Confirmed Trade: [PIT/FLA] Colton Sceviour and Mike Matheson for Patric Hornqvist

Ugene Magic

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I think his nickname bumps him up a few more notches.
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LRS87

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Oct 7, 2020
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Hornqvist to be fair wouldnt have a spot though. Would have liked a 3rd round pick and the cap space better though.
 

violaswallet

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Hornqvist to be fair wouldnt have a spot though. Would have liked a 3rd round pick and the cap space better though.
To be fair, the value of that cap space right now is like a first rounder but I agree: JR was stupid

I think Florida needed Horny more for his intangible value than his tangible value: he sets the tone in a way I haven’t seen since Mitchell/Jagr
 
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Just confirming....... Ruthford has targeted

Jack Johnson
Erik Gudbranson
Cody Ceci
Mike Matheson

those were all under his watch?

And

Marcus Pettersson
John Marino
Ian Cole
Trevor Daley
Jamie Oleksiak (neutral)
Jusso Riikola

But yeah...keep cherry picking. I mean, I get your point but at least attempt to make your post not agenda driven and biased.
 

theicebox

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Just confirming....... Ruthford has targeted

Jack Johnson
Erik Gudbranson
Cody Ceci
Mike Matheson

those were all under his watch?

We also got:

Justin Schultz (for 3rd round pick)
John Marino (for 6th round pick)
Trevor Daley (for Rob Scuderi)
Marcus Pettersson (for Daniel Sprong)
Ian Cole (for Robert Bortuzzo)
Ron Hainsey (FA)

He's made some excellent moves as well on defense.
 
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violaswallet

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Apr 8, 2019
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We also got:

Justin Schultz (for 3rd round pick)
John Marino (for 6th round pick)
Trevor Daley (for Rob Scuderi)
Marcus Pettersson (for Daniel Sprong)
Ian Cole (for Robert Bortuzzo)
Ron Hainsey (FA)

He's made some excellent moves as well on defense.
The only inexcusable moves are the moves with a long term cap hit: Johnson and Matheson. It’s fine to take risks on players for a couple years; locking in players for five + at contract values at their peak reasonable performance is bad
 

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The only inexcusable moves are the moves with a long term cap hit: Johnson and Matheson. It’s fine to take risks on players for a couple years; locking in players for five + at contract values at their peak reasonable performance is bad

At this time, I would say only Johnson. That was bad going in. Matheson at least has redeeming qualities that make the trade more than tolerable. I will give him more than 2 god damn games though before I make a final judgment.
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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The only inexcusable moves are the moves with a long term cap hit: Johnson and Matheson. It’s fine to take risks on players for a couple years; locking in players for five + at contract values at their peak reasonable performance is bad

Yeah, I think this is fair. JR deserves criticism with the defense because he's screwed up with multiple defenseman with term. I don't include Matheson in that group yet, but I do have Johnson and Hunwick in that group.

Like he had Gudbranson for 20 games, where he was really good for the Penguins, and then they traded his contract for no money back. The Ceci deal is a dirt cheap 1 year deal. What's the problem there?
 

violaswallet

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Apr 8, 2019
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At this time, I would say only Johnson. That was bad going in. Matheson at least has redeeming qualities that make the trade more than tolerable. I will give him more than 2 god damn games though before I make a final judgment.
I’m a Florida fan: I’ve watched him his entire career.

His issue is the cap hit for six more years. He would
Be an interesting player like the others you named if he wasn’t paid near 5M for six years.

Be optimistic but ex ante his contract makes it difficult especially in a flat cap environment
 

violaswallet

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Apr 8, 2019
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Yeah, I think this is fair. JR deserves criticism with the defense because he's screwed up with multiple defenseman with term. I don't include Matheson in that group yet, but I do have Johnson and Hunwick in that group.

Like he had Gudbranson for 20 games, where he was really good for the Penguins, and then they traded his contract for no money back. The Ceci deal is a dirt cheap 1 year deal. What's the problem there?
I get wanting to wait on Matheson but here is my problem: think about the distribution of outcomes. Fix the 95 percentile outcome: would he be worth this contract for that! His 95th percentile outcome right now is probably a speedy 4-5 defenseman with some defensive concerns; that’s why his contract is bad ex ante. His cap is about 5 and he is making more in cash.

