Phoenix XLIV: Ignorance & Apathy (or I Doan't Know & I Doan't Care)

[Melrose Munch]

There were feasibility studies done.

At the time the arena was built, Phoenix Metro was the 2nd or 3rd fastest growing city in North America. There were projections of another 1-2 million in population, mostly settling in the west valley, by 2020. Buckeye, 15 miles SW of Glendale was expected to grow from 15k to nearly 500k by 2025 alone.

Seems too many people always forget to take in those factors when making comments about the subject.

Still the could have made something happen in Dwtn Phx. And then you guys would keep your team without problem. Make sure this happens when UPhx stadium falls apart in 2030 and Bidwill jr wants new digs.

 

[RandR]

And to play that role, agreements and/or payments are also made. Nobody does anything out of the kindness of thier hearts. They want something in return.

If the case of TNSE, they kept quite, they played nice, but they were used by the NHL to squeeze money out of the CoG. For thier troubles and being good corporate citizens in the eyes of Bettman they were at one time reported to have been promised $5M in cash ( this was reported in the WFP at one time. The thing nobody knows is if TNSE was actually paid the money or not. I'm guessing not because they did get a team ) and first crack at a relocated franchise.

In the case of Quebec, they are also being quite, but I guess we will have to wait to see if they are going to be used to squeeze more money out of the CoG. I imagine there will be a phone call between Bettman and Scruggs in the near future with another 5:00pm deadline and Bettman saying to Scruggs.. " You know the drill ".

I think you are spot on in this assessment.

TNSE behaved themselves and have their team now, although that is only because the Atlanta ownership group was so determined to wash their hands of the Thrashers and get them out of their building.

If the principal parties in Quebec continue to behave themselves (such as yesterday when they refused to even entertain questions about a possible NHL franchise), then one would hope that they would be rewarded with a franchise at some point too. Understandably though, the NHL's preference for the Coyotes is to keep them in Phoenix for as many years as possible (even it means they have to rely on getting $20-25 million/year from the unfortunate taxpayers of CoG), and failing that, move them to another U.S. market. If any of those preferred options come to fruition, then the NHL will no doubt simply use the Quebec bid as leverage during negotiations with the other buyer(s). And if that happens, Quebec then has to wait for the next troubled franchise, where they might then again be treated as a last resort to be rewarded only if more preferable options can't be found.

 

[Dado]

I almost feel sorry for CoG. They got played, big time...never had a chance with Scary Gary and his sidekick Bill the Pill.

 

[Shawa666]

I almost feel sorry for CoG. They got played, big time...never had a chance with Scary Gary and his sidekick Bill the Pill.

I almost feel sorry for the people of Glendale. Then I remind myself that the people of Glendale voted for this bunch of morons. They got what they deserved.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Still the could have made something happen in Dwtn Phx. And then you guys would keep your team without problem. Make sure this happens when UPhx stadium falls apart in 2030 and Bidwill jr wants new digs.

I would have liked to see the stadium be built out towards Scottsdale. I'd be interested to see how many people would be at the games if the arena was built over on the East valley. Who knows, it might NOT be better. Nobody really knows until it actually happens. But more of the population is towards that side of town than the West side, although the west side does keep growing. I used to live in Avondale, and the area out there to Goodyear/Buckeye has been growing. It's only going to get better.

 

[Free Edler]

I almost feel sorry for the people of Glendale. Then I remind myself that the people of Glendale voted for this bunch of morons. They got what they deserved.

How long have they had the same bunch of idiots though? It's pretty hard to knock off incumbents in municipal elections. Scruggs has been mayor for nearly two decades.

 

[XX]

so the NHL said they wanted to keep the team in phoenix and Lieberman now thinks the NHL wants to move the team to US Airways Arenas?

Where are you reading the part about US Airways Center? There's a lot of historical drama that goes along with that and it doesn't make much sense for Glendale to agree to that or for the NHL to push for it.

 

[Material Defender]

IMO, it all comes down to the city taking the risk of building a new arena with only a major tenant, being a hockey team in a non traditional market. They went "all in" and, well, looks now like they lost their bid.

