Phoenix XXVI: Pain in the AZ

[cbcwpg]

You know what I find the saddest part of posts like this - the ONLY reason Winnipeg is being considered at all is because of Bettman.

Bettman has nothing to do with Winnipeg being considered. The ONLY reason Winnipeg is being considered is because of Winnipeg. TNSE approached the NHL years before the Phoenix Fiasco, and let it be known that they were interested in a team. Bettman never approached Winnipeg. And the memo Bettman wrote saying Winnipeg should be concidered, was written after Winnipeg asked about joining the league. If you would take your "Bettman Love" glasses off for a second, you would see that Bettman didn't wake up one day and say to himself " I've done Winnipeg wrong, and I have to set thinks right ", no, he woke up and saw a chance to use Winnipeg if he could. All Bettman sees in Winnipeg is a last option to save his own _____. "Break glass in case of emergency!". But, if that gets us a team I can live with that.

There is absolutely nothing to recommend the city to the rest of the owners of the NHL. It does absolutely nothing for the rest of the league. Its presence only weakens the league's push for a good TV deal payday and in the short term will probably cause the salary cap and floor to go UP (though short term only).

Daly was recently quoted as saying having a team in Phoenix or not will in no way affect the TV deals being worked on by the NHL. So it doesn't matter to TV if Phoenix exists or not, nor if Winnipeg has a team or not. See, even Daly knows that having 9,000 households in a city of 6 million won't get them that big TV contract.

 

[Pitlick*]

There's one factor that will get Gary's goat basically forever, if the Coyotes return home to Winnipeg...

Balsillie. No matter what Bettman will claim, if Jimmy Balls hadn't helped bring the Coyotes into bankrupcy, there would have been a nice tidy sale to Reinsdorf, and this wouldn't be happening.

Would Winnipeg put up a Balsillie statue?

Not saying I fully approve of Balls, but if you're a Gary Bettman hater, nothing would be sweeter than Jimmy Balls defeating him in the end, though the team would be in Winnipeg, not Hamilton. I'd expect Jimmy to remind the media of this, to rub it in to his foil Gary.

Bettman would never live it down. I would expect people to remind him of Jimmy forever, too.

 

[Ward Cornell]

Who here wishes their city had a GWI scrutinizing their cities affairs?



Hands-up?....

 

[Ward Cornell]

Actually, I think the question Bettman asked is a lot more relevant - why is GWI allowed to do this when they appear to answer to absolutely no one?

Probably because the GWI is right in their analysis of this whole kamozzle.
Plus a vast majority of Glendale residents who have a financial stake in all of this agrees GWI. and feels that GWI is looking after their long term best interests.
If GWI was wrong then they wouldn't have this clout!

 

[Whileee]

I think that the most important thing we learned in the past couple of days is that neither the NHL nor Hulsizer have any intention of modifying their negotiating position vis-a-vis the lease or the sale of the Coyotes. That has two implications. First, it means that since the GWI is apparently of the opinion that the deal as currently configured is unconstitutional, they don't have any basis for changing their stance. Second, I think that this could be an important talking point for the GWI in their PR battle with the COG, NHL and Hulsizer. They can point to their intransigence as the reason why the GWI has not felt compelled to stand down.

I thought that one of the avenues for making this deal happen was for either Hulsizer or the NHL to alter the terms of the deal somewhat to make it more palatable for the GWI, but that now appears out of the question. Frankly, that is very surprising to me.

 

[NHLfan4life]

Like most other teams that move, it comes down to the Arena. Coyotes were not able to get one built in Scottsdale, where the bulk of their core fans are located, and accepted the deal with Glendale, a 45-60 drive for their core fans in Scottsdale. Too much to ask for 41 times a season and on weekdays.

It is odd to see a team with a 8 year old arena, but no fans because the arena is not in the right city.

If you lived here you would know this is not the case or attitude of most of the fans here. You are making assumptions that are just not true. The fanbase is widely disbursed from Anthem to Mesa to Maricopa...how do I know? Because I talk to the people at the games. Your post is not even close to being accurate.

