Proposal: PIT - DAL (Kessel)

[ColbyChaos]

Radulov would probably narrow the gap in pts between him and Kessel in Pit's system and powerplay while Kessel would probably see a dip.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Radulov would probably narrow the gap in pts between him and Kessel in Pit's system and powerplay while Kessel would probably see a dip.

With Dallas's anemic offense, Kessel would almost certainly see a dip in production.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Seems like too lateral of a move.

I think if the Penguins move Kessel it *should* be for both futures and to possibly dump some salary (like throw Johnson into the deal), and to then use that salary in free agency and the futures to extend their cup window.

Yup. The only Kessel trade scenario I really like is you move him for a late lottery pick with a FA deal for a similar caliber player in Stone or Panarin in place.

I really think people underrate how important he is.

 

[Habs10025]

Phil Kessel - NMC
(RW | 31 y/o 6.8M through 2022)
2018-2019: 21G 41A| 62pts


Alexander Radulov - NMC
(RW | 32 y/o 6.25M through 2022)
2012-2019: 15G 31A| 46pts


Both clubs have expressed interest in what each player represents. Dallas has expressed interest in finding a goal scorer(s) and Pittsburgh [management] has expressed interest all year about getting a power forward.

Seems more of a summer theoretical but wonder how conflicted the consensus would be. From the Pens perspective: Radulov has chemistry with Geno and would slot nicely on any of the first three lines. Would also be less of a defensive liability than the Kessel/Geno pairing.

Pittsburgh wouldn't make that trade .

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

Phil Kessel - NMC
(RW | 31 y/o 6.8M through 2022)
2018-2019: 21G 41A| 62pts


Alexander Radulov - NMC
(RW | 32 y/o 6.25M through 2022)
2012-2019: 15G 31A| 46pts


Both clubs have expressed interest in what each player represents. Dallas has expressed interest in finding a goal scorer(s) and Pittsburgh [management] has expressed interest all year about getting a power forward.

Seems more of a summer theoretical but wonder how conflicted the consensus would be. From the Pens perspective: Radulov has chemistry with Geno and would slot nicely on any of the first three lines. Would also be less of a defensive liability than the Kessel/Geno pairing.

Kessel Seguin and Hintz on the top line? Color me intrigued.

 

[cspera777]

This is an underpay of massive proportions from Dallas. Maybe add a 1st and a good prospect and we can start talking.

Phil Kessel - NMC
(RW | 31 y/o 6.8M through 2022)
2018-2019: 21G 41A| 62pts


Alexander Radulov - NMC
(RW | 32 y/o 6.25M through 2022)
2012-2019: 15G 31A| 46pts


Both clubs have expressed interest in what each player represents. Dallas has expressed interest in finding a goal scorer(s) and Pittsburgh [management] has expressed interest all year about getting a power forward.

Seems more of a summer theoretical but wonder how conflicted the consensus would be. From the Pens perspective: Radulov has chemistry with Geno and would slot nicely on any of the first three lines. Would also be less of a defensive liability than the Kessel/Geno pairing.

 

[cspera777]

Radulov is not even in the same discussion as Kessel. Period, end of story.

Lol no he isn't.

Rads has 32 5v5 points in 48 games.

Kessel has 37 5v5 points in 59 games. And sucks defensively.

I'd argue that Rads is the better player.

 

[PensandCaps]

Radulov is not even in the same discussion as Kessel. Period, end of story.

Provide evidence.

I just proved you wrong. You're wrong. Its a fact.

 

[PensandCaps]

Rads is easily the better 5v5 player. Pens do that deal.

 

[OCPenguin]

Phil Kessel - NMC
(RW | 31 y/o 6.8M through 2022)
2018-2019: 21G 41A| 62pts


Alexander Radulov - NMC
(RW | 32 y/o 6.25M through 2022)
2012-2019: 15G 31A| 46pts


Both clubs have expressed interest in what each player represents. Dallas has expressed interest in finding a goal scorer(s) and Pittsburgh [management] has expressed interest all year about getting a power forward.

Seems more of a summer theoretical but wonder how conflicted the consensus would be. From the Pens perspective: Radulov has chemistry with Geno and would slot nicely on any of the first three lines. Would also be less of a defensive liability than the Kessel/Geno pairing.

