Phoenix XXIII - Bond: The Phoenix Project

[blues10]

^^^^ who would have thought that it would ever come to this?

 

[CasualFan]

They don't need signed documents, however, if their intention is to stop the sale of the bonds, since it is the bond sale that allegedly causes the taxpayers' harm. There is no Catch-22 here. They could sue to stop the deal if they can demonstrate, based upon the already available public documents, most importantly the bond offering, that the contemplated deal is in violation of the constitution. Other than gamesmenship, and the need to avoid posting their own bond if they sue for an injuction and lose on the merits later, there is no good reason to not bring suit if the deal is, in their opinion, unconstitutional.

Again, do you really think they lack the information to make that evaluation? Really....

As respectfully as I can submit this, I would assert that everything that you have posted is completely inconsistent with procedure.

- The bond sale itself does not represent a violation of the constitution. Therefore, there would be no intent to prevent such an offering.

- The bond sale does not represent the entirety of the proposed transaction. Therefore, there would be no effort to divide the bond sale from the rest of the agreement. (Moreover, the test for consideration is weighed against the entire agreement, not selected pieces of it, so there would be no specific challenge of the bond sale under any conditions.)

- Contemplated agreements do not violate the constitution. Therefore, there would be no action forthcoming until there was an executed agreement.

- Judges have a multitude of remedies at their disposal. A cure that makes the public whole even after the bond sale is possible. Therefore, it is not necessary to provide injunctive relief in order to protect the taxpayers from an unconstitutional deal.

There is simply nothing even remotely accurate in your accusations or your understanding of Goldwater's available options at this time. You comments seem more uniquely suited for an Emotion of Hockey board rather than a Business of Hockey discussion.

 

[Brodie]

can we all agree that it seems highly unlikely that tomorrow is a real drop dead date?

 

[Grumpz]

can we all agree that it seems highly unlikely that tomorrow is a real drop dead date?

Why not? The CoG will never pull the plug and GWI isn't going to back down. These two will go at it indefinitely, so at some point, the NHL will have to put an end to this.

I wouldn't bet money it's tomorrow, but it easily could be.

 

[cbcwpg]

can we all agree that it seems highly unlikely that tomorrow is a real drop dead date?

Ask me at 11:59:59 pm on March 1. There is no drop dead date until Bettman makes an annoucement either way. That will be the drop dead date. I would have better luck picking lotto 6-49 winners than picking a drop dead date.

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

can we all agree that it seems highly unlikely that tomorrow is a real drop dead date?

I don't know, McCown seems convinced there's a deadline sometime in the coming days (not necessarily tomorrow though).

After being the first to report that the bond sale failed, I'm somewhat inclined to believe him.

 

[pegcity]

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/pts/PTS-2011-02-28-4-pm.mp3

3/4 down

 

[Confucius]

Why not? The CoG will never pull the plug and GWI isn't going to back down. These two will go at it indefinitely, so at some point, the NHL will have to put an end to this.

I wouldn't bet money it's tomorrow, but it easily could be.

I'd take Thursday and we probably hear about it Friday.

 

[Grumpz]

I'd take Thursday and we probably hear about it Friday.

I sure hope so! It's not like an announcement of a move will harm the Coyotes playoff hopes. As for the lost revenue, it may might things difficult on the market your leaving, but would be beneficial to the market you're returning too.

 

[PitbulI]

Here's a question for Goyotes.

Do you feel that if the COG pays 9% or more for these bonds, that this is still a smart venture for the COG to pursue and finalize?

Do you feel that attendance will get better with increased ticket prices and paid parking? Enough to make enough to pay interest and principle on the bond?

Do feel good enough putting your tax dollars towards the management fee?

In saying that, do you feel good about putting your tax dollars to cover the interest and principle if by chance the parking does not pay for the bonds?

Now, we all know that the Coyotes are the main tennant but there is no way the arena would simply shut down if they left. I still feel that Bettman will come save the day somehow.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

can we all agree that it seems highly unlikely that tomorrow is a real drop dead date?

Unanimous agreement is highly unlikely on these boards.

