Phoenix XXIII - Bond: The Phoenix Project

[AllByDesign]

1. If Glendale tries to go ahead with the sale is 9.0 % interest enough to sell them considering the possible legal risks associated with the bonds.

The gift clause does not encompass 3rd party consideration. This is why most people believe the 100 million for parking rights will pass the Turken decision. 6% 9% 28%, doesn't matter. Of course it is up to council to look at the budget and decide what interest rate they can accomodate.

Double Post. Sorry. But while I have you on the line, whats with Sunnucks that he would think a guy like Hulsizer would be shopping for another team?. This guy is strictly an OPM operator.

Sunnucks has a defective Ouija board. He realized he had left something burning in the oven while he was trying to channel the spirit of his deceased canine, and took his hands off of the viewfinder too early. Ever since then he hasn't been able to control the messages... TNSE sending secret agents and the like.

 

[AllByDesign]

Of note, since it had been discussed what "Fallout" can occur from surrounding establishments when an anchor vacates its arena. My trusty assistant here has informed me that when the Jets moved to Phoenix, it was "Chi-Chi's" and "Fingers" that suffered. All of the local retail maintained in the surrounding area. Of course there are now 7 or 8 new major restaurants that have established themselves in the area since that time.

 

[Killion]

Or to take an even extremely long range look, when the Hamilton Tigers relocated in 1925, the city's population was around 120,000 and is currently over 500,000 and it's arena, the Barton Street Arena, built in 1910, continued to exist until 1977 and was host to both Senior and Major Junior hockey teams...

Now theres a weird one; The Quebec City Bull Dogs are relo'd to Hamilton, becoming the Tigers, the players strike, the league suspends the franchise & moves it to NY where they are variously called the Brooklyn & NY Americans, run effectively by proxy by the league itself; eventually contracted altogether. Shades of Glendale with plenty of irony to go around.... Any ya, the olde Barton Barn, Pop Kennesky & the FinCups, Jr.&Sr Tigers.... Take me back to the 5 & Dime Jimmy Dean..... I miss those days, when life was so much simpler....

 

[Killion]

Technical difficulties.... Do not adjust your set....

 

[Killion]

Well this is screwy. Carry on...

 

[ATHF]

Of note, since it had been discussed what "Fallout" can occur from surrounding establishments when an anchor vacates its arena. My trusty assistant here has informed me that when the Jets moved to Phoenix, it was "Chi-Chi's" and "Fingers" that suffered. All of the local retail maintained in the surrounding area. Of course there are now 7 or 8 new major restaurants that have established themselves in the area since that time.

Chi Chi's......now that takes me back...

Adding to what you said, there was virtually no difference to the amount of traffic through the area near the old Arena after '96 and there were businesses that saw some growth afterwards as they had actually been losing business on game nights because people didn't want to deal with the hassle of coming to the area with that much extra traffic.

 

[cbcwpg]

Now theres a weird one; The Quebec City Bull Dogs are relo'd to Hamilton, becoming the Tigers, the players strike, the league suspends the franchise & moves it to NY where they are variously called the Brooklyn & NY Americans, run effectively by proxy by the league itself; eventually contracted altogether. Shades of Glendale with plenty of irony to go around.... And ya, the olde Barton Barn. Pop Kennesky & the FinCups, Jr.&Sr Tigers.... Take me back to the 5 & Dime Jimmy Dean Jimmy Dean....life was so much simpler....

While I like reading your posts, I don't need them in stereo

What I have noticed ( and the MODs can comment ) is that if you go to post and get a database error, DO NOT post again. Your post got through, its just that the DB is having a hickup ( technical term ).

 

[Evil Doctor]

Its' a tuffy. Glendale Arena was built NHL specific and as we know competes directly with 3 other venues in the market for concerts & events.

Of all the examples through history, the Bloomington seems to the most similar to what is happening in Glendale. The similarities: Bloomington is a small suburb of a major city, the arena was built NHL specific, a major commercial development (Mall of America) was close by. The differences: Bloomington didn't have Glendale's debt level, there were no competing venues (at that time) for the Met Center, the Met Center was demolished after the North Stars left, having outlived it's usefulness.

I think the most relevant point though of all this was that after the major sports teams left for greener pastures, Mall of America didn't board up, and in fact, (if Wikipedia is to be believed) they are in a process of a major expansion.

