Sportsnet: Pierre Dorion Talks NHL Draft Picks

[Dingle]

Ideal? No, although I think his actual play that year coming off the surgery had more of an impact on his value than the surgery itself. It went from waiting for him to recover, to, "****, this guy might be done" after seeing him play that season. Their defense without Methot, a healthy EK, and terrible goaltending had me hopeful it was just a perfect storm that could be corrected and obviously argued as such. It is looking like Karlsson is indeed a different player post surgery and the return has developed nicely.

If we're talking the best time based on value, then it's obviously before the run or during that season. My thoughts on how such a low budget team needs to operate is that it is exactly what needs to happen to avoid these 5 year complete fan check out type rebuilds.

I don't want to wade in to this debate much anymore and I am doing my best to stay out of the contentious mud slinging anymore. I was upset about their handling and how they chose to proceed. I was upset about who was left on the books or brought in that I would have liked to give away for free, while we watched much more desirable players leave, even though it wasn't a fixable situation. I was upset about their PR and how i felt treated as a fan, particularly by the Dorion and Nick R interviews. I was upset that I felt like they took no responsibility for the situation or had the empathy required to try to smooth it over. I was upset about a lot, but I could have lived with any trade of any player at any time and I think that's the only way forward for this team even with a clean salary slate. They don't have the funds to define and hang on to a core beyond ELC + One contract, it will need to be a fluid situation of many players under contract being dealt at prime times to keep the influx of pieces going.

Gesus..we are putting together an HF board hockey team. You're our goalie. It could take you a while to come down here from Whitehorse. First practice at the CTC.

Melnyk offered the ice for free. One condition, we trade away our best player.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Some of your takes Dave are a bit off imo

Karlsson was spectacular in the ecf run and then had a difficult, highly unusual surgery. As of December 2017, he'd played 3 months post surgery and those 3 months were certainly not the highlight of his career. He was struggling with his skating in several areas. I doubt at December 2017 anyone with professional credentials considered him a top 10 player in the game, in fact at that point in time i suspect most were unsure what the future held for him. By the end of that season he had recovered somehat and was clearly better than at the start of the year, but still not at 2017 ecf levels. Many here were arguing that he had fully recovered if you recall (i wasn't one of those people). As a hockey player, i suspect the consensus was his future was brighter in the summer of 18 than it was in December of 17 given he'd put more time between him and that injury

Karlsson was playing at a generational level for a lot of years. No debate from me on that. Once that injury occurred though, his future outlook changed. The team was in the position of having to trade a compromised asset. That's just the way it was. And at this stage the return is starting to look pretty exciting

As for Karlsson.... some argue he has recovered. TSN released their top 50 list this week. No Karlsson. Can you imagine how ****ed up that would have been three years ago?

He was being talked about with Crosby and McDavid as the 3 obvious best players in the game.

Sad turn of events for both him and the Senators.

That said, maybe, just maybe, he will get it back.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Gesus..we are putting together an HF board hockey team. You're our goalie. It could take you a while to come down here from Whitehorse. First practice at the CTC.

Melnyk offered the ice for free. One condition, we trade away our best player.

You're trading your best player... where am I being dealt?

 

[Dingle]

You're trading your best player... where am I being dealt?

OHHH COME ON..you lobbed that one in there....all with me: San Jose.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I think maybe you thought he was top 10, I think GMs were more likely to take a wait and see approach given the severity of the injury.

Like I said, at the beginning of 2017, after the surgery, Karlsson came in at #3 on TSN's top 50 rankings: A new No. 1: McDavid edges Crosby in TSN's Top 50 player poll - TSN.ca

While that may not be exact, the opinion of 22 TSN experts, including several former GMs, coaches and players, likely mirrors the opinions GMs around the league.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Like I said, at the beginning of 2017, after the surgery, Karlsson came in at #3 on TSN's top 50 rankings: A new No. 1: McDavid edges Crosby in TSN's Top 50 player poll - TSN.ca

While that may not be exact, the opinion of 22 TSN experts, including several former GMs, coaches and players, likely mirrors the opinions GMs around the league.

But after his injury, and then seeing him play after healing. This had obviously changed for EK.

I think it’s fair to say that GMs would take a wait and see approach and not view him as a shoe in top 10 player, especially given that he was no longer playing like one.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

OHHH COME ON..you lobbed that one in there....all with me: San Jose.

I'm the missing piece. That draft pick is officially screwed.

 

[bert]

Bert you are one hundred per cent right. We should have held on to those players and finished 28th without our 1st and then watch them walk.

That's not remotely what I said.

I want a real plan, the way things have been excecuted show that there never really was one. If they knew that Karlsson, Stone etc were leaving why did they trade for Duchene?...

The Hoffman deal where he was flipped immediately for picks when they took a cap dump back was a clear and obvious example of having no plan.

I dont think its too much to ask for an NHL general manager to have any sort of pulse on the team. If people think thats ok then you will continue to finish dead last and have a GM who cannot manage assets. Ultimately its the lack of asset management that has put the team in this terrible position.

The team finishes bottom two three years in a row while trading assets at their lowest possible value. Yet people are defending the person primarily responsible for this. The standards around here are so exceptionally low its truly incredible.

Luckily we know that the masses dont agree because no one is going to the games. Season tickets are at an all time low. But our arguments are 'tired' and 'dumb'. The internet is truly an exceptional place where no matter how terrible someones argument is it still carries water because a small minority agree.

The next argument that comes from said group of minorities on this board is 'you're not a fan or you cant be excited about the future etc.' Id argue the true fans are the ones that look at the scenario critically and hold the people accountable for this disaster.

That also doesnt mean we cant be excited at the possibility of adding young talent. Because ultimately we are passionate fans.

 

[Micklebot]

This thread no longer bears any resemblance to the op topic, we are done here.