Confirmed Signing with Link: [PIT] D John Marino signs extension (6 years, $4.4M AAV)

[Gurglesons]

Or maybe you're over rating how good Marino is after a very small sample? I also never thought Zaitsev was all that great, but his best year was his rookie season and Toronto gambled on him improving/at least staying as good.

They ended up having to take Cody Ceci and give up Brown just to rid of his contract. Pens fans refusing to acknowledge that him peaking during this small sample just like many players have is very strange.

Zaitsev peaked offensively and was a mess at everything Marino is great at.

You seem to be confusing raw point totals with being a good defenseman.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Zaitsev peaked offensively and was a mess at everything Marino is great at.

You seem to be confusing raw point totals with being a good defenseman.

Nope you seem to be missing my point entirely.

Dont use Zaitsev then. Use Skinner or Nyquist or Matheson or Ericsson or Myers or Ghost or Raycroft or Spooner or Prucha or any other player who looked great after their first season (or even 2/3 season for Marino) but then faded. Those could have all been bad contracts if they signed them long term after their first year.

The entire point is there is a pretty big risk when you give a big/long contract to a player based on 50 games

 

[Regal]

Tell that to Leaf fans who were ecstatic with his signing and went on to call him the best UFA signing of all time...

Again im not saying this was a bad gamble but there are so many Pens fans calling this a "steal" or that there's no way this back fires.

Other posters are just simply pointing out other players who looked good at first and then flamed out. When you're basing a players contract solely off of ~50 games there is absolutely a risk associated with this

I mean Leafs fans overrating their players isn't exactly new.

I agree that there's risk here, but a lot of players who had those contracts like Zaitsev's that didn't pan out, there's something in the underlying numbers we can point to that suggested the decline. Either they rode hot percentages or played easier minutes or had a good partner, etc. With Marino that doesn't seem to be the case, which is why the risk likely isn't in the realm of the bad contracts we've seen in the past

 

[crab]

The contract is a very good deal for the Penguins and worth the risk if you don’t consider the Penguins current situation.

With that said, it doesn’t really make sense to take the risk when the Penguins window will be firmly shut in two years.

 

[Gurglesons]

Nope you seem to be missing my point entirely.

Dont use Zaitsev then. Use Skinner or Nyquist or Matheson or Ericsson or Myers or Ghost or Raycroft or Spooner or Prucha or any other player who looked great after their first season (or even 2/3 season for Marino) but then faded. Those could have all been bad contracts if they signed them long term after their first year.

The entire point is there is a pretty big risk when you give a big/long contract to a player based on 50 games

So, use a bunch of offensive only forwards or defensemen?

Marino got this contract because he was elite defensively and chipped in transitionally to the Penguins. Could he go from being one of the best analytical defensemen in the game last year to one that isn't? Sure, but I doubt we see it because he did it with Jack Johnson and while playing top pairing minutes.

 

[Gurglesons]

The contract is a very good deal for the Penguins and worth the risk if you don’t consider the Penguins current situation.

With that said, it doesn’t really make sense to take the risk when the Penguins window will be firmly shut in two years.

Why is the Penguins window firmly shut in two years exactly?

 

[BHD]

Didn’t expect to see Marino being compared to Zaitsev of all players.

 

[Knies iT]

Tell that to Leaf fans who were ecstatic with his signing and went on to call him the best UFA signing of all time...

Again im not saying this was a bad gamble but there are so many Pens fans calling this a "steal" or that there's no way this back fires.

Other posters are just simply pointing out other players who looked good at first and then flamed out. When you're basing a players contract solely off of ~50 games there is absolutely a risk associated with this

Show proof of multiple Leaf fans (plural) calling Zaitsev the best UFA of all-time.

As per usual, you post non-sense.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So there's no possible scenario he falls back to bottom pairing D?

The risk is very, very small given that Marino's best attributes (skating, smarts) are things that typically you don't see in guys who regress or never surpass being a bottom pairing d-man.

The last Pens defenseman who regressed after a promising start was Olli Maatta. But the main differences between him and Marino are a]thyroid cancer messing with his strength/conditioning training and b]Maatta was always a mediocre skater to begin with. And even he, despite his slug-like skating, remained a #4/5 defenseman for the bulk of his "down" years.

When is the last time a defenseman with good wheels and good hockey IQ regressed lower than a second pairing guy? I can't think of any. The ones that do usually have glaring flaws (ie. slow skating or don't process the game well enough).

 

[nbwingsfan]

So, use a bunch of offensive only forwards or defensemen?

