Well he was right about Binnington and Allen.If Suraj was with the athletic he’d consider it
Speculation: Pietrangelo's future (reports: to go to FA)
- Thread starter Spektre
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8 years at low 9s (number to be confirmed) for Josi. That's Petro's comparable, and most experts (ie, just about all that I've seen) projected Josi to get a little more than Petro. This likely puts Petro's number at between 8.5 and 9 per. That's do-able, with a couple of adjustments by DA.
67Blues
Got it for Bobby
- Jul 4, 2014
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Josi coming in at $9.059 AAV. He was comically underpaid on his last deal, so I anticipate that this makes up for some of that. I'm sticking to my guns on the Petro deal at $8.75M AAV or $70M over the 8 years. Maybe in light of Josi's number we should round that up to $8.7527M or $70,021,600 over 8 years.
Expect Petro will have a full NMC and plenty of signing bonus money just like Josi.
Expect Petro will have a full NMC and plenty of signing bonus money just like Josi.
AjaxManifesto
Pro sports is becoming predictable and boring
Thank you Preds (being sincere here) for keeping it real. Now we have a valid "comp" in the marketplace to negotiate with Petro.
Toronto, thanks for nothing but pumping up the market unrealistically.
Toronto, thanks for nothing but pumping up the market unrealistically.
67Blues
Got it for Bobby
I would expect lower than that. Assumption by LeBrun is that Petro would be $500k or more below Josi in AAV.$8.75x8 and the main board will go into full meltdown mode.
Yeah - but frankly, that's a BS assumption if you ask me.
Petro is the better 2-way player and captained a Cup winner. Both guys have a pair of top-5 Norris finishes, but playoff Petro >>> playoff Josi. If I'm Petro's agent, I'm not accepting a nickel less than Josi.
I wouldn't. I believe Petro is the better, more valuable player, and if I'm his agent I push for more than Josi. Part of the reason why the Athletic panel thought Josi would come in higher was because Nashville needed him more than STL needs Petro. I don't really buy that argument, (not that it's untrue) and if Petro wants to earn more for the Cup win alone, he'll get it. The Blues aren't going to lose their captain over a few hundred K. It's a pride thing for the players and agents alike. The opinion of national writers doesn't register when it comes to finalizing a contract. I'd love to see it come in less. But how does Armstrong present a smaller offer than Josi just got and justify it?
It wasn't LeBrun's opinion as much as it was that of agents and execs around the league. Nobody thought Petro would get as much as Josi. Partly bc we aren't as desperate as Preds and partly due to Josi's last contract and also due to perceived value of the 2. Petro might get more than that on open market but that doesn't mean he will here.
But neither of those things have anything to do with Pietrangelo and perceived value shouldn't matter. I hope everyone's right and he falls in line like a compliant trooper and takes $8.5M for the sake of the team. But he shouldn't, nor should he have to because of "perceived value". Newport is going to point to Josi's deal and tell Army to do better, as they should.
Brian39
Registered User
- Apr 24, 2014
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The article was not a panel of writers. It was a panel of player agents and NHL front office members.
It could be a panel a HOF-players for all I care. There's an advantage to having the other guy sign first and if I'm Newport nothing matters other than "Josi is our comparable, and Petro > Josi. Tell us why we're wrong while we play highlights of Josi playing the role of playoff windmill". Again, I simply am not of the belief that the reasons that were cited as to why Josi will command more are all that relevant or material when it comes down to it. I think $9.1M is the proper play for Army getting a deal done.
Brian39
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- Apr 24, 2014
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The Blues would point to the fact that Josi has outscored Petro every year for 5 straight seasons and finished higher in Norris voting in each of those 5 seasons. They'll point to just about every expert opinion that ranks Josi a few slots higher than Petro in the overall rankings and remind Petro's agent about how Josi was just as dominant as Petro was on their run to the Final 3 years ago.
I think the gap between Josi/Petro is closer than sources of the article do and I think their eventual contracts will be very similar. But your downplaying of Josi as a "playoff windmill" is just laughably inaccurate and the opinions of people actually involved in the business of hockey is more relevant than the opinions of writers as you originally mentioned.
