TSN: Pierre McGuire says McDavid and Matthews battling for 2nd best player in NHL

biotk

Registered User
Jan 3, 2017
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Buffalo
I wouldn't make the claim that Matthews is battling for number 2 in the league out loud, on the TV or radio, but I don't think that it is a completely crazy thing to say.

I am not a "Leafs fan". Buffalo is my local team (although over my life I have lived in a half dozen different NHL cities across the US and Canada), but I consider myself a free agent who has no team, and simply appreciates great hockey players no matter where they play. I wanted Toronto to win the McDavid lottery because the franchise has had such a crap history over the last many decades. Having watched McDavid last year and this year, I think he is incredible. That speed with the puck, unreal. Before the season started I was saddened that the Leafs 1OA was someone like Matthews instead of someone like McDavid, the former whom I considered likely to be a career weak first line 60 point/season centre and the latter whom I considered likely to be a 100 point/season centre in the top 2 or 3 in the league for 15 years, winning a lot of hardware. Why the huge difference between the two? Perhaps it is because McDavid posted huge numbers in the OHL, whereas I couldn't really assess Matthews time Switzerland the same way. Perhaps it was simply because I felt it extremely unlikely for two draft years in a row to have such an incredible talent.

The roughly 12 games I have watched both play this year has completely changed my mind about Matthews (and a little about McDavid). I posted elsewhere that if I was a coach I would take Matthews over McDavid and I mean that. I think that Matthews is becoming (or rather has become) a complete player (I still think that he may never be great at faceoffs, but I don't consider that a big deal, and McDavid is worse in that department) I still think that McDavid will probably score more points over the next couple years, but even there I wonder if part of that is bias from over-rating how truly beneficial McDavid's raw speed actually is.

Over the last 20 games that each player has played:

Matthews is tied for fourth (as far as I can tell - I might be missing someone): Malkin (27), Crosby (26), Burns!!! (24), Matthews and Kane (22), Tarasenko and Panarin (21), Kessel (20), McDavid and Laine (19).

And is first in goals: Matthews (15), Crosby Atkinson and Carter (12), Tarasenko (11) with Laine and Ovechkin scoring 9 and McDavid 3.

And that is playing a line with Brown and Hyman (although I am a big fan of both and want the line kept together), and while in general playing about 2 - 4 minutes less a game than most of the other big producers I have mentioned. Matthews average time on ice is also slowly increasing.

I think that Crosby will finish the season with 44 goals (due to his s% returning towards his normal range in the second half). I expect Ovechkin to have a stronger second half and finish with 46 or 47. I think that Matthews has a decent shot at mid to high 40s in terms of goals and therefore might be fighting it out for the Rocket first year. I predicted 50 (+/- 5) points for Matthews before the start of the year. I now think that 80 is likely. If it doesn't happen...if he ends up with 60 points and 35 goals, I will still be extremely impressed with the way he has played.
 
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cookie

Fresh From The Oven
Nov 24, 2009
6,922
1,425
Oven then stomach
He's not even the best rookie??? Sorry cherry pick your post I now there's been multiple posts that state this but honestly he's been hands down the best rookie this year. Some Leafs fans are so shell shocked by the past they believe there is no way a Leaf player can be the best or among the best at anything in the league. The idea can't even be entertained. It's tragic. :shakehead:shakehead
Matthews is really that good!! The whole league is talking about him. NBC is picking up Leaf games because of him. What this kid is doing is special. What more do you need to believe in him??? :help:

Not need to be sorry lmao. I even said that I thought it was amusing. People are going to be bringing up Werenski's production against Matthews play as the team's top line center (wrongfully so). But the bigger picture is that although he is not a finished product, so to speak, he is still making a name for himself amongst the gop of the league. Only time will erase any biases and misconceptions about his and his competiton's play--for instance, why is McDavid's speed not used on the PK? How much did playing with Hyman, Brown, etc., drag down (or enhance) Matthews's game? We need time.
 

HellasLEAF

'93 to Infinity
Sep 14, 2006
15,345
1,800
Pierre watches a lot of hockey.

It's a bold statement but right now, he's not far off..
 

frizzer1

Registered User
Oct 19, 2013
5,504
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A 19 year old rookie on a line with 2 offensively challenged rookies putting up amazing numbers.
Wait a year or two while he gets stronger.
Then we can have this discussion..
 

Jeypic

Registered User
Sep 12, 2015
1,377
296
are people seriously mad about this? Matthews is legit. The eye test to me, agrees 100% with this statement. Now currently their are a couple other players battling it out for this spot too.. but nobody in this league holds more value then mcdavid and Matthews for a reason.

They are the 1-2 of the future. And currently are battling it out for that #2 spot.
 

613Leafer

Registered User
May 26, 2008
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It's analysts like this that give Leafs fans a bad name. People read these headlines, and assume it's common chatter among Leafs fans.
 

Macallan18

Registered User
Aug 10, 2015
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flip it around, who would you trade Matthews for in a one for one trade? I know that factors in age, but really, not a whole lot of players.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
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I'm starting to think people don't watch McDavid much outside of highlights. Matthews creates chance after chance each game, and the stats show McDavid isn't really better in that regard. He's still the better player due to his offensive production, but they're certainly comparable young players on the same tier
 

613Leafer

Registered User
May 26, 2008
12,899
3,761
flip it around, who would you trade Matthews for in a one for one trade? I know that factors in age, but really, not a whole lot of players.

