Phoenix XXIX: What's the next act? I'm tired of the dog & pony show

[Bryan574]

If this team bails....I hope it isn't to Winnipeg.
So...you might be describing a few people on these boards, but not me.

Im with you on this one Jeff , although I think the Peg is the mandate if this falls through.

 

[seanlinden]

Not necessarily true.



Less likely true, IMO.

Elected officials are there to represent the interest of their citizens. They all likely have an interest in getting re-elected, so they would not be acting outside of the citizens' best interest.

Do you even read what you type? This is completely false. It's more relevant then anything right now. If it wasn't relevant we wouldn't be here right now.

What I posted is completely true. Governments should be allowed to do what is in the best interest of the citizens unless the law prevents them from doing so, that's what they are in place to do.

 

[Larabee]

As much as I like to jump on the "hate Garry Bettman" bandwagon, I think Winnipeg fans have misjudged him. His stubborn resistance to pull the plug on this deal isn’t because he loves Phoenix, or hates Winnipeg, it’s only because he is obligated to sell the Atlanta franchise for an existing owner. What Bettman is doing right now is just buying time for Atlanta to sort out their ownership situation.
The worst case scenario for Bettman is if he allows Phoenix to move to Winnipeg right now AND the Thrashers can’t close on a deal to sell to local investors. His existing owner in Atlanta is left high and dry and Bettman has failed to keep his promise. The best case scenario for Bettman is to sell Phoenix to Hulsizer and sell Atlanta to local investors. But the odds of that are low considering the tight deadlines.
So look for one of the following scenarios to happen before mid April
1) Atlanta sells to local buyers. This frees Bettman to sell Phoenix to TNSE.
2) The Atlanta investors back away. This frees Bettman to sell Atlanta to TNSE. He then asks his BoG to pick one of two options …. Maintain ownership of Phoenix for another year OR sell to Hulsizer at a discounted price. Either way, the owners will have to pony up.
3) Atlanta sells to local buyers AND the NHL manages to close the deal with Hulsizer.

 

[RAgIn]

I didn't see this information posted yet, so here it is:

Dregger:

Matt Hulsizer has done all he can to address concerns and appease those who continue to oppose the structure of his deal with the city of Glendale and the National Hockey League to buy the Phoenix Coyotes.

Sources close to Hulsizer say the Chicago businessman has passed his limit in terms of what he's comfortable doing financially to close the sale.

Well, I guess that "letter" was his last "concession".

Hulsizer has no intention of submitting a deadline, or threatening to bail. Instead, he will wait for either the city or the NHL to step up to make the next move.

What the next move is, is uncertain. But the league remains confident and acknowledges there are other strategies in play that could remedy what once again appears to be a dire situation.

Im surprised that the league is still confident. What else is there left to do? Oh yeah, sell bonds at near or over 9% interest. Good luck.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/dregerreport/

 

[BrianSTC]

If this team bails....I hope it isn't to Winnipeg.

Just curious as to where you would want it to go and why?

 

[jamo27]

Governments should be allowed to do what is in the best interest of the citizens unless the law prevents them from doing so... but again, that's 100% irrelevant to the discussion at hand, as whether or not they'd be breaking the law is highly debatable at best.

Sean, this is entirely the crux of the whole debate here.

 

[RAgIn]

Elected officials are there to represent the interest of their citizens. They all likely have an interest in getting re-elected, so they would not be acting outside of the citizens' best interest.


What I posted is completely true. Governments should be allowed to do what is in the best interest of the citizens unless the law prevents them from doing so, that's what they are in place to do.

Well, there's this new thing called the Gift Clause, apparently the city is trying to either circumvent this clause or disregard it all together.

The GWI has been the only group, thus far, who has questioned the legality of this deal. Laws are often broken by government officials. Let's keep that in mind. The only thing left to do is take this matter to the courts and see which side is more astute to the Gift Clause. Winners and losers.

 

[wpgallday1960]

Just curious as to where you would want it to go and why?

Please do not get into this with him. Despite all rational arguments with Winnipeg as the best option right now he will argue that another US location or Hamilton is the best relocation option.

 

[crazed323]

Elected officials are there to represent the interest of their citizens. They all likely have an interest in getting re-elected, so they would not be acting outside of the citizens' best interest.



What I posted is completely true. Governments should be allowed to do what is in the best interest of the citizens unless the law prevents them from doing so, that's what they are in place to do.