 

[cbcwpg]

Actually, I think the question Bettman asked is a lot more relevant - why is GWI allowed to do this when they appear to answer to absolutely no one?

The GWI answers to someone... thier contributors and the law as currently written. While Bettman thinks he should be allowed to do whatever he wants, regardless of the law.

Bettman is a lawyer who should respect the law, but, he only respects it, if it suits his agenda. He may not like the gift law, but he should respect it.

 

[NHLfan4life]

You know what I find the saddest part of posts like this - the ONLY reason Winnipeg is being considered at all is because of Bettman. There is absolutely nothing to recommend the city to the rest of the owners of the NHL. It does absolutely nothing for the rest of the league. Its presence only weakens the league's push for a good TV deal payday and in the short term will probably cause the salary cap and floor to go UP (though short term only). And its entire future existence hangs on whether or not the Canadian dollar can stay strong.

But, Bettman wants Winnipeg to have a team so should Glendale fail to come through, it will. It is just sad that he won't get any credit for it. We'll see how many people give credit where it is due when the time comes, but the behavior here, this attitude that because Bettman tries to help a currently existing franchise, it means he hates Canada or other BS, it doesn't bode well for that.

Be that as it may. Post this "end of the road Bettman" hate as you will, he'll still be there as long as he wants to be.

Well written. I agree with you 100%

 

[bleuet]

Here is the 1st period intermission interview with Bettman.


For a guy who says he isn't angry, he sure seemed terse. I'd say he sounded defeatist tonight.

He did great in this. GB is awesome on one to one interview (this is nothing new), maybe not in front of bunch of reporters.

 

[Deuce Awesome]

Who here wishes their city had a GWI scrutinizing their cities affairs?



Hands-up?....

Nawww, I don't think so.


I think that under the guise of being "accountable to the taxpayers" they are just piling onto the swelling tea party movement and see this as an easy victory that will get them wide spread attention and in some way shape or from promotions.

We already have the CRTC........

 

[New User Name]

It's too small a market to significantly impact CBC deals, will do nothing but reduce US TV deals, its short term bump will raise costs for everyone else, and the fact it already failed once makes it a leery chance in the future should the CAD crash again and stands a very good chance of being a welfare recipient long before that point.

I'll concede that "if" the CAD crashes again the Jets will have some serious cash problems (as will most other Canadian teams) BUT how can you say they'll stand a very good chance of being a welfare recipient before that? That's an astonishing thing to say and quite frankly something I would not expect from you. And your use of the term "welfare" is perplexing to say the least. I thought I was the only one referring to revenue sharing as welfare.

But, despite this, despite a very hostile outlook among most the US owners in the league to going back to Winnipeg, they are the frontrunner. Why? Because Bettman believes that they should be given first crack at the team, to correct something he never wanted to have happen in the first place. There's no suggestion of offering the Coyotes to Quebec City, even though they are just as capable of bidding on it as Winnipeg.

Please provide a link that suggests the US owners have a "very hostile outlook"

Nor places like Kansas City who have a much better arena and corporate market and groups patiently waiting for their shot.

Please provide a link to justify that comment.

(Bettman) thinks its the right thing to do.
Don't kid yourself. If Bettman didn't want the team in Winnipeg, it wouldn't be going to Winnipeg no matter what.

You realize what you're implying here?

 

[NHLfan4life]

Bettman's presser tonight might as well had him holding up a white flag....and since they'll be back in the peg soon he probably should have been dressed in all white as well

I saw it as positive for the Coyotes. He said everything is done "except the bonds" which we all know is a big part of it. And, he didn't seem angry at all like some other posters have suggested. He is frustrated that this GI entity has created a cloud over what 2 different law firms have said is a legal and doable deal. I think being this close to keeping the Coyotes in Glendale (what the NHL wants) is what is frustrating.
We want our Coyotes. They are not the Jets. Our Coyotes want to stay. The NHL wants them to stay. The fans want them to stay. Everyone has their reasons why but being hockey fans, no matter what side of the border you're on, should be a good enough reason to get behind the team.
I went to the game last night. OMG, even more signs of life from the fans there. Coyotes fans. Things are turning around, finally.