Marino got this contract because he was elite defensively and chipped in transitionally to the Penguins. Could he go from being one of the best analytical defensemen in the game last year to one that isn't? Sure, but I doubt we see it because he did it with Jack Johnson and while playing top pairing minutes.

Top pairing minutes? Even strength he was third, playing between 10seconds and 20 seconds more than Johnson/Shultz/Pettersson.

Since when are Myers, Matheson and Jonathan Ericsson "offensive only" D? :Laugh: Ericsson is the opposite as offensive. I can add way more to the list if youd like

 

[nbwingsfan]

Show proof of multiple Leaf fans (plural) calling Zaitsev the best UFA of all-time.

As per usual, you post non-sense.

There was literally a thread made about it with plenty of Leaf fans stating hes been amazing

 

[Knies iT]

There was literally a thread made about it with plenty of Leaf fans stating hes been amazing

Link to the thread where multiple Leaf fans called Zaitsev "the best UFA signing of all-time". If I don't see that quote verbatim, then it's par for the course from you.

 

[crab]

Why is the Penguins window firmly shut in two years exactly?

1) Crosby, Malkin and Letang will be 35, 36 and 35. On top of that all three are very injury prone.

2) The Penguins just lost to the 24th ranked team in a play in and missed the playoffs.

3) Their only potential impact prospect is Poulin and he’s not that great. Their prospect pool is by far the worst in the league.

4) Their is much better up and coming teams.

5) They don’t have their first round pick for the upcoming draft.

 

[nbwingsfan]

The risk is very, very small given that Marino's best attributes (skating, smarts) are things that typically you don't see in guys who regress or never surpass being a bottom pairing d-man.

The last Pens defenseman who regressed after a promising start was Olli Maatta. But the main differences between him and Marino are a]thyroid cancer messing with his strength/conditioning training and b]Maatta was always a mediocre skater to begin with. And even he, despite his slug-like skating, remained a #4/5 defenseman for the bulk of his "down" years.

When is the last time a defenseman with good wheels and good hockey IQ regressed lower than a second pairing guy? I can't think of any. The ones that do usually have glaring flaws (ie. slow skating or don't process the game well enough).

The thing is you're basing this "IQ" off of 50 games. Brendan Smith looked like a great piece for a while with the Wings, then his true decision making came out in spades. The same could be said about Matheson

 

[Gurglesons]

Top pairing minutes? Even strength he was third, playing between 10seconds and 20 seconds more than Johnson/Shultz/Pettersson.

Since when are Myers, Matheson and Jonathan Ericsson "offensive only" D? :Laugh: Ericsson is the opposite as offensive. I can add way more to the list if youd like

TBH, I don't really get any of your comparisons.

 

[Gurglesons]

1) Crosby, Malkin and Letang will be 35, 36 and 35. On top of that all three are very injury prone.

2) The Penguins just lost to the 24th ranked team in a play in and missed the playoffs.

3) Their only potential impact prospect is Poulin and he’s not that great.

4) Their is much better up and coming teams.

1.) Technically Malkin and Letang won't even be "Penguins" in two years. Players of Crosby and Malkin's caliber don't really fall off see Joe Sakic for reference and what they've been doing regularly the past couple years.

2.) If one season's playoff results indicate future success, I guess we should take away Tampa's cup.

3.) In two years they will still have Guentzel, Zucker, Marino, Dumoulin, Pettersson, Jarry, etc all under contract.

4.) Sure.

If anything, the idea behind this contract is to cushion the loss of letting Letang walk if he asks for too much.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Link to the thread where multiple Leaf fans called Zaitsev "the best UFA signing of all-time". If I don't see that quote verbatim, then it's par for the course from you.

Is Nikita Zaitsev one of the top free agent signings of the last few years?

Here's your thread for your entertainment. There's even a nice gem from YOU calling him a #2D on the first page

 

[nbwingsfan]

TBH, I don't really get any of your comparisons.

For the 1000th time... It's players who looked great in their first season and then never came close to repeating or exceeding that season. Those teams are very lucky they didnt sign these players based on that one season too.

Its a pretty big gamble for Pittsburgh and hopefully for them it pays off.

 

[Gurglesons]

For the 1000th time... It's players who looked great in their first season and then never came close to repeating or exceeding that season. Those teams are very lucky they didnt sign these players based on that one season too.

Its a pretty big gamble for Pittsburgh and hopefully for them it pays off.

But you are using players like Nyquist, Ericsson, Myers, Zaitsev that were nowhere near the player Marino was this year.

Yes, many players are a flash in the pan. Not many rookie defenseman don't immediately step in and play top pairing minutes. Put up league best defenseman analytics and have an eye test that matches up.