Yes elecet officials are there to represent the best interests of their citizens. Why wouldn't they? For exactly the reason that you stated, to ensure that their track record of acting in the best interests of their citizens goes untarnished. The coyotes leaving makes the city council and westgate a failure. The only way for this image not to stick to those on city council is to keep the coyotes.


As for your reply to my reply. I agree with you but you missed my point as I had explained what part of your statement was false. I should have made it more clear that saying the legality of the deal was irrelevant to the discussion at hand. It is completely false to imply that it is irrelevant. Count it

 

[Confucius]

Why all the public statements from MH? What other remedies could the NHL have? Maybe another owner?

 

[seanlinden]

Well, there's this new thing called the Gift Clause, apparently the city is trying to either circumvent this clause or disregard all together. The GWI has been the only group, thus far, who has questioned the legality of the deal. Laws are often broken by government officials. Let's keep that in mind. The only thing left to do is take this matter to the courts and see which side is more astute to the Gift Clause.

Well, there's this thing called the gift clause, which the rogue 3rd party has used to committ tortous interference and ensure that that taxpayers of Glendale get a bad deal.

A gift is something that is bestowed upon another without the expectation of compensation. CoG is getting compensation in the form of a NHL hockey team and 30 year arena lease that they reasonably expect to be worth the money that they are using to subsidize the Coyotes now, because they are elected officials trying to act in the City's best interest.

The funny thing is -- people suggest an AHL team as a good idea. Last I checked, the reason the Coyotes moved out of the US Airways Center was because there were only 16,210 seats for hockey, many of which were obstructed. If I'm a potential AHL owner, I'm looking at San Antonio & Houston as the models for my success in the south, I don't care if my capacity is only 10,000, and I'm going to the US Airways Center. For me to go to Glendale, I'd have to be getting one hell of a deal from them.

Yes elecet officials are there to represent the best interests of their citizens. Why wouldn't they? For exactly the reason that you stated, to ensure that their track record of acting in the best interests of their citizens goes untarnished. The coyotes leaving makes the city council and westgate a failure. The only way for this image not to stick to those on city council is to keep the coyotes.


As for your reply to my reply. I agree with you but you missed my point as I had explained what part of your statement was false. I should have made it more clear that saying the legality of the deal was irrelevant to the discussion at hand. It is completely false to imply that it is irrelevant. Count it

The Coyotes & Westgate were not done by the current city council, so there goes that theory of yours. Thee only way for them to act in the best interest of their citizens is to actually do so, and do what it takes to utilize the infrastructure to create jobs and tax revenues.

It's irrelevant because what they are doing is not illegal.

 

[RAgIn]

It seems like everyone needs to relax a little bit. Here's a little un-biased humor.

Lawless:

I mean, are you kidding me? From the Ice Edge boys to the Goldwater Institute to the City of Glendale dupes and now a former presidential candidate -- this has been the most bizarre attempt at selling a hockey team, since, well, Slapshot.

McCain put his once considerable political heft on the line only to have his own people, the libertarian Goldwater Institute, tell him "thanks but no thanks."

One of the most powerful Republicans in the United States took his swing at saving the Coyotes on Sunday night and came up with a big, fat handful of nothing

Who knew this whole ordeal would turn political. Not me.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/columnists/coyotes-saga-well-past-ridiculous-118416464.html

 

[Killion]

H) Stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
edit: Damn, Evil Doctor beat me to it.

actually, you nailed it earlier
with the clothier's commercial.

I) "I guarantee it" .

"I'll make you llook Lawyerly, or my name isnt Sy Sperling".....

Im surprised that the league is still confident. What else is there left to do? Oh yeah, sell bonds at near or over 9% interest.

Purportedly at 8%, but hey, whats another $50M between friends?.
Bonds Away. Tally-Ho. Giddyup. Enough already with the stagefright.

 

[knorthern knight]

As others have mentioned, maybe the best for all involved is to let team move, and start anew with an expansion franchise, learning from past mistakes. if the market is as valuable as the NHL says it is, then what's the problem?

But this time, find a potential owner who has sufficient wealth to buy the team himself. What Glendale is proposing is a sub-prime mortgage loan on steroids, and we know how well that went.

 

[BrianSTC]

Please do not get into this with him. Despite all rational arguments with Winnipeg as the best option right now he will argue that another US location or Hamilton is the best relocation option.