 

[CBJ goalie]

So nice, it had to be said thrice!

Okay, here's a video showing how this will all finally end:


Driver = Bettman
Passenger = Daly
3 kids in the back = Scruggs, Hulsizer and Ellman
Nelson = GWI

 

[roccerfeller]

Sunnucks has a defective Ouija board. He realized he had left something burning in the oven while he was trying to channel the spirit of his deceased canine, and took his hands off of the viewfinder too early. Ever since then he hasn't been able to control the messages... TNSE sending secret agents and the like.

too good...

this is what he gets for choosing the Hasbro brand over the small-creepy-wooden house-in-dark-forest brand

 

[Evil Doctor]

Now theres a weird one; The Quebec City Bull Dogs are relo'd to Hamilton, becoming the Tigers, the players strike, the league suspends the franchise & moves it to NY where they are variously called the Brooklyn & NY Americans, run effectively by proxy by the league itself; eventually contracted altogether. Shades of Glendale with plenty of irony to go around.... Any ya, the olde Barton Barn, Pop Kennesky & the FinCups, Jr.&Sr Tigers.... Take me back to the 5 & Dime Jimmy Dean..... I miss those days, when life was so much simpler....

He deserves his own thread in the History of Hockey section. I got my first pair of skates there (which proved to be a waste of money) and my first bike (which wasn't a waste). I went to my first hockey game at the Forum to watch the Red Wings play the Greyhounds and remember the steel girders among the seats...

(sees Fugu)

...and I must say that I think that Glendale politicians really have to put their egos aside and do some honest number crunching looking at all and really consider whether MH is somebody they should get in bed with...and...ah....uhm...yeah...

 

[Rob]

So nice, it had to be said thrice!

Okay, here's a video showing how this will all finally end:


Driver = Bettman
Passenger = Daly
3 kids in the back = Scruggs, Hulsizer and Ellman
Nelson = GWI

Well played.

 

[MaskedSonja]

So another "Deadline" passes....(still holding to my "bold" Mar 2 prediction lol).


Any ideas when the bonds are going to go on sale? I think CoG, in order to move this forward, has to just sell the bonds and let the chips fall where they may-because what I'm reading in the thread is GWI is NOT going anywhere.

 

[Killion]

He deserves his own thread in the History of Hockey section. I got my first pair of skates there (which proved to be a waste of money) and my first bike (which wasn't a waste). I went to my first hockey game at the Forum to watch the Red Wings play the Greyhounds and remember the steel girders among the seats...

(sees Fugu)

...and I must say that I think that Glendale politicians really have to put their egos aside and do some honest number crunching looking at all and really consider whether MH is somebody they should get in bed with...and...ah....uhm...yeah...

Its almost as Bizarre a situation as the CHCH produced show of the same name starring John Byner; who gets canceled & replaced with Stuntman Dave. He's Last Man Standing. I dont understand how it is they can go right through the wall for this guy when for whatever reason they let Reinsdorf walk. Not even Mastermind Jerry & Mini Me Michael couldve' come up with this one.

So another "Deadline" passes....(still holding to my "bold" Mar 2 prediction lol).


Any ideas when the bonds are going to go on sale? I think CoG, in order to move this forward, has to just sell the bonds and let the chips fall where they may-because what I'm reading in the thread is GWI is NOT going anywhere.

Exactly TL. A little late in the game to be getting Cold Feet. Just do it. Shoulda been done long ago IMO. Whats the Crystal Light there telling you?...

 

[Niagara67]

IMO : If the CoG were to put even 1/10th of the tentacity they've shown in trying to keep the Coyotes into trying to keep a Coyote-less Jobing arena alive, then Jobing will be alive & well for decades to come (even if they have to pay events to stage there). It will never be boarded-up under Scruggs watch.

Edit : For some reason I could see them paying Ice Edge to house an ECHL team there.

 

[Roughneck]

Actually, they left for Phoenix. It was a few years later that Jobing.com was built and they moved to Glendale.

And yet somehow Phoenix managed to carry on

 

[PitbulI]

So nice, it had to be said thrice!

Okay, here's a video showing how this will all finally end:


Driver = Bettman
Passenger = Daly
3 kids in the back = Scruggs, Hulsizer and Ellman
Nelson = GWI

I think about that clip whenever I read a story about the NHL coming back to Winnipeg.