 

[manisback121]

They got greedy, started seeing dollar signs and ignored what would happen in an economic downturn.

Now the gig is up and the team is in flux.


Risk leaving a downtown area where population and traffic are aplenty, to move to a risky suburb.

This arena should never have been build outside of phoenix. Now, Yotes fans will have to face a day of reckoning whether it is in Glendale, v
back to crappy sightlines at USAA or watching them pack and go.

 

[Roughneck]

Assistant City Manager Horatio Skeete: Mayor and Council member Martinez... I think the fee is about $42,000 or $43,000 per night for the arena.

Councilmember Manny Martinez: How much?

Assistant City Manager Horatio Skeete: About $42,000 or $43,000 per night for the arena.

Councilmember Manny Martinez: Thats 40 nights...So OK.. I just wanted to kind of remind everybody that it is.

Assistant City Manager Horatio Skeete: Per month. Sorry.. Per month.

Councilmember Manny Martinez: Oh per month.. OK... So thats ... close to the $500,000. So that is $6 million a year that would not be there?

Wow.

 

[CBJ goalie]

[City Manager Ed Beasley:So that.. all that information is still taking place in regards to the ascertaining that, ah, and it would be a natural process of the budget process, I think it is absolutely correct, in the sense that if a team is going to leave or if the negotiations are not completed, then certainly you would have to look at the alternative of what it would take to run the arena without a team. Now what and how would take place with that, between suite sales, marketing, the other aspects of the revenue we talked about... but the baseline figure can be ascertained and we are working on ascertaining that but also recognize that we have a management agreement that we are working with as well.

Beasely sure says a lot without saying anything substantial.
I love how he talks himself in circles.

My brain is full of Puck.

 

[Nordskull]

It's not that different from elsewhere. Cant find sleep? Listen to your latest city council recordings. It works!

 

[ducks2010]

That Feb 21st COG Council Workshop was a goldmine!

Did anybody else watch the March 20 Workshops? Updates are needed. I must admit, this is good TV.

Transcript from a portion of the Glendale Budget Workshop Mar 20, 2012 Morning Session
Parks and Recreation Budget Review
Discussion starts at about 2:06:00
http://podcache-101.granicus.com/ps...e-az_c015a585-00ca-4881-9da8-220ba13e2ff2.mp3

Councilmember Norma Alvarez: Um, I don’t want, you know, to, to hear you trying to defend what happened. We need services for the kids anywhere. I'm south of Glendale, so, I really think we need something there other than Rose Lane pool… because Rose Lane pool… How are the kids from O’Neill gonna to go to Rose Lane pool? Um, the other thing is we have to think of what we are doing. Um, councilman Martinez is saying “Well we didn’t have the moneyâ€. We are going through a budget right now where we are putting money into sports that I, you know, we don’t have the money. It shouldn’t…. $20 million should not be there. And I know that, you know, somebody is gonna to come back with the defense that, you know we need to, ah, have the Coyotes, we need to, ah, pay for the arena, but then we forget the community… the people that pay taxes, the kids that don’t have the pools, the kids that don’t have recreation. I am very passionate on having a, um, kids of all colors, ethnicity, they need to have the same… We need to be providing for them… and when I hear that we don’t have the money, that then we see all this other money, because we are trying to make money in the future, and what we are doing is hurting our kids. So, I don’t agree, and I’m not blaming the staff, and I’m not blaming the council either, but we need to start thinking of services for the community, for the taxpayers in Glendale. Thank-you.

Vice Mayor Steven Frate: Councilmember Alvarez brought up the point that children at, that went to O’Neill pool now have no ability to go to Rose Lane pool? Is that correct?

Director Parks&Rec Erik Strunk: Vice-Mayor Frate, the first year of its closure we did offer transportation services from O’Neill to Rose Lane pool. The level of interest was almost non-existent so we discontinued that service. Assuming there is transportation and a child can get to Rose Lane pool, that would be the option, just as any other spot in the city right now.