I honestly don't think Hamilton's an option (should I assume Jeffrey is from Hamilton?). However, I am curious to know if there are any other cities with an owner and an arena in place other than Winnipeg?

 

[wpgallday1960]

I honestly don't think Hamilton's an option (should I assume Jeffrey is from Hamilton?). However, I am curious to know if there are any other cities with an owner and an arena in place other than Winnipeg?

This will not stop him from suggesting Winnipeg does not deserve an NHL team.

 

[Jack Bauer]

The "gift clause" was put in place because politicians rarely act in the best interest of the taxpayers.

Also, you must have missed the AZ supreme court ruling that clarified some of the statutes of the law. You also must have missed the part of the law that forbids the use of the muni's credit.

Jfried/Sean Linden isn't interested in your facts.

He's only interested in what his opinion of the situation was and regardless of what transpires what his opinion was absolutely has to be right and arguing with him is pointless.

Just look at the guys avatar....still calling Phaneuf a senseless acquisition just makes him a senseless poster.....I wonder how many accounts he has on here agreeing with himself.

This team can't move to Winnipeg soon enough. There's no way the deal in place is legal or else the initials GWI would simply not exist here. Lawyers have acknowledged that they have a case, how much of one is what's to be argued, we're well beyond the point arguing of whether they are right or wrong regardless of what Coyote supporters want to hear. It should be up to the Arizona courts now where the proper decision to the people of Arizona will be made, rather then simply giving in to a desperate city council trying to save their cushy political positions of power.

 

[RAgIn]

Well, there's this thing called the gift clause, which the rogue 3rd party has used to committ tortous interference and ensure that that taxpayers of Glendale get a bad deal.

A gift is something that is bestowed upon another without the expectation of compensation. CoG is getting compensation in the form of a NHL hockey team and 30 year arena lease that they reasonably expect to be worth the money that they are using to subsidize the Coyotes now, because they are elected officials trying to act in the City's brest interest.



The Coyotes & Westgate were not done by the current city council, so there goes that theory of yours. Thee only way for them to act in the best interest of their citizens is to actually do so, and do what it takes to utilize the infrastructure to create jobs and tax revenues.

It's irrelevant because what they are doing is not illegal.

We can argue till infinity, but if the COG doesn't sue for tortous interference, at least not yet, than you have to wonder if they are skeptical of it passing in a court of law. Plus, IMO, the GWI actions might fall on the 1st amendment act.

Best interest? Both camps seem to be playing that game, huh. It's just that one of the groups are elected by the public. Either way, government officials are often wrong and often not re-elected, because of various issues. That's why citizens vote.

FACT: They should just do a referendum and end all the madness. I wonder how many people would actually show up?

 

[crazed323]

Well, there's this thing called the gift clause, which the rogue 3rd party has used to committ tortous interference and ensure that that taxpayers of Glendale get a bad deal.

A gift is something that is bestowed upon another without the expectation of compensation. CoG is getting compensation in the form of a NHL hockey team and 30 year arena lease that they reasonably expect to be worth the money that they are using to subsidize the Coyotes now, because they are elected officials trying to act in the City's best interest.

The funny thing is -- people suggest an AHL team as a good idea. Last I checked, the reason the Coyotes moved out of the US Airways Center was because there were only 16,210 seats for hockey, many of which were obstructed. If I'm a potential AHL owner, I'm looking at San Antonio & Houston as the models for my success in the south, I don't care if my capacity is only 10,000, and I'm going to the US Airways Center. For me to go to Glendale, I'd have to be getting one hell of a deal from them.



The Coyotes & Westgate were not done by the current city council, so there goes that theory of yours. Thee only way for them to act in the best interest of their citizens is to actually do so, and do what it takes to utilize the infrastructure to create jobs and tax revenues.

It's irrelevant because what they are doing is not illegal.

Glendale’s Mayor and City Council and Coyote officials made the announcement today at a 10 a.m. press conference at City Hall. Earlier in the day, the City Council approved a memo of understanding with the Ellman Companies, owner of the team, that will keep the team in Glendale for 30 years.

“This is a huge victory for the city of Glendale, Glendale residents and for hockey fans throughout Arizona,” said Glendale Mayor Elaine M. Scruggs. “The arena and surrounding development will positively impact Glendale and will eventually become the heart of the West Valley.

http://hockey.ballparks.com/NHL/PhoenixCoyotes/newindex.htm

The bottom paragraph is quoting then Mayor Scruggs about the new glendale arena and westgate developement. Are you saying that this person is an imposter. She was only posing as the mayor back then. Count it

 

[Jack Bauer]

I honestly don't think Hamilton's an option (should I assume Jeffrey is from Hamilton?). However, I am curious to know if there are any other cities with an owner and an arena in place other than Winnipeg?

