Speculation: Pietrangelo Close To Signing Extension (could be tonight)

[AvatarAang]

But but but, he's got best friends on Toronto's team!!!

But but but, I thought it was leaf fans who derail threads.

Haters will make sure every thread involve the Leafs and then get upset when leaf fans respond to irrelevant comments like yours

Please contribute to the thread, there's no reason to involve the Leafs in a Pietrangelo thread.

 

[Fourier]

They probably used up $1.2m in tagging to sign Schenn. There's still potentially $2m in tagging left just from Bouwmeester. Plus can potentially tag some of the RFA's. This won't create a problem as tagging space increases after March 1st, so will still be able to QO the RFA's.

Shouldn't be an obstacle to getting Pietrangelo his well earned 8 x $9m or so.

edit: I don't think Faulk should make a difference because his extension was signed during the off-season under the 10%+ summer cap.

I may be confused here but they already have $73.777M committed next year. How are you getting the tagging room to sign him at $9M or more?

 

[Legion34]

I mean, go to the Faulk thread, how many were saying Petro was destined to leave and go to Toronto? This is HF, it should be expected.

Blame Bob McKenzie. He brought it up multiple times. Unless you think he is unreliable. We are allowed to speculate on him.

 

[mouser]

I may be confused here but they already have $73.777M committed next year. How are you getting the tagging room to sign him at $9M or more?

The Tagging rule doesn't technically say you can't go over the cap next season. It says if you don't have the available Payroll Room to fit the extended contract in then you need to tag players. Changes in the 2013 CBA also tacitly acknowledge teams can exceed the cap next year using Tagging space because the tagging space is effectively expanded on March 1st each year.

At this moment St Louis has $145k in Payroll Room and $4.722m in Taggable contracts (not including Pietro). So just under $4.9m in taggable extension space. Schenn's extension would have used up $1.375m of this space, leaving $3.5m in Tagging room. So Pietro could be extended at up to $10m AAV.

The only argument against this characterization would be if Faulk's extension (net +$2.35m) is consuming any of the Tagging space. Faulk was signed before the regular season started, and thus under the off-season cap the team had payroll room to extend him without tagging players. Available Payroll Room resets to the regular season cap on day 1 of the season. I don't see any indication in the CBA that Faulk's extension would consume tagging space. If it does then it would have to be some side agreement outside the CBA between the NHL and PA.

Even if hypothetically Faulk was consuming space St Louis could still delay the extension until March 1st, after which they would have room to sign Pietro to just about any conceivable contract.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Blame Bob McKenzie. He brought it up multiple times. Unless you think he is unreliable. We are allowed to speculate on him.

The point is, Toronto fans shouldn't have the woe is me mentality in here.

 

[Alklha]

Blame Bob McKenzie. He brought it up multiple times. Unless you think he is unreliable. We are allowed to speculate on him.

What exactly has McKenzie said? Other than that Pietrangelo wants to stay in St. Louis.

 

[Fourier]

The Tagging rule doesn't technically say you can't go over the cap next season. It says if you don't have the available Payroll Room to fit the extended contract in then you need to tag players. Changes in the 2013 CBA also tacitly acknowledge teams can exceed the cap next year using Tagging space because the tagging space is effectively expanded on March 1st each year.

At this moment St Louis has $145k in Payroll Room and $4.722m in Taggable contracts (not including Pietro). So just under $4.9m in taggable extension space. Schenn's extension would have used up $1.375m of this space, leaving $3.5m in Tagging room. So Pietro could be extended at up to $10m AAV.

The only argument against this characterization would be if Faulk's extension (net +$2.35m) is consuming any of the Tagging space. Faulk was signed before the regular season started, and thus under the off-season cap the team had payroll room to extend him without tagging players. Available Payroll Room resets to the regular season cap on day 1 of the season. I don't see any indication in the CBA that Faulk's extension would consume tagging space. If it does then it would have to be some side agreement outside the CBA between the NHL and PA.

Even if hypothetically Faulk was consuming space St Louis could still delay the extension until March 1st, after which they would have room to sign Pietro to just about any conceivable contract.

Merci!!

 

[ole ole]

Everyone coming up with 9-10M AAV signings are just out of this world.

The Blues aren't "Toronto". Their internal cap structure has their best players right now making $7.5M AAV on recent deals.

Assuming Pietrangelo keeps the same cap hit % for his next deal (in exchange for an 8 years deal) he'd likely get 8.25M AAV, but since this contract will take him to age 37 or so, the team might pull something around 7.75/8M. (The lowest of which, for those wondering, is equal to $9.1M AAV in Toronto).

So yeah, for him to get that 8th year, means he'll be lower (7.5-8.25) than what most people here expect. It's not because one market is blowing it out of the water with signing all of their players to high cap hits that the trend will translate across the league, as seen on all recent deals.

Exactly. Pie isn't dealing with Dubas. Armstrong will get him at a reasonable price unlike other Managers who overpay for some players.

 

[McShogun99]

I'm going to guess 8 x 9.5

 

[Musampa2019]

My guess is 8 x 8.125

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

8x8 with a 7 team NTC.

 

[mouser]

8x8 with a 7 team NTC.

Schenn got 5 years of full NTC. Pietro isn't getting less then that.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

8 years, 9 mill for me. And he deserves it.

 

[ToDavid]

Friedman reporting that the team wants him around OEL money, $8.125mx8, but he's not particularly happy with that. I could see him around $9.5mx8 which is still a solid deal considering he could probably easily get $10m+ on the open market.