 

[berklon]

Don't kid yourself. If Bettman didn't want the team in Winnipeg, it wouldn't be going to Winnipeg no matter what.

One minute Bettman only acts on behalf of the BOG, the next minute it's his decision where a team can and can't go.

 

[cbcwpg]

I saw it as positive for the Coyotes. He said everything is done "except the bonds" which we all know is a big part of it. And, he didn't seem angry at all like some other posters have suggested. He is frustrated that this GI entity has created a cloud over what 2 different law firms have said is a legal and doable deal. I think being this close to keeping the Coyotes in Glendale (what the NHL wants) is what is frustrating.
We want our Coyotes. They are not the Jets. Our Coyotes want to stay. The NHL wants them to stay. The fans want them to stay. Everyone has their reasons why but being hockey fans, no matter what side of the border you're on, should be a good enough reason to get behind the team.
I went to the game last night. OMG, even more signs of life from the fans there. Coyotes fans. Things are turning around, finally.

As a fan of hockey that has lost a team but is still a fan, the sooner you realize that the NHL does not care what the fans want, the less stressful life will be. Go to the games, enjoy them for what they are, just remember that the NHL doesn't care what you think or want.

I watched the game on TV. I could have sworn the game was in Vancouver when the Canucks scored in OT.

 

[Fourier]

Awesome, love the title. works very well. I'm new to the board, and I guess I'm a little biased because I live in Winnipeg and want the Jets to come back where it belongs. This whole mess is such a gongshow, words can't really explain it.... hopefully it all ends soon and everything can work out.

I did get the vibe that Bettman was conceding, and now he's just saving face.

Despite the fact that you may well be correct that words can't explain this that has not stopped us from generating about 18 Billion of them in the brave attempt to do so.

 

[BrianSTC]

Really? You want a private group, backed by private money, to have carte blanche to stop any agreement it decides is "unlawful"?

How about one that squelched abortion clinics?

Or one that decided unions shouldn't be allowed?

Or one that attempted to outlaw immigration?

Or the teaching of evolution? (or anything other than Christian-based schools, for that matter)

And they could do any of this, without you having any say at all, until they are backed down in court?

You really want that, eh?

Don't even try to claim I am exaggerating, either - every one of those is either in the process of being enacted in various states, or the fight is on to do so. Arizona is one of the most screwed up places in North America and people like the GWI are a big part of why.

I don't see what any one of those things has anything to do with Goldwater blocking this deal.

This deal is SHADY. The GWI is blocking this deal because it is SHADY. The bonds are not selling because this deal is SHADY.

There are lawyers here debating whether this deal MIGHT be constitutional or MIGHT NOT. The lawyers can't even agree!

There are You Tube videos from OVER A YEAR AGO showing various interviews with GWI lawyer Carrie-Ann Sitron stating that no subsidies whould go to the Coyotes. So why after OVER A YEAR is anyone surprised that the GWI objects to this deal??

Paying 100 million for parking is ridiculous!
Paying 18.5 millions per year for Arena MGMT is ridiculous!

The COG is trying to GET AROUND the Gift Clause Law and THAT IS WHY THE DEAL IS SHADY.

Nobody, from JR to Ice Edge to MH, were actually willing to risk THEIR OWN money in order to keep the Coyotes in Glendale. As much as the NHL wants a team in Phoenix, they are not even willing to absorb the loses! Yet for some reason, the taxpayers are supposed to foot the bill?

The GWI objects to this....and next on their agenda is teaching evolution??

If the NHL wanted to keep the team in glendale for another year, they could easily do it. However, the 29 other owners seem to know it a money-losing venture and hence, time is running out.

 

[CBJ goalie]

wow, sports media are really bloody stupid.

How do they let Bettman maintain that it's "personal" on the part of Goldwater Institute and that's why they're behaving as they do?

One, simple, question, for Bettman.

Do you think, given the economic situation, that it is appropriate for Glendale to underwrite the team with taxpayer money?

Given that the bonds are backed up with city revenues, that's exactly what the situation is, and what Goldwater objects to.

