparable to Burakovsky and Heinen, who both brought back solid returns (2nd and 3rd for Burakovsky, Ritchie for Heinen), but I could also see him being valued at much less than that.

Is Kahun viewed as being on par with Burakovsky and Heinen, or is he viewed to be more on par with guys like Vesey (traded for a 3rd last summer) and Shore (traded for a struggling Cogliano a year ago)? I'm honestly not sure.

Chicago were pretty desperate for a steady D man so I think that trade was more opportunistic.

Kahun still has some upside and if he doesn’t progress much more he’s still a good player. I can see him getting a bit better though even if it’s just playing at his highest levels more consistently.

Each team can have varied views on a player too.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I was pissed about the trade when it happened because it seemed like bad value for the Penguins, but I don't know if I'm just overvaluing Kahun. After all, he was traded straight up for Maatta in the off-season and it can be legitimately argued that Maatta was near a cap dump last off-season. I don't know how Kahun is viewed in the NHL because there's a huge range for how wingers like Kahun are viewed. I think Kahun is fairly comparable to Burakovsky and Heinen, who both brought back solid returns (2nd and 3rd for Burakovsky, Ritchie for Heinen), but I could also see him being valued at much less than that.

Is Kahun viewed as being on par with Burakovsky and Heinen, or is he viewed to be more on par with guys like Vesey (traded for a 3rd last summer) and Shore (traded for a struggling Cogliano a year ago)? I'm honestly not sure.

I saw us getting a 2nd for Kahun if we shopped him this offseason. I've seen a lot of Burakovsky and don't think Kahun is as good, but a 2nd is obviously less than a 2nd and 3rd.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

But Buffalo is just an awful place to try and judge things in. It's where hockey success goes to die.

And 17-18 was a really bad year for Sid, or at least the first half was. Everybody could see it, everybody suffered from it. We finally found out how much hockey and success it took to sate the Sidbot that year as he was visibly not trying. Perimeter player.

We all recognize that Crosby had a down year in '17-'18, and Buffalo sucks. What we disagree on is whether Sheary was a victim of those circumstances or a contributor to them.

Is Sheary going to start leading the league in p/60 again? Probably not, but there's a huge gap between that year and the next. There's a lot of space in the middle, and maybe that's where Sheary lives at a non-awful hockey club.

Anyway. In 17-18, Sheary had

14 points in 528.28 minutes with Sid - 1.59 p/60
5 points in 222.21 minutes with Sheahan - 1.35 p/60
3 points in 70.19 minutes with Brassard - 2.56 p/60
2 points in 77.19 minutes with Malkin - 1.55 p/60

And non-C
8 points in 283.07 minutes with Hornqvist - 1.69 p/60

Thanks for calculating those, much appreciated.

These numbers do undermine one of the main arguments for Sheary though, that he produced in the top 6 and Kahun didn't. It's true that Kahun was much more productive in the bottom 6 than he was with Malkin...but he was still more productive with Malkin this year (1.89 P/60) than Sheary was with Crosby in '17-'18 (1.59 P/60).

I mention Horny because I'll be pushing that a lot. Sheary and Horny have chemistry. All this talk of Sid liking Sheary makes me a little nervous (although I can see it working). But Sheary and Horny as a 3rd line wing pairing? That's got potential.

Realistically I don't see why anyone should be happy with Sheary's 17-18 here. He blew it. The extent to which it is predictive of today I don't know though.

I dunno man, these justifications only seem to get more wobbly.

People should be nervous about Sid liking Sheary, and Sheary being put on the 1st line during his initial line rushes. This is in all likelihood going to be a regular thing, with an exceptionally long leash, like the last time he was here. That's why he was so frustrating and that's why I was happy to see him go the first time.

 

[SEALBound]

4 to 6. Not a done deal.

While it's the playoffs and the cup and all that, they are not going to sacrifice Jake's long term shoulder health, especially when game 1 back is a playoff game. He may get a conditioning stint in the AHL but who knows.

I think you're looking at mid April before he starts to skate with it and May before he takes contact. So if we are still in it by mid-May, I will concede that there's a chance. But I don't think it's at all likely.

 

[Gurglesons]

We all recognize that Crosby had a down year in '17-'18, and Buffalo sucks. What we disagree on is whether Sheary was a victim of those circumstances or a contributor to them.



Thanks for calculating those, much appreciated.

These numbers do undermine one of the main arguments for Sheary though, that he produced in the top 6 and Kahun didn't. It's true that Kahun was much more productive in the bottom 6 than he was with Malkin...but he was still more productive with Malkin this year (1.89 P/60) than Sheary was with Crosby in '17-'18 (1.59 P/60).



I dunno man, these justifications only seem to get more wobbly.

People should be nervous about Sid liking Sheary, and Sheary being put on the 1st line during his initial line rushes. This is in all likelihood going to be a regular thing, with an exceptionally long leash, like the last time he was here. That's why he was so frustrating and that's why I was happy to see him go the first time.

If it had such a long leash why was Sheary demoted in two of the last playoffs he played here?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If it had such a long leash why was Sheary demoted in two of the last playoffs he played here?

It took an exceptionally long time for him to get there, particularly '17-'18. An exceptionally long leash is not an endless leash.

That's not the meat of this post, though, which is that Kahun was actually a fair bit more productive with Geno this season than Sheary was with Sid in '17-18, contrary to the idea that Sheary represents some sort of upgrade in a top 6 role.

 

[EightyOne]

If it had such a long leash why was Sheary demoted in two of the last playoffs he played here?

Come on, now. Don't be that obtuse.

 

[Gurglesons]

Come on, now. Don't be that obtuse.

What is obtuse about the fact Sheary didn’t have a long leash and was consistently bumped down the line up in every playoff run?

I don’t understand how people don’t get Sid wanted someone he is comfortable with because Jake is injured. And we liked Rodrigues’s game rightfully so. If Rodrigues forces ZAR out of the line up is it worth the endless butt chugging about how Sheary and Kahun are marginally different offensively outside of raw point production which is one of the most random stats in the game?

 

[Darren McCord]

I was pissed about the trade when it happened because it seemed like bad value for the Penguins, but I don't know if I'm just overvaluing Kahun. After all, he was traded straight up for Maatta in the off-season and it can be legitimately argued that Maatta was near a cap dump last off-season. I don't know how Kahun is viewed in the NHL because there's a huge range for how wingers like Kahun are viewed. I think Kahun is fairly comparable to Burakovsky and Heinen, who both brought back solid returns (2nd and 3rd for Burakovsky, Ritchie for Heinen), but I could also see him being valued at much less than that.

Is Kahun viewed as being on par with Burakovsky and Heinen, or is he viewed to be more on par with guys like Vesey (traded for a 3rd last summer) and Shore (traded for a struggling Cogliano a year ago)? I'm honestly not sure.

I think Burakovsky is above all of them easily. Big body only 25 and has 190 points in the NHL.
Heinen is ok and Boston seemed happy he is gone. He is only 24 but has proven way less. Kahun might be good but he has proven himself the least out of any of them.

Burakovsky

Ritchie
Heinen
Kahun
Vesey