 

[67Blues]

Friedman reporting that the team wants him around OEL money, $8.125mx8, but he's not particularly happy with that. I could see him around $9.5mx8 which is still a solid deal considering he could probably easily get $10m+ on the open market.

Armstrong is really good at keeping mum on any real negotiations. I wouldn't be surprised if this is more speculation and rumor from Friedman than insider information.

 

[xNogaitx]

Friedman reporting that the team wants him around OEL money, $8.125mx8, but he's not particularly happy with that. I could see him around $9.5mx8 which is still a solid deal considering he could probably easily get $10m+ on the open market.

You have to remember that on the open market (i.e. Toronto) a $10M AAV is close to 8.25M AAV in St-Louis "after-tax". And the blues have the edge of the 8th year, which is crucial in his case since this will be his last NHL contract. A team like Toronto would have to offer McDavid money over 7 years just to match what he'll get with 8.125-ish in St-Louis over 8 years.

Most players don't move from a market they are comfortable in unless there are considerable earnings added, which won't happen.

 

[izzy]

8X8.5

also at that point, should be a good chip for negotiations for current players on the team. they will know that 8.5 is the cap for likely the next 4 years

 

[StreetHawk]

Friedman reporting that the team wants him around OEL money, $8.125mx8, but he's not particularly happy with that. I could see him around $9.5mx8 which is still a solid deal considering he could probably easily get $10m+ on the open market.

AP is better than OEL.
Highest cap hit Dmen are EK at $11.5 beginning this season. DD at $11 mill beginning this season. Subban at $9 million, in year 6 of his 8 year deal. Then you get to OEL at $8.25 mill which begins this season.

I'd expect it to at a minimum, match PK Subban's cap hit and likely surpass it. $9.5 mill per seems about right. $1.25 million higher than OEL and $1.5 million less than Doughty.

Jossi in Nashville is likely to land close to $10 million per. He's already been on a cheap deal. Time for him to get paid what he deserves.

 

[MAHJ71]

But but but, I thought it was leaf fans who derail threads.

Haters will make sure every thread involve the Leafs and then get upset when leaf fans respond to irrelevant comments like yours

Please contribute to the thread, there's no reason to involve the Leafs in a Pietrangelo thread.

Quite a few likes my post received. Apparently I'm not the only one who thought I "contributed"

 

[mouser]

You have to remember that on the open market (i.e. Toronto) a $10M AAV is close to 8.25M AAV in St-Louis "after-tax". And the blues have the edge of the 8th year, which is crucial in his case since this will be his last NHL contract. A team like Toronto would have to offer McDavid money over 7 years just to match what he'll get with 8.125-ish in St-Louis over 8 years.

Most players don't move from a market they are comfortable in unless there are considerable earnings added, which won't happen.

You’re way overestimating the tax differences. Not to mention Toronto isn’t the only market that might put down $10m AAV on Pietroangelo.

 

[typicalsavage]

Exactly. Pie isn't dealing with Dubas. Armstrong will get him at a reasonable price unlike other Managers who overpay for some players.

Your right kinda like Bergevin with Shaw, Price, Alzner, Chiarot, Drouin etc right?
Id rather overpay my early 20 year old star players than middle of the pack players or guys at the end of their primes.

 

[xNogaitx]

You’re way overestimating the tax differences. Not to mention Toronto isn’t the only market that might put down $10m AAV on Pietroangelo.

I'm merely using capfriendly's income tax calculator.

$10M AAV in Toronto nets ~ $4.675M after tax (then you take out escrow + agent fees so it's even lower.)

To replicate the same after tax (although, lower AAV means lower agent fees & escrow so that's further benefiting the team offering the lower AAV.) dollars in St. Louis, the AAV has to be $8.61M AAV.

So yes, once you factor in the tax differences, the agent fees, escrow, having to sell his house & move his family, not getting that 8th year of guaranteed money available to him, etc.

The price tag on any team not named St. Louis will be so high that it will be a bad contract within 3 years. Heck, even at 8M ish, Pietrangelo's last 3-4 years of his contract will be a headache.

 

[HOPE]

so Vince Dunn is exposed?

 

[mouser]

I'm merely using capfriendly's income tax calculator.

$10M AAV in Toronto nets ~ $4.675M after tax (then you take out escrow + agent fees so it's even lower.)

To replicate the same after tax (although, lower AAV means lower agent fees & escrow so that's further benefiting the team offering the lower AAV.) dollars in St. Louis, the AAV has to be $8.61M AAV.

So yes, once you factor in the tax differences, the agent fees, escrow, having to sell his house & move his family, not getting that 8th year of guaranteed money available to him, etc.

The price tag on any team not named St. Louis will be so high that it will be a bad contract within 3 years. Heck, even at 8M ish, Pietrangelo's last 3-4 years of his contract will be a headache.

Capfriendly’s calculator is an oversimplified spitball attempt at taxes. It completely ignores all sorts of real world tax planning strategies players can utilize to reduce their effective tax rate. And the more highly compensated the player is the more likely their agent is working with tax planners to maximize the player’s take home pay.

And that still skips my point that Toronto isn’t the only team that might be willing to give Pietro $10m next summer.

Also fwiw, I think Pietrangelo’s game is one that should age well as he hits his mid 30’s.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

But I thought the acquisition of Faulk meant that we had to give up Petro?

In all seriousness though, anything under 10 is a steal for a bonafide Top 10 defenseman in the league and often can be Top 5.