Edit: for the sake of clarity, I want to point out that I would take Petro over Josi in a complete vacuum. My point is that Josi is better defensively than he sometimes gets credit for and his strengths are in areas that GMs consistently overpay for. I think the gap between he and Petro defensively is about the same size as the gap between the two offensively and because offensive strengths generally earn more money than defensive strengths in the NHL, I think there is a decent chance Josi's AAV comes in higher than Petro's. If Petro comes in slightly higher than Josi, I'm totally fine with that. $9.1 shouldn't be a number that causes Army to walk away from Petro when all is said and done.
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If they hold to that position Petro will play somewhere else next year. Unless that is what he truly wants, that would be major fail by agents.
It wasn’t LeBrun’s assumption. It was the sentiment of the GMs and agents he interviewed.
I’ll happily be wrong, and in fact, I actually expect Petro to come in less than Josi. I just don’t agree with it, but acknowledge that the stats (and resulting Norris votes) are any easy, if not lazy, thing to point to as justification for a huge contract. I’ll always prefer a 50-point 2-way stalwart to a 70-point ‘high-risk’ D-man who sacrifices defending in the name of points. But points pay. However, I will say that I’ve seen enough playoff Preds games where Josi was their worst defender on the ice where I’m comfortable in saying an agent absolutely could assemble a highlight reel of his playoff struggles to illustrate just how much better Petro is in his own end. Pietrangelo is no doubt in my mind the superior player worthy of the larger contract, and Josi’s previous deal or Preds usage of him doesn’t change that.
I’d love to have another advantage over the Preds, contracts-wise...so I’m cool with $8.5M/yr. If nothing else it’s fun to talk about, though I’m cool with the speculation ending immediately with an announcement of an extension.
I’d love to have another advantage over the Preds, contracts-wise...so I’m cool with $8.5M/yr. If nothing else it’s fun to talk about, though I’m cool with the speculation ending immediately with an announcement of an extension.
Pietrangelo is a better defender than Josi. Josi might put up better numbers, (which accounts for his Norris nominations), but I honestly think Pietrangelo is a better all around defenseman.
LetsGoBooze
Buium or bust
- Jan 16, 2012
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Very good comp, and i like the price. Petro at roughly 9mil should be very doable and keep this core in tact going forward.
Robb_K
Registered User
I agree with this. So many people give points too much emphasis. The first job of a defenceman is to defend. Some defencemen try to emulate Bobby Orr's numbers, forgetting how great he was in his own zone. Many of them are not even average there.
Once it got past July then it isn't a surprise that Armstrong was going to be patient and wait for Josi to get signed before really trying to get a deal done with Pietrangelo. I'd expect that we'll see an extension before the end of the year now.
As for LeBrun putting the numbers out there about people around the League thinking Pietrangelo would get X amount less than Josi? I've not read the article, but I know that it's not worth putting any stock in stuff like that. For a start, were those opinions before anyone knew what Josi got?
Whoever he asked would have been assuming perfect market value in their eyes. If Josi signed at $8.5m then would any of them have said that Pietrangelo is only an $8m player? The fact that Subban, OEL, an older Burns, Carlson and Trouba all got have higher % of the cap shows that anyone claiming that would be wrong. Then there is the different tax situation between MO and TN which I doubt anyone considered.
$9m is still probably right around the fair number for Pietrangelo. Still hoping that we can get an obvious discount.
As for LeBrun putting the numbers out there about people around the League thinking Pietrangelo would get X amount less than Josi? I've not read the article, but I know that it's not worth putting any stock in stuff like that. For a start, were those opinions before anyone knew what Josi got?
Whoever he asked would have been assuming perfect market value in their eyes. If Josi signed at $8.5m then would any of them have said that Pietrangelo is only an $8m player? The fact that Subban, OEL, an older Burns, Carlson and Trouba all got have higher % of the cap shows that anyone claiming that would be wrong. Then there is the different tax situation between MO and TN which I doubt anyone considered.
$9m is still probably right around the fair number for Pietrangelo. Still hoping that we can get an obvious discount.
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