Phoenix XXI: When will then be now?

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Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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Any team can have hard times; how about this dity from 1941-42...

"Frank Patrick suffered a heart attack and had to sell his interest in the Montreal Canadiens, and the Habs almost had to move to Cleveland."

But when the hard times become the norm, then it's a bit more serious; hence the demise of the California Golden Seals and other similar teams.

Ya, thats an interesting aside about the Habs', who were actually in fairly hot water financially for some time dating back to the time when the Maroons' were around. It wasnt until after WW2 & the arrival of Maurice Richard that the team really turned the corner. I also agree that if the patient's terminal, the only humane thing to do is pull the plug, regardless of how many Quacks have come along to either help or rob the sick. In the Coyotes case, it may be the only remedy (Where for Art Thou Jerry Reinsdorf?), sparing the COG whats almost certain to be a huge burden for years that they cannot afford; the league its face. As for Saint Mathew, I suggest he dig into his own jeans & cough up in St.Louis, Dallas, Carolina, Atlanta.........
 

Jesus Christ Horburn

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RECCE

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RR, quicker on the draw. ;)

images
 

Coach

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Wow it's impossible to know what to believe. It's hard to believe they would start selling the bonds prior to the Tuesday afternoon vote. Although if the CoG vote is a formality and they know it will already pass then I guess Tuesday is a possibility. Interesting reading about how long the bonds will take to sell. I've read that they are already sold. That it will only take a couple of hours and this article suggests a few days. Then there are those who say they won't sell at all.
Glad to see (hopefully) we seem to be working towards a resolution one way or another.

EDIT: I wonder if the CoG wanted to delay again and the NHL put pressure to keep the original timeline. Just a theory nothing to back it up.
 

Coach

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This is an interesting story. Police at CoG meetings.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/02/11/20110211glendale-man-comment.html


Arthur Thruston was recently jolted from an afternoon nap by two Glendale plainclothes police officers knocking on his door.

The 76-year-old said he was questioned by the police after he stopped by City Hall, seeking information about issues such as the Phoenix Coyotes and a proposed tribal casino. It was an off-the-cuff comment he made to Councilman Phil Lieberman that caused the man grief.

Thruston said he remarked to Lieberman last month that if voters didn't vote for the Cactus District councilman, he could shoot them.

A city staffer who overheard Thruston misconstrued the comment as a threat, Lieberman said.

"Art is harmless," Lieberman said. "I've known him for 26 years."
 

htpwn

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Nov 4, 2009
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This is an interesting story. Police at CoG meetings.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/02/11/20110211glendale-man-comment.html


Arthur Thruston was recently jolted from an afternoon nap by two Glendale plainclothes police officers knocking on his door.

The 76-year-old said he was questioned by the police after he stopped by City Hall, seeking information about issues such as the Phoenix Coyotes and a proposed tribal casino. It was an off-the-cuff comment he made to Councilman Phil Lieberman that caused the man grief.

Thruston said he remarked to Lieberman last month that if voters didn't vote for the Cactus District councilman, he could shoot them.

A city staffer who overheard Thruston misconstrued the comment as a threat, Lieberman said.

"Art is harmless," Lieberman said. "I've known him for 26 years."

What a cluster**** this whole saga has been.
 

Killion

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What a cluster**** this whole saga has been.

Herding Cats' would be an easier task than trying to make sense of much of it thats for sure. (BTW; & totally OT, Mr. Bigglesworth the Sphinx Hairless Cat from the Austin Powers movies is from Roncesvalle)..........
 

Coach

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Nice crowd in Glendale 17,283 to watch the defending Stanley Cup Champions. 3rd game of the season that they have reached 15,000 in attendance.
 

davemac1313

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every story in the Biz Journal seems like disinformation, always different than anything else, with "sources" that only seem to communicate with them, wild and unfounded "National Inquirer" accusations and conspiracies. I just don't know about the Biz as a source anymore. :shakehead
 

htpwn

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Nov 4, 2009
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Herding Cats' would be an easier task than trying to make sense of much of it thats for sure. (BTW; & totally OT, Mr. Bigglesworth the Sphinx Hairless Cat from the Austin Powers movies is from Roncesvalle)..........

Roncesvalle, Spain or Roncesvalles, neighbourhood in Toronto?
 

MountainHawk

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Sep 29, 2005
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Okay, given that argument, please explain soccer. It's huge with kid leagues, has been growing across the US for a good 30 years. Yet the MLS still lags way behind every other pro and college sport in the US.

I agree with your generational premise, but I think we're looking at a lot longer than 30 or so years. It'd be more like 50-60 years, and that would require real popularity across the US. Especially in an area like Phoenix with so many transplants. How do you grow the game like you say, with families, when there is so much turnover with population coming in from elsewhere? It's not like you're dealing with a totally stable population all gradually getting into hockey.
Soccer wasted the youth growth of the sport in the 80s and 90s by having no credible pro league and an awful national team.

They have to maintain MLS and the USMNT at a high level for the next 20 years, and then you will begin to see the benefits. I love soccer, but I have a hard time taking MLS seriously just because I didn't grow up with it.
 