It is a risk, but every long term contract is. I don't see a ton of risk with this one especially with the cost. Hell, you used Matheson who signed multiple years ago and is still a higher cap hit than this one. If Marino fails to reproduce this year, he'll still be a decent defenseman.

 

[Knies iT]

Is Nikita Zaitsev one of the top free agent signings of the last few years?

Here's your thread for your entertainment. There's even a nice gem from YOU calling him a #2D on the first page

So once again, you lied and can't find 1 Leaf fan, let alone multiple, who said what you're claiming.

Saying Zaitsev had 40pt potential after posting a 36pt rookie season on an ELC is far from outrageous His production was a mirage due to inflated PP totals and poor underlying numbers - the exact opposite of Marino. They're simply not comparable.

Continue to post disinformation, nobody takes you seriously.

 

[crab]

1.) Technically Malkin and Letang won't even be "Penguins" in two years. Players of Crosby and Malkin's caliber don't really fall off see Joe Sakic for reference and what they've been doing regularly the past couple years.

2.) If one season's playoff results indicate future success, I guess we should take away Tampa's cup.

3.) In two years they will still have Guentzel, Zucker, Marino, Dumoulin, Pettersson, Jarry, etc all under contract.

4.) Sure.

If anything, the idea behind this contract is to cushion the loss of letting Letang walk if he asks for too much.

1) Malkin is already showing signs of regression. 4 points in his last 8 playoff games (some of those against the Canadiens) and being a minus player. Crosby will probably age well if his recent injury isn’t too bad but Malkin and Letang will deteriorate quickly as they rely on their physical skill sets.

2) The Canadiens were a lottery team that had no business in the playoffs. Totally different situation compared to the Lightning. The Lightning also didn’t have an aging core.

3) That won’t take them very far with an aging Malkin, Crosby and Letang. Listing Pettersson as one of the few impact young players really makes my case, he regressed last year after his first season with the Penguins and looked like a third pair defenseman.

 

[nbwingsfan]

But you are using players like Nyquist, Ericsson, Myers, Zaitsev that were nowhere near the player Marino was this year.

Yes, many players are a flash in the pan. Not many rookie defenseman don't immediately step in and play top pairing minutes. Put up league best defenseman analytics and have an eye test that matches up.

It is a risk, but every long term contract is. I don't see a ton of risk with this one especially with the cost. Hell, you used Matheson who signed multiple years ago and is still a higher cap hit than this one. If Marino fails to reproduce this year, he'll still be a decent defenseman.

I mean Nyquist literally dragged the Wings to the playoffs almost on his own after going almost PPG while our stars were injured... Then settled as a 40-50pt player.

 

[nbwingsfan]

So once again, you lied and can't find 1 Leaf fan, let alone multiple, who said what you're claiming.

Saying Zaitsev had 40pt potential after posting a 36pt rookie season on an ELC is far from outrageous His production was a mirage due to inflated PP totals and poor underlying numbers - the exact opposite of Marino. They're simply not comparable.

Continue to post disinformation, nobody takes you seriously.

Its too bad you guys traded your #2D for Cody Ceci

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The contract is a very good deal for the Penguins and worth the risk if you don’t consider the Penguins current situation.

With that said, it doesn’t really make sense to take the risk when the Penguins window will be firmly shut in two years.

If the Pens think they have a potential #1 blueliner in the making, what does any made up window have to do with things?

Teams are always looking for #1s, no matter if they are contenders, rebuilding, etc.

In two years Letang will be off the books and I doubt Marino’s contract will be hurting their cap, even if he regresses.

 

[Gurglesons]

1) Malkin is already showing signs of regression. 4 points in his last 8 playoff games (some of those against the Canadiens) and being a minus player. Crosby will probably age well if his recent injury isn’t too bad but Malkin and Letang will deteriorate quickly as they rely on their physical skill sets.

2) The Canadiens were a lottery team that had no business in the playoffs. Totally different situation compared to the Lightning. The Lightning also didn’t have an aging core.

3) That won’t take them very far with an aging Malkin, Crosby and Letang. Listing Pettersson as one of the few impact young players really makes my case, he regressed last year after his first season with the Penguins and looked like a third pair defenseman.

1.) Lots of weight in an 8 game sample. Letang produced at a 20 goal pace last season and was analytically a top 5 defenseman. Malkin PPG wise was one of the best forwards in the league and G - M - R was statically a top three line.

2.) Neat. They also got to play in a best of 5 against a team that was firmly in the playoffs.

3.) Pettersson didn't regress last season and had a near identical analytical season to the year prior.