So, if the Coyotes do come back to Winnipeg, a whole new thread must start

Pheonix XXIV - That's it. Back to Winnipeg.
And this video has to start the thread.

I have a feeling many news outlets might use that clip too.

Ellman hasn't professed that he will be ruined if the Coyotes leave. Westgate will be fine. Maybe a couple percent drop in revenue but that will even out over time. Jobing.com arena might be tight for a few years but in time events/sports will find their way there. Glendale shouldn't have been so short sighted in the first place to build an arena for a money losing team.

It's pride right now for a load of board posters. Coyotes fans are like how Jets fans were. Not wanting to lose their team. However, If I was in the same boat as a Glendale taxpayer, I don't care how much I love hockey, that's quite a gamble to keep the team around.

 

[Niagara67]

Or to take an even extremely long range look, when the Hamilton Tigers relocated in 1925, the city's population was around 120,000 and is currently over 500,000 and it's arena, the Barton Street Arena, built in 1910, continued to exist until 1977 and was host to both Senior and Major Junior hockey teams...

There is one example of a ghost town in major pro hockey. In 1910, the first season of the NHA (the direct predecessor of the NHL) had, besides the Montreal Canadiens, teams from small mining & lumber towns with about 5,000 people like Renfrew, Haileybury and Cobalt. Back then, there wasn't much else to do but go to the hockey game.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1910_NHA_season

Cobalt was the largest town in Northern Ontario with 7,000 people. The team lasted one season in the majors. Today, there's only 1,200 since all of the mines have shut down.

Of course there's Dawson City from the 1905 Stanley Cup, but that was a senior amateur team. It had 5,000 then (down from a peak of 40,000) and only 1,300 now.

Needless to say, the demise of major pro hockey did not kill Cobalt.

 

[aj8000]

So another "Deadline" passes....(still holding to my "bold" Mar 2 prediction lol).


Any ideas when the bonds are going to go on sale? I think CoG, in order to move this forward, has to just sell the bonds and let the chips fall where they may-because what I'm reading in the thread is GWI is NOT going anywhere.

I would guess that the COG will decide how they will proceed today during the executive session and the deal will be done one way or another very soon.

 

[RAgIn]

Well a cap of 9% for the bond sale has hit the media. WFP states,

It's unknown if Glendale is willing or in the postion to go along with Hulsizer with the extra cost of $100 million added to the city's expense. Glendale gave its city manager a cap of nine per cent for yield on the bonds. Anything above nine per cent in interest payments would have to be approved by council.

The NHL has put no deadline on the sale of the Coyotes but the transaction has dragged on and reports suggest the league is losing patience. According to Goldwater lawyer Carrie Ann Sitren, Glendale hired lawyer Jordan Rose last week to tell the institute the NHL would kill the transaction unless Goldwater agreed not to file suit.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/hockey/coyotes-purchase-no-closer-to-closing-117135928.html

 

[PitbulI]

Who says that the bond will be higher than 9%.

Also, if Mayor Scuggs got to the new councillor that voted no, we could be back to 5-2. I'd also like to hear why each of the councillors voted the way they did, including the Mayor and "Listen the meeting, it was talked about already" isn't good enough.

Who really thinks that the COG board will now vote against this deal. Remember, this is to save Glendale, not taxpayers. The city itself must be saved.

So, board up the arena, pay how much for the loan?

Or,

Pay the bond and interest of probably 12-15 million a year, pay 20 million in arena management fees and then still pay the arena loan. Wow, good deal Glendale, you better keep going.

 

[smokes]

Does it not seem odd to anyone that simply by bumping up the rate from 4 or five percent to 8 or 9 percent, that the bonds will sell with a lawsuit hovering above? Is a three or four point pop enough to get investors to buy these under these circumstances (including the controversey surrounding potential revenue from parking)? Not sure I would touch the bonds unless GWI publically stated that they had reached an agreement with the COG and would not sue.

Is the talk of a higher rate, then, merely posturing if GWI isn't on side?

 

[Niagara67]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/hockey/coyotes-purchase-no-closer-to-closing-117135928.html

That grainy picture of Hulzy looks like it came from a bank's security camera.

 

[King Woodballs]

That grainy picture of Hulzy looks like it came from a bank's security camera.

yeah he is at the RBC waiting for the CoG's money to enter is own account

 

[y2kcanucks]

So I'm guessing the bond sales are still imminent and will happen within the next 2 weeks?