Maybe you think Horny has exceptional negative value which can make the acquisition more feasible. In this UFA environment however, he would have been the third highest paid UFA D by total cash invested and fourth in terms of cap hit
 

PensandCaps

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Hornqvist to be fair wouldnt have a spot though. Would have liked a 3rd round pick and the cap space better though.

Lol what? Hornqvist would absolutely have a spot. Don't think the Pens are sitting a 20 goal scoring winger for Evan Rodriguez.

Especially because of his value on the Powerplay.

Really don't get why Pens fans think he was washed when he had 17 Goals , 32 Points in 57 games. laughable to say he is "declining"
 
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Gurglesons

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I get wanting to wait on Matheson but here is my problem: think about the distribution of outcomes. Fix the 95 percentile outcome: would he be worth this contract for that! His 95th percentile outcome right now is probably a speedy 4-5 defenseman with some defensive concerns; that’s why his contract is bad ex ante. His cap is about 5 and he is making more in cash.

Maybe you think Horny has exceptional negative value which can make the acquisition more feasible. In this UFA environment however, he would have been the third highest paid UFA D by total cash invested and fourth in terms of cap hit

I mean, I imagine if Matheson was a UFA he would’ve gotten the Gustafsson deal if not more.
 

cvrle1

Registered User
Jun 24, 2017
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Just confirming....... Ruthford has targeted

Jack Johnson
Erik Gudbranson
Cody Ceci
Mike Matheson

those were all under his watch?

Gudbranson was actually quite serviceable player, and fit well. He was also only sand paper that Pens had, that didnt mid dropping the gloves when need be. Issue is that Sullivan doesnt like those types of players, just like he didnt like Reves, so he ended up being used sparingly. When Sulli has it out for you, no matter how you play, you will be in the dog house. And if he has a hard on for you, you can do no wrong and will play top line minutes, even though on every other team you would be 3rd line player at best.
 

Extra Texture

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No surprise Hornqvist is ripping it up in his new home. He never should've been traded in the first place, despite the fact that he was slowing down and had a pretty expensive deal for a few more years. That's the kind of player when, even if he isnt scoring on the PP (which he usually is), he is a massive locker room presence, and a superb teammate. So happy he is showing his value, he's a warrior and deserves all the plaudits. I think he was one of the biggest factors in the Pens turnaround before the cups.

The fact that he was traded for an even worse contract is inexcusable. This was handled like some "boat anchor for boat anchor" deal, like PH was some unmovable dead weight. But no, he had to go back to his old fetish of "rehabbing a PMD defenseman". He just couldnt leave it alone.And then he doubled down by wasting what precious cap space he had on Ceci. Two rehabs for the price of one!

I havent given up on Matheson after only a few games, especially when the whole team has looked like poop. But if this guy never gets going in our system, and remains a liability, I hope there's a compliance buyout or a expansion draft bribe to Seattle in his future. And if it comes to that, I'm guessing Rutherford will be long gone too.
 
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Extra Texture

A new career
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We also got:

Justin Schultz (for 3rd round pick)
John Marino (for 6th round pick)
Trevor Daley (for Rob Scuderi)
Marcus Pettersson (for Daniel Sprong)
Ian Cole (for Robert Bortuzzo)
Ron Hainsey (FA)

He's made some excellent moves as well on defense.
Numbers wise, his successes clearly outweight his failures. And even when they were not so good like Oleksiak, Gudbranson, the cost to move them on was surprisingly small.

We had to pay to get rid of Hunwick, and we're still paying for Jack Johnson, but ultimately only the Matheson one has the potential to burn us for a long time.
 

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Numbers wise, his successes clearly outweight his failures. And even when they were not so good like Oleksiak, Gudbranson, the cost to move them on was surprisingly small.

We had to pay to get rid of Hunwick, and we're still paying for Jack Johnson, but ultimately only the Matheson one has the potential to burn us for a long time.

Oleksiak and Gudbranson were washes. Short lived so whatever.

Hunwick was great until he got concussed. Then we had to pay to get rid of him AND Sheary to be fair. Sheary was a redundant $3mil winger at the time.

I don't fault JR for Hunwick and any objective person likely doesn't either.
 

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