Of course, the NHL feeds off of cities and states, getting public funding for the stadiums in which their franchises play. And when someone objects to this setup, they call it personal?

Get ONE decent reporter in that news conference, and Bettman would be torn to shreds. Why should the public be subsidizing a league where the millionaires are employed by billionaire owners?

Whether you like them or not, Goldwater IS providing a public service. I'm FAR from a right winger, but I wish we had the equivalent here in BC.

Came here to post these thoughts - well said.
I would have loved for someone to ask him a question along the lines of:
"Seeing as how the sale of the Sabres to Mr. Pegula and the sale of the Lightning to Mr. Vinik was completed with their own money, how do you feel about relying on the taxpayers of Glendale to foot the sale of the Coyotes?"

And while watching his interview last night, my wifey commented "He's lying - he's touched his nose a couple of times, that's usually the sign that someone is lying when they're speaking."

 

[GKJ]

Bettman's doing his best to make sure everyone knows who the scapegoat is for this. Let's not forget that.

 

[Hamilton Tigers]

why on earth does Bettman act so stupid when it comes to Goldwater?

Those were my thoughts too. GB is a very smart man, so what's up with the "stupid" act?

Who is Goldwater accountable to? How dare they go against the duly elected council's deal?

Hello? You said the word your self, Gary. "Accountability".

Whether you agree with the GWI or not, how can he expect us to believe that he does not know that GWI's purpose is hold the duly elected council accountable?

That presser was laughable and sad, if not insulting, and embarrassing. GB is smarter than that.

It's as if he's been given a mission by the BoG, and he knows he's on the verge of failing.

I still wouldn't be surprised to see him pull the rabbit out of the hat.

 

[jessebelanger]

Any chance we can get back to focusing on the sale of this team? This thread had once again become overrun by the same old discussions on Winnipeg and Bettman.

 

[Hamilton Tigers]

Forgive my arrogance as I havent done any research in regards to this subject.

Question?

If the Coyotes leave, could the city of Glendale entertain another solution? An AHL team, an AFL team, indoor soccer? I do realize the Coyotes would be the large draw, but could there be something else that could keep the economy going?

Agreed. And what's this notion of the arena going dark?

41 homes games leaves another 321 open dates for other events.

 

[Ciao]

Blame Goldwater all you like, but they didn't bungle the bond sale. Glendale knew on Dec. 14 that the constitutional validity of the sale was in question. Any competent litigator would take about ten minutes to figure out that a declaratory order might be needed to clear the path. If Glendale had not dropped the ball, it would have figured that out by 10 a.m. on Dec. 15th, and started work on its own court application before noon the same day. Waiting for someone who may or may not sue to bring an application for an injunction surrenders complete control of the issue, and amounts to no strategy at all.

 

[FrostySnoKat]

So a guy walks into a council meeting and says "I don't think your team is worth 170 million, but I'll pony up 70 mil if you kick in the rest. I'll also agree to keep the team here until the cows come home, but you'll have to pay me 90 mil over the next 5 years to manage them."
That has bad karma written all over it.

To the Coyotes fans who say "we love the team and support them".
Well, if there were about 10,000 more on a regular basis, we wouldn't have this thread (continued from 25 other threads) to spout off in because the team wouldn't be in this mess.

It is destined to lose approximately 40 million this year, less if the team has a decent playoff run. I don't think that will turn around any time soon.

 

[KimiFerrari]

I think this looks like the final phase.

Everyone gets to justify why it went down, without them looking bad. GB can blame CoG and GWI, CoG can blame GWI and GWI can blame big government and act as heroes.

 

[Hamilton Tigers]

Actually, I think the question Bettman asked is a lot more relevant - why is GWI allowed to do this when they appear to answer to absolutely no one?

Do you actually mean that no one should be allowed to hold government accountable?

It is government that needs to answer to the people, not the GWI.

If the GWI is engaging in illegal activity then proceed with the proper legal action against them. That's how they're held accountable.

Both have threatened legal action against each other, and nothing has yet been filed. Mexican standoff.