So, Pittsburgh is getting an older player that isn't as good IMO. You better be getting a package in return for Kessel, not a muddy ARad. Pittsburgh passes

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Kessel is twice the player Radulov is. Why would Pens do this?

 

[The Tourist]

I love watching Kessel but as a Dallas fan I'll pass. Radulov has 46 points in 49 games playing in an offense that struggles big time. He is a work horse on every shift and can play in a lot more situations than Kessel. Kessel is the better goal scorer and faster but I think Rads is the better 5v5 player.

Dallas needs to add offense to what they have, not add offense while also removing offense.

 

[PensandCaps]

5v5 points over the last two years

Rads: 82 points in 131 games
Kessel: 87 points in 142 games


How is Kessel better ?

They produce the same and Radulov is a better defensive player. And would fit Crosby and Malkin better.

 

[wej20]

Radulov would probably narrow the gap in pts between him and Kessel in Pit's system and powerplay while Kessel would probably see a dip.

Maybe but the reason that Kessel works so well for the Pens on the PP is that he's on the opposite side of the ice to Crosby and Malkin.

 

[KIRK]

Intriguing, but probably a no.

How about Benn for Malkin and a 5th in 2020?

Was going to say 'yes' until you added the 5th.

 

[96]

5v5 points over the last two years

Rads: 82 points in 131 games
Kessel: 87 points in 142 games


How is Kessel better ?

They produce the same and Radulov is a better defensive player. And would fit Crosby and Malkin better.

Every time u say rads I cringe

 

[PensandCaps]

Every time u say rads I cringe

Rads is rad

 

[Eegs]

I "met" Radulov at the McDonalds in Hermitage TN before he was flying out. I ran into him as he held a Big Mac in his right hand and napkins in his left hand. His face was covered in sauce and his mouth was open with masticated BigMac inside. He looked to be going for more napkins. Our faces almost touched.

I'll never forget that image.

I think we all could have guessed that not only would Rads fancy the Big Mac, but that he would also be a terribly messy eater.

 

[PensandCaps]

Was going to say 'yes' until you added the 5th.

You mean you DON'T want a sub PPG declining winger for an elite top 10 player?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Radulov is a good player, but the Penguins would never do this deal. Radulov plays the vast majority of his minutes alongside Seguin.

It's a good combo. But Radulov is pretty dependant on Seguin for production.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

The entire reason the Pens got Kessel was to stretch the lineup. He's proven he can handle his own line. Yes, he's struggled recently. But there is clear evidence (2016 and 2017 Cup runs) that he can drive his own line.

That makes him vitally important given the injury histories for Crosby and Malkin. If one of them goes out, Kessel can be the driving force on Line 2.

The Pens are in win-now mode. They'll trade Kessel when the cap gets too tight. In that situation, they'll trade for younger players with promise who can fill other spots on the roster. A player who is the similar age and contract hit like Radulov won't even be on the radar.

I expect that to be the summer before the 2020-2021 season. The Pens can move enough for next year (Pearson, Maatta, Johnson). But heading into 2020-2021, they'll have to deal with a free agent Justin Schultz, a few RFAs (including the promising Jared McCann), and have a few other holes to fill.

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

Radulov is a good player, but the Penguins would never do this deal. Radulov plays the vast majority of his minutes alongside Seguin.

It's a good combo. But Radulov is pretty dependant on Seguin for production.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

The entire reason the Pens got Kessel was to stretch the lineup. He's proven he can handle his own line. Yes, he's struggled recently. But there is clear evidence (2016 and 2017 Cup runs) that he can drive his own line.

That makes him vitally important given the injury histories for Crosby and Malkin. If one of them goes out, Kessel can be the driving force on Line 2.

The Pens are in win-now mode. They'll trade Kessel when the cap gets too tight. In that situation, they'll trade for younger players with promise who can fill other spots on the roster. A player who is the similar age and contract hit like Radulov won't even be on the radar.

I expect that to be the summer before the 2020-2021 season. The Pens can move enough for next year (Pearson, Maatta, Johnson). But heading into 2020-2021, they'll have to deal with a free agent Justin Schultz, a few RFAs (including the promising Jared McCann), and have a few other holes to fill.

Radulov is a pretty damn good set-up guy and uses his size very well to make that happen. He doesn't rely on Seguin at all. Looks like you don't see him play all that much.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Radulov is a pretty damn good set-up guy and uses his size very well to make that happen. He doesn't rely on Seguin at all. Looks like you don't see him play all that much.