Steve Passless*

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Soccer wasted the youth growth of the sport in the 80s and 90s by having no credible pro league and an awful national team.

They have to maintain MLS and the USMNT at a high level for the next 20 years, and then you will begin to see the benefits. I love soccer, but I have a hard time taking MLS seriously just because I didn't grow up with it.

MLS can't be taken seriously because it's the only major North American sports league that can't say it's the highest level of play in the world. The NBA and NHL are much more competitive than their respective European leagues. Japanese baseball is roughly equivalent to AAA. The CFL is the NFL's garbage dump. MLS may have gotten better, but it's not in the same universe as the Premier League, the Bundesliga, La Liga, or Serie A. Americans want the best, and in the case of soccer, the best is played five to eight hours ahead of them.
 

Killion

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Kil here are some Flames fans throwing cold water on the idea of the NHL in Winnipeg.

Fun site. Just a few Bettman haters' & cynics' huh?.. They should be so lucky as to have Chipman & Tompson in their corner. Most, like we here seemed "cautiously optimistic" that; A) A deal gets done in Phoenix or; B) The Team is relo'd to Winnipeg. How some would suggest it wouldnt work in the latter I dont agree with at all, but opinions are like (expletive) and everybodys' got one..... :)
 

Killion

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Had I known I wasn't needed here tonight I'd have stayed for another round or three. :cheers:

Reason to celebrate. 3-2 win over the Hawks & a decent crowd. Latest above. Seems the Bond issue may/might/possibly/perhaps/rumored/proceed next wk afterall. Never mind. :)
 

roccerfeller

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Sep 27, 2009
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I reiterate, why haven't the Coyotes been able to generate the needed revenue since moving to Jobing.com arena. Simply saying that it is because of lack of fan support and it hasn't been heavily influenced by the current recession in the US and the lack of on ice success is narrow minded IMO.

The problems currently faced in Glendale right now are similar to what was faced in Winnipeg.

Actually no, the problems Glendale faces are worlds apart from those Winnipeg faced in the early to mid-90's. Glendale proper has a population of app. 350,000. Not much of a tax base to be building $200M arenas', supporting & propping up the team to the tune of another $200M. IMO, Steve Ellman (the developer behind Westgate & the Arena, former owner of the Coyotes pre-Moyes) sold Glendale a "Field of Dreams" when 2 other far superior locations were turned down as Salesman Steve was looking for some Big Time handouts. Glendale stepped up to the plate. From his initial pitch to the COG to stamped approvals?. 72hrs. Moyes was a partner & wound up owning the team, thereafter throwing the keys on Gretzkys' desk & allowing the Great One to run free run wild, hiring Mike Barnett, his former agent from IMG as GM, his brother as a Scout for $1.2M per year & on & on. Moyes trucking company, Swift got nailed when the economy tanked as you alluded to earlier, had no idea what he was doing with arena let alone a hockey team, but enough to know how to run up the costs for everything from $600 wastepaper baskets to extracting every sou possible from the league in revenue sharing. Location, pathetic performances year in year out, competition from 3 other Phoenix area venues for Concerts & events, just on & on. This was all about building Sandcastles in the desert using public money, a real estate play, a sports & entertainment juggernaut thats backfired very badly indeed. Though it wont be happening anytime soon, one hope would be amalgamation with the rest of the municipalities & cities throughout the Valley of the Sun. But for a city the size of Glendale?. Yikes....

pegcity, Killion pretty much nailed it right on the head there. The similarities between Winnipeg's prior and Glendale's current situations, pretty much end at "team in financial trouble"

How much financial trouble, the nature of the buildings, the markets....etc.... are all different.

Just to add one major difference between the two situations between Glendale and Winnipeg's situations; consider the American dollar is not 60 cents to the Canadian dollar, and the Coyotes are not paying their players in Canadian salaries.

I agree saying the Yotes current ailments are "simply" due to a lack of fan support is narrow minded, but it is just as narrow minded to say a lack of fan support has not contributed to the Yotes current dire situation - and I am not suggesting you believe that, just saying that a 40-60% full building at below average ticket prices has at the very least contributed to why the Yotes are in the position they are now. This is, imo, irrelevant to whether or not the recession has contributed to this, because a lack of fan support is still a lack of fan support.

...btw I am happy to see the Yotes pack the building against the Hawks. Very happy. I just wish this was consistent, rather than as rare as the Pokemon Mew. (yeah, I used to play Pokemon Red. So what)
 

xtra

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Had I known I wasn't needed here tonight I'd have stayed for another round or three. :cheers:

man i must say you are smarter than me being able to drink and read this thread. I came home piss drunk the other night at like 3 and wanted to eat something so i flipped on the computer and tried to read/comprehend these threads while piss drunk and my food was warming up....but trust me that lasted about 5 mins(i think) and then i was like **** it this is too confusing.
 

David_99

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Jan 16, 2005
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man i must say you are smarter than me being able to drink and read this thread. I came home piss drunk the other night at like 3 and wanted to eat something so i flipped on the computer and tried to read/comprehend these threads while piss drunk and my food was warming up....but trust me that lasted about 5 mins(i think) and then i was like **** it this is too confusing.

It's no more comprehensible when sober. :laugh:
 
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