Also of interest, new article by Sunnucks:

Prospective buyer Matthew Hulsizer could end up taking his money to another market if the Phoenix Coyotes saga drags on much longer, or Glendale’s $197 million package and bond sale to finance a Coyotes sale falls apart.

There are several National Hockey League franchises — including the New Jersey Devils and Dallas Stars — that are, or could be, up for sale.

Sources familiar with the Coyotes situation said the deal with Hulsizer may only have a few days to get done, or the entire package could fall apart.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...-ticks-again-on-coyotes-hulsizer.html?ana=twt

GHOST

 

[RECCE]

Matt sure likes to talk, doesn't he? Back off (unless you think it's unconstitutional). Closing is imminent (unless the team relocates).

lol, no kidding.

 

[LT_Canadian]

MH could take his money somewhere else...pardon....what money?

 

[pegcity]

Even if the Coyotes move I'm sure they'd be a possible spot for expansion when the recession lifts. How many more years does US Airways Centre have before it needs replacing. 10-15 maybe?

 

[VOB]

MH could take his money somewhere else...pardon....what money?

No doubt! I think he'd be hard pressed to find another group of suckers....er I mean county or municpal council that would be willing to mortgage away everything for a franchise that few care about.

 

[Confucius]

Unanimous agreement is highly unlikely on these boards.

Also of interest, new article by Sunnucks:



http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...-ticks-again-on-coyotes-hulsizer.html?ana=twt

GHOST

Well I don't know where the writer got that number but if it's correct, holy crap Moyes must have been down right FRUGAL

who are now losing approximately $45 million a year

Read more: Clock ticks again on Coyotes, Hulsizer deal as Goldwater lawsuit lingers | Phoenix Business Journal

 

[PitbulI]

There's another team that is wanting to sell for 70 million dollars?

I feel that MH could get part ownership in a team maybe.

No matter what, until Bettman announces the deal is gone, I won't believe anything I read. I still feel Bettman is working behind the scene to get someone, including the NHL to pony up 100 million that MH needs.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Also of interest from the Sunnucks' article:

If the bond deal goes south, it’s likely the National Hockey League would quickly sell the Coyotes — who are now losing approximately $45 million a year — to a Winnipeg ownership group who will move the team back to Canada. And, Hulsizer will go look at buying another team.

GHOST

 

[Evil Doctor]

Also of interest, new article by Sunnucks:

Prospective buyer Matthew Hulsizer could end up taking his money to another market

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...-ticks-again-on-coyotes-hulsizer.html?ana=twt

GHOST

Why is the NHL even this carpetbagger the time of day? He clearly is not even close to be worthy member of their little club. At best he is another Len Barrie, at worse he is another Boots DelBaggio. It's like the NHL has a horizontal line for a learning curve when it comes to prospective owners....

(and on a personal note: Yea! Doktor Frogg is back!)

 

[AllByDesign]

Sounds reeeeealy comitted to Glendale... If you believe the report that is. Which I don't.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

There's another team that is wanting to sell for 70 million dollars?

I feel that MH could get part ownership in a team maybe.

No matter what, until Bettman announces the deal is gone, I won't believe anything I read. I still feel Bettman is working behind the scene to get someone, including the NHL to pony up 100 million that MH needs.

It would be funny if he went and plunked down $200 mm somewhere else.

The NHL won't buy the bonds.

 

[Confucius]

It's like the NHL has a horizontal line for a learning curve when it comes to prospective owners....

This made me laugh.......thanks

 

[cbcwpg]

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...-ticks-again-on-coyotes-hulsizer.html?ana=twt

GHOST

Prospective buyer Matthew Hulsizer could end up taking his money to another market if the Phoenix Coyotes saga drags on much longer

Sure, go ahead and try and buy another NHL team in another market with your $70M. Sorry, Matt, but if this deal falls through, no other city on the face of the planet is going to give you a sweet heart deal like your getting in Glendale. In, fact, now that Bettman has seen the kind of money you really have, I wouldn't expect him to be answering your phone calls either.