Radulov has played more with Seguin and Benn than any other Stars forward this year.

Alexander Radulov - Teammates - On Ice - Natural Stat Trick

His production drops significantly without them 5-on-5. And while their production also drops without him, it doesn't drop as severely as his. He's a good player. They all benefit from playing together. But he's pretty dependent on them for production, because without them, he's not nearly as productive.

Compare that with Kessel, who actually has a better Goals For % when he's NOT on Evgeni Malkin's line. (It's an odd relationship - Malkin has stronger possession stats without Kessel, but that doesn't translate to goals)

Phil Kessel - Teammates - On Ice - Natural Stat Trick

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

Radulov has played more with Seguin and Benn than any other Stars forward this year.

Alexander Radulov - Teammates - On Ice - Natural Stat Trick

His production drops significantly without them 5-on-5. And while their production also drops without him, it doesn't drop as severely as his. He's a good player. They all benefit from playing together. But he's pretty dependent on them for production, because without them, he's not nearly as productive.

Compare that with Kessel, who actually has a better Goals For % when he's NOT on Evgeni Malkin's line. (It's an odd relationship - Malkin has stronger possession stats without Kessel, but that doesn't translate to goals)

Phil Kessel - Teammates - On Ice - Natural Stat Trick

I think this will be futile, but here it is for the last time

Thanks for that explanation without accounting for the horrendously anemic production from anyone besides Seguin and Radulov (whom also haven't been their last season best, btw) on the forward lines. Almost every one is snake bit in terms of production and the entire squad is playing a defensive dump and chase game. It's immaterial how good/bad Kessel-Malkin are. You clearly don't know or watch the Stars...period.

Radulov is capable of creating his own offense...period and doesn't need Seguin...period.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I think this will be futile, but here it is for the last time

Thanks for that explanation without accounting for the horrendously anemic production from anyone besides Seguin and Radulov (whom also haven't been their last season best, btw) on the forward lines. Almost every one is snake bit in terms of production and the entire squad is playing a defensive dump and chase game. It's immaterial how good/bad Kessel-Malkin are. You clearly don't know or watch the Stars...period.

Radulov is capable of creating his own offense...period and doesn't need Seguin...period.

The numbers are similar for last season and for Radulov's season in Montreal.

Alexander Radulov - Teammates - On Ice - Natural Stat Trick

Whether he's with Tyler Seguin, Jamie Benn, or Max Pacioretty, Radulov benefits significantly from playing with them. While both he and those particular players take a hit when separated, Radulov typically sees his production drop more than the others. Benn and Seguin each have better goal production and possession stats away from Radulov the past TWO seasons than Radulov has away from them. Paciorretty had better possession stats, but not better goal production, away from Radulov than Radulov had away from Patches.

Ultimately, Radulov is a guy who makes other good players better. But he's also incredibly reliable on those good players to keep his production going. If the Penguins needed a winger to play with Crosby or Malkin, he'd be a fit. But the Penguins don't need that. They need someone who is capable of carrying his own line, away from Malkin and Crosby, in the playoffs. Radulov doesn't provide that.

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

The numbers are similar for last season and for Radulov's season in Montreal.

Alexander Radulov - Teammates - On Ice - Natural Stat Trick

Whether he's with Tyler Seguin, Jamie Benn, or Max Pacioretty, Radulov benefits significantly from playing with them. While both he and those particular players take a hit when separated, Radulov typically sees his production drop more than the others. Benn and Seguin each have better goal production and possession stats away from Radulov the past TWO seasons than Radulov has away from them. Paciorretty had better possession stats, but not better goal production, away from Radulov than Radulov had away from Patches.

Ultimately, Radulov is a guy who makes other good players better. But he's also incredibly reliable on those good players to keep his production going. If the Penguins needed a winger to play with Crosby or Malkin, he'd be a fit. But the Penguins don't need that. They need someone who is capable of carrying his own line, away from Malkin and Crosby, in the playoffs. Radulov doesn't provide that.

You don't watch the team. You simply stat watch.

Last year also was a low event system with Hitchcock in the Stars with the team struggling to find offense besides the top line. This year is even worse than last. You keep ignoring the systems in which they play and the quality of players besides the top 3 and simply throw numbers without context.

You put Kessel in our system with Cogliano and Janmark or (worse) Nichushkin on his line and he is bound to see a drop in production too.