Value is heavily influenced by age, caphit, time to UFA, etc. Ranking best players in the league vs ranking most valuable players in a cap world are VERY different things.
 

Warden of the North

Ned Stark's head
Apr 28, 2006
46,508
22,031
Muskoka
Its honestly hard to judge the two. So much of McDavids game is a rush game and his points come because hes simply so much faster then anyone else in the league. I think Matthews is a little better in tight but I havent watched enough of McDavid to really compare.

Injuries aside (knocks on wood), I think age will be kinder to Matthews.
 

Mitts Marner*

Guest
I don't care what anyone says, I think Matthews possesses puck skills that nobody in the NHL can match.

Take a look at how he learned to play hockey. The only way he has ever known how to play the game is to take the puck from people in open ice. Not playing solid positional defense, not playing physical, not playing a board game.

This is something that is rarely, if ever coached in North American hockey development. Matthews made his entire career out of it.

And quite frankly, just watch him play. He might not be the "best" player in the league stats-wise (Although he isn't doing too shabby in that regard), but he is still in a league of his own, because he grew up being head and shoulders above everyone else in a league of his own.
 

Gabriel426

Registered User
Jun 30, 2015
17,099
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About time people are realising Matthews is great, but 2nd best player in the league now is a little too much for now.
Just let the kid plays and grows and become the best player in the league.
 

SoVi3t

Registered User
Sep 16, 2009
1,142
1,271
I bumped into Matthews last week, and he was delivering a baby. And it was on fire. And he just blew some air on it and it not only extinguished the fire, but the baby turned into none other than Mr. Wayne Gretzky!


I mean really....is there anything this kid can't do?
 

34

Registered User
Mar 26, 2010
21,674
9,548
I will say it again, Matthews is better than McDavid.

I like and respect McDavid plenty, good Toronto kid... but he is being overhyped big time. They are both elite talents that will dominate the NHL for the next decade +.
 

stonewalled

Registered User
Apr 13, 2015
194
5
McD may still be better but he is supposed to be. After all he is touted to be one of those rare "generational players". Matthews hyped to be "only" a franchise centre and the third best in the past two years at that. So for Matthews to be in the discsussion with McD and not Eichel is quite the surprise and accomplishment.
 

The Apologist

Apologizing for Leaf garbage since 1979
Oct 16, 2007
12,251
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Leaf Nation Hell
I bumped into Matthews last week, and he was delivering a baby. And it was on fire. And he just blew some air on it and it not only extinguished the fire, but the baby turned into none other than Mr. Wayne Gretzky!


I mean really....is there anything this kid can't do?
Save this post???
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
41,379
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St. Paul, MN
Matthews "problem" as that he developed as a hockey player in relative obscurity- even within the American hockey community. Budding superstars in Canada get identified even as kids and the media tends to keep closer tabs on them. So Matthews wasn't able to garner as strong of a reputation pre-draft.

I don't think it's that outlandish to think Matthews is close (and one day might even be on) McDavi's level.
 

Babcocks Marner

It's a magical time
Mar 3, 2015
4,109
609
Toronto
Everything is speculation. Sure he could be better one day. Right now, McDavid is better, and there should not even be a comparison after 40 games.

So if the conversation is right now, at this moment? No, he isn't top 3. There is an argument to be made that Marner has been as good as Matthews so far.

However, in regards to McDavid, I think there is one factor that weighs in Matthews favor.... We get no PPs!!!!!!!!! McDavid has 140min PP time, and Matthews has 108. McDavid also plays 2:30 extra mins per game, which adds up.

Honestly, I think they over play McDavid too much. Probably not great for the body down the road.
 

The_Chosen_One

Registered User
Jul 4, 2006
6,285
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Melbourne, Australia
^ To be fair, Marner with a top line winger who can pot +30 goals and a legitimate 2nd line C who had posted strong numbers in the past. Even Brown cannot be considered equivalent to Bozak yet.

That line also enjoys more sheltered minutes. In away games especially opposing coaches send their shut down units against Matthews. Despite that, his line is offensively productive and this will improve as his wingers finish the high scoring chances he generates.
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
70,280
9,322
It's analysts like this that give Leafs fans a bad name. People read these headlines, and assume it's common chatter among Leafs fans.

so?
Leafs Fans are going to have a bad name anyway so why does it matter?


a Montreal guy asked Pierre simple question and he gave his opinion. works for me lol
 

Babcocks Marner

It's a magical time
Mar 3, 2015
4,109
609
Toronto
^ To be fair, Marner with a top line winger who can pot +30 goals and a legitimate 2nd line C who had posted strong numbers in the past. Even Brown cannot be considered equivalent to Bozak yet.

That line also enjoys more sheltered minutes. In away games especially opposing coaches send their shut down units against Matthews. Despite that, his line is offensively productive and this will improve as his wingers finish the high scoring chances he generates.

To be fair, that winger and center were dogged for years for "holding Kessel back". Yet now, they seem to be the great Vets that help Marner. Interesting.

Marner gets more sheltered mins.... 100% fact. However, not sure if that is for Marner, or Boz and JVRs defensive game.

Not a shot on Matthews.... just I don't see One playing THAT much better over each other, and One is being compared to McDavid. It's no different in the Marner thread if you say Marner is bettter than McDavid... a dose of reality. At least for the moment.
 

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