With the kind of money Hulsizer is throwing around, he would be lucky to buy an ECHL team like his IEH buddies were talking about.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

And the answer is .... yes. Without a doubt, if the sale would be illegal and/or unconstitutional .... yes. In fact, suit should be brought before the harm, illegal activity/unconstitutional transaction occurrs.

I think the council authorized a sale of the bonds and the City ordinance allows up to 9%. I'm sure the CoG will try and get the best rate they can, which is why there is so much out there now about the GWI needing to back off. As to the higher interest rate going to a gift, I don't think the GWI can make that claim given they would be at least one of the greatest factors in why the bonds sold at a higher rate. I'm sure the CoG would bring in experts that the GWI would have a hard time rebutting that would testify that the cloud of the GWI's litigation threat was the factor in raising the interest rate.

Having said that, I'm not completely sure that a court will not take into consideration the interest rate when looking at whether what the City was paying was grossly disproportionate the what direct benefits it was receiving.

Right..........

The interest rate and their other debt downgrade is not solely tied to the GI potential lawsuit. If you would bother to read the reports, they feel that the debt level is too high for the city and that the new issue subordinates other debt with regards to liens on the excise tax revenue stream. Lastly, you can always find credible people arguing both ways on any topic, otherwise why let both sides present "expert witnesses"?

My response would be consistent with what MH said. The CoG should have given the document to them earlier.

They don't need signed documents, however, if their intention is to stop the sale of the bonds, since it is the bond sale that allegedly causes the taxpayers' harm. There is no Catch-22 here. They could sue to stop the deal if they can demonstrate, based upon the already available public documents, most importantly the bond offering, that the contemplated deal is in violation of the constitution. Other than gamesmenship, and the need to avoid posting their own bond if they sue for an injuction and lose on the merits later, there is no good reason to not bring suit if the deal is, in their opinion, unconstitutional.

Again, do you really think they lack the information to make that evaluation? Really....

It is not against any rule or law for the CoG to issue bonds.

My take,

1) The GWI, based on the documents they already have at the moment, feel that the deal is on the wrong side of the law and are ready to sue.

2) I also believe that the GWI is not out to send the Yotes packing from Glendale and knows that a lawsuit will kill the deal immediately

3) The COG keeps insisting that the deal is on side and wants the GWI to drop the case.

4) Based on the above, the GWI, has not filed suit and keeps telling the COG to prove it.

5) Considering the GWI is still receiving documents from the COG, I do not think the COG would have a case against the GWI in respect to delaying the suit and causing harm to the COG. If the COG gave everything to the GWI in December and the GWI was still delaying, then I would tend to agree with you.

Bingo......

As respectfully as I can submit this, I would assert that everything that you have posted is completely inconsistent with procedure.

- The bond sale itself does not represent a violation of the constitution. Therefore, there would be no intent to prevent such an offering.

- The bond sale does not represent the entirety of the proposed transaction. Therefore, there would be no effort to divide the bond sale from the rest of the agreement. (Moreover, the test for consideration is weighed against the entire agreement, not selected pieces of it, so there would be no specific challenge of the bond sale under any conditions.)

- Contemplated agreements do not violate the constitution. Therefore, there would be no action forthcoming until there was an executed agreement.

- Judges have a multitude of remedies at their disposal. A cure that makes the public whole even after the bond sale is possible. Therefore, it is not necessary to provide injunctive relief in order to protect the taxpayers from an unconstitutional deal.

There is simply nothing even remotely accurate in your accusations or your understanding of Goldwater's available options at this time. You comments seem more uniquely suited for an Emotion of Hockey board rather than a Business of Hockey discussion.

Double bingo........

There's another team that is wanting to sell for 70 million dollars?

I feel that MH could get part ownership in a team maybe.

No matter what, until Bettman announces the deal is gone, I won't believe anything I read. I still feel Bettman is working behind the scene to get someone, including the NHL to pony up 100 million that MH needs.

Selling for $70 mil, probably none. Worth $70 mil, a lot.

 

[TheLegend]

upshall traded to columbus. coincidence?

Nope.... irony...... it was a strategic move. Jovanowski may not be available until the playoffs (if at all) and to get a replacement they had to give up something.