Vice Mayor Steven Frate: And I want the citizens at home to know that this council is, ah, dedicated to the citizens of Glendale and we will, ah, in the future, you know, get back on track with revenues, er, coming, coming in, to be able to, ah, do these, ah, improvements, and, and different programs, but, ah, as we all know because going through the budget process, this is the worst of times actually for all cities in the state for revenues, so, ah, we are not saying, ah, no to our residents, and, we’re, you know, we’re doing things that what we have to do… be fiscally responsible and, ah, that’s why we are going through the budget process and hearing each department… so… Are there any other questions on aquatics?

Councilmember Norma Alvarez: I have a comment.

Vice Mayor Steven Frate: Certainly.

Councilmember Norma Alvarez: Um, I know that, ah, we have Rose Lane pool and I also know that kids from Rose Lane and kids from O’Neill that do go to the Rose Lane pool were being referred to Phoenix because there was no room at Rose Lane pool. That was even reported to the commission…. To the Parks and Recreation commission. I have the minutes where there was a report issued that you couldn’t handle so many kids with just one pool.

Vice Mayor Steven Frate: Do you have a comment?

Director Parks&Rec Erik Strunk: Vice-Mayor and Councilmember Alvarez that was in reference to the use of the pool has a certain capacity and once the capacity is there or is exceeded, we do provide information to patrons to potentially go to another area if they want, so only because it is a hot day, it is summer, and we want to provide them with options. That is all that was is in reference to.

Councilmember Norma Alvarez: And ah, I agree, you know, I’m not, you know, blaming you. I’m not, I’m just telling you that the need is there and you don’t have it…. And I’m telling you that we need… Here we are showing a budget to the public. We are being transparent. But, they even, they get it. They are saying.. Why are we still wanting to save one sport but not… not what the taxpayers pay for.

Councilmember Joyce Clark: I would, I would simply say this… I didn’t know that we were sending kids to Phoenix to swim because we had reached capacity at Rose Lane pool. I find that very troubling and it kind of highlights a statistic that I have repeated before and I will repeat again. Ah, The O’Neil neighborhood from 59th to 67th – Camelback to Bethany has a little over 1400 homes and is ringed by 10 apartment complexes. It is one of the densest square miles in the city of Glendale. Ah, bah, We did a survey, ah, when the O’Neil ranch group was still active, we did a survey and discovered that in that square mile, over those 14,000 homes, there were only 130 homes that had pools… which is less than 10% of the housing stock in that area. The need, um, and I realize that we are in tough budget times, and all I’m doing is highlighting what councilmember Alvarez said, that the need is tremendous in that area of our community for recreational opportunities, including swim, and, um, I would hope that staff would keep that in mind for when we do get fat again and have CIP monies to devote to recreational projects that the O’Neill pool would be a priority.

Councilmember Phil Lieberman: Somewhere, I don’t remember where, maybe in the past year, I saw a cost of doing O’Neill pool and when I looked at that cost, I couldn’t believe the figures. I did not trust, ah, the one figure that stands out in my mind, was $661,000 to remove the old pool and prepare the ground to put a new pool in… and I thought that is just way out of cost. I would like to see a new set of figures from a different contractor for replacing that O’Neill pool. I realize that this is a bad budget year, but I need a good set of figures to go by, because the $3 or $4 million that we have to replace that O’Neill pool. I believe are outrageous. I even had a friend who is capable of saying if it is necessary he would like to gather some of his friends and help to raise money to replace that O’Neill pool because it is so badly needed. I would like to see that set of figures again Mr. Strunk and go over them with you in the next week and then see what we can do about getting another bid if you and I agree that they are outrageous… But $600,000 plus to take the old pool out… I don’t understand that… That is really ridiculous. Have you seen that set of figures?

 

[Tommy Hawk]

I love this stuff!! Dumb and Dumber meet the Three Stooges. Parks and Recreation.

TV Writers should be grateful there is so much natural material being generated.

The city is going broke. They can't float bonds. They are paying an arena management fee, get no revenues other than minimal rent and some sales taxes, can't find money to keep libraries open but can find it to give to the NHL for doing a bad job managing the arena.

What was that kid's name? Logan? Trot him out about the pool situation!!