No.

For the simple fact the the NHL has owners and an arena in Winnipeg that will meet BOG approval.

I don't think that combination exists elsewhere. Maybe Kansas City, but that's an unknown in a situation where there's no time for unknowns to really jump in.

The NHL's options certainly seem to be Glendale or Winnipeg. The fact it's even a decision is what's wrong with the NHL, let alone the mess that is, was, and always will be the Phoenix Coyotes.

 

[RAgIn]

actually, you nailed it earlier
with the clothier's commercial.

I) "I guarantee it" .

"I'll make you llook Lawyerly, or my name isnt Sy Sperling".....



Purportedly at 8%, but hey, whats another $50M between friends?.
Bonds Away. Tally-Ho. Giddyup. Enough already with the stagefright.

I'd really like to hear that potential conversation between the COG and Bettman. You need to sell your bonds at 9%. We need to save face here. Moyes, Ballsillie, GWI and Canada have all screwed us. Let's do this. Watergate scandal anyone?

 

[The Pouzar]

A gift is something that is bestowed upon another without the expectation of compensation. CoG is getting compensation in the form of a NHL hockey team and 30 year arena lease that they reasonably expect to be worth the money that they are using to subsidize the Coyotes now, because they are elected officials trying to act in the City's best interest.

According to the Gift Clause the revenue generated by the AMULA, etc are not relevant. The only revenue which can be used to justify the 100m purchase of the 30 years of the parking rights at Jobbing are the revenues generated by the parking lot and nothing else.
That's a wonderful definition of a gift, but the gift clause is defined here.
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=c34df047-4657-437b-9fe7-7c1e0d85cbb8

 

[seanlinden]

We can argue till infinity, but if the COG doesn't sue for tortous interference, at least not yet, than you have to wonder if they are skeptical of it passing in a court of law. Plus, IMO, the GWI actions might fall on the 1st amendment act.

Best interest? Both camps seem to be playing that game, huh. It's just one of the groups are elected by the public. Either way, government officials are often wrong and often not re-elected, because of various issues. That's why citizens vote.

FACT: They should just do a referendum and end all the madness. I wonder how many people would actually show up?

The CoG simply cannot afford to drag this out into a lawsuit, as it'll cost them the team in the process.

Both are trying to play the best interest card, only the elected officials have been sincere about it, whereas Goldwater has been saying one thing and forcing interest rates up at the same time.

http://hockey.ballparks.com/NHL/PhoenixCoyotes/newindex.htm

The bottom paragraph is quoting then Mayor Scruggs about the new glendale arena and westgate developement. Are you saying that this person is an imposter. She was only posing as the mayor back then. Count it

Their city council has changed in the past 8 years.

 

[mikelvl]

No.

For the simple fact the the NHL has owners and an arena in Winnipeg that will meet BOG approval.

I don't think that combination exists elsewhere. Maybe Kansas City, but that's an unknown in a situation where there's no time for unknowns to really jump in.

The NHL's options certainly seem to be Glendale or Winnipeg. The fact it's even a decision is what's wrong with the NHL, let alone the mess that is, was, and always will be the Phoenix Coyotes.

If you're really Jack Bauer, then you will move the team to Winnipeg yourself and thwart a couple of random terrorist attacks all within the next 24 hours.

 

[Navin RJ]

Previous thread: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=891612

with all due respect for yote fans, keeping in mind imo its 50/50 whether they move, but Maloney (coyote GM) said hes falling behind other teams in terms of signing players bc he doesn't know where they will be next year and Aucoin stated its finally starting to affect players and there families. At what point does TNSE step in and make it known that it is in their best interests to have a team that isn't totally torn apart by the time they arrive here. Or does TNSE just sit back and let the NHL and Glendale make a mess of this team? The NHL won't say anything until all home games are played, in order to cover some losses. So we sit by and let the NHL make a few more bucks at the expense of the team that we have been waiting 16 years for...? I for one am not "just happy to be here" TSNE needs to grow some balls, without pulling a Ballsile... lastly I would rather not have a NHL team in WPG if it moves here only to lose the whole time then move after everyone gets sick of losing.