 

[Dado]

It's not that different from elsewhere. Cant find sleep? Listen to your latest city council recordings. It works!

I attend mine in person. Yeah, they can be dull. Turns out voter participation is so low that it only takes about 400 votes to get erected. Admittedly, Glendale has 10x-20x the people, but you're still talking an amazingly small number of engaged voters.

 

[Nordskull]

I attend mine in person. Yeah, they can be dull. Turns out voter participation is so low that it only takes about 400 votes to get erected. Admittedly, Glendale has 10x-20x the people, but you're still talking an amazingly small number of engaged voters.

Yeah, you know, we talking figures, bylaws, etc.. Of course, it can be pretty dull at times. If we want to watch a football games, we go to the football field.

It can be interesting at times but on items related on economic developpement, environnement etc. But any budget talk is Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Bizz]

3. When did the San Diego Sharks join the league?

Brian Engblom should know.

 

[CasualFan]

There have been many interesting exchanges at the Glendale City Council. The transcripts are great - I had previously missed Frate's masterpiece:

"we’re doing things that what we have to do… be fiscally responsible"

The Frate Fiscal Responsibility platform is truly a marvel to behold.

 

[ducks2010]

Councilmember Phil Lieberman: Wait, tell me that again. We have $20 million set aside in reserve right now. I thought that we had also agreed to furnish $5 million to the NHL at the end of the season.

Mayor Elaine Scruggs: We did, but when we built the budget they didn't know where it was coming from so the budget was built without it.

Nice budgeting process!! Shouldn't an approved budget balance? How can a city approve a budget for spending $5 million and not have a clue about where they will get it from? Oh ya.... they will never even need to pay the $20 million because Hulsizer is buying the team.... Oh ya... they will never need to pay the first $25 million because Daly says it is just an insurance policy that will 'probably' not be drawn upon.

It is unbelievable that the COG is considering signing up for year 3 of this NHL abuse.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

I still say this team is here for (at least) one more year on the COG's nickel.

That's okay. I would miss you guys.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

I attend mine in person. Yeah, they can be dull. Turns out voter participation is so low that it only takes about 400 votes to get erected. Admittedly, Glendale has 10x-20x the people, but you're still talking an amazingly small number of engaged voters.

to get what?

 

[Dado]

to get what?

Had to re-read it several times to get what you were referring to but...OMG.



Damn you autocorrect!

Yo, mods, feel free to adjust my earlier post to say "elected" instead of "erected".

 

[Killion]

I still say this team is here for (at least) one more year on the COG's nickel.That's okay. I would miss you guys.

No worries Kevy, one thing thats forever been a constant are the diabolical meanderings in which this league operates. Always plenty of material to fill these threads & boards... and really, stay or go, you can count on this matter being far from over for months (years possibly) to come.

OMG. Damn you autocorrect!...

Unhuh. Full-on Freudian Slipknot Daddyo'....

 

[Confucius]

I think you are spot on in this assessment.

TNSE behaved themselves and have their team now, although that is only because the Atlanta ownership group was so determined to wash their hands of the Thrashers and get them out of their building.

If the principal parties in Quebec continue to behave themselves (such as yesterday when they refused to even entertain questions about a possible NHL franchise), then one would hope that they would be rewarded with a franchise at some point too. Understandably though, the NHL's preference for the Coyotes is to keep them in Phoenix for as many years as possible (even it means they have to rely on getting $20-25 million/year from the unfortunate taxpayers of CoG), and failing that, move them to another U.S. market. If any of those preferred options come to fruition, then the NHL will no doubt simply use the Quebec bid as leverage during negotiations with the other buyer(s). And if that happens, Quebec then has to wait for the next troubled franchise, where they might then again be treated as a last resort to be rewarded only if more preferable options can't be found.

The bolded part should be telling that they have been told at least that, or it may be a done deal. Afterall think about it, you're building an arena everyone's excited, why not talk about your desires for a team? Pretty strange they take the we don't want to go there attitude, on their own. I feel they must have been told/asked to take that stance.

 

[Shawa666]

We're all as canadian as possible, under the circumstances.


All right i'm going to show myself out now.