Phoenix XL - Rich Man's World

[Killion]

...you think they are building a $400 million arena for the Remparts and the Shrine Circus?

... well ya. Concerts, events & the 2024 Winter Olympics.
Downhills' gonna be held down at Lake Placid.
First Ive heard of an NHL franchise MAROONS...

Those in the know in Quebec City are probably following the Winnipeg relocation example (silence is golden) as opposed to the gong show that was the Balsillie, Hamilton, Copps Coliseum fiasco.

Unhuh. And the WFP?. Ya. Nary a peep came out of the Peg for about a year and a half leading up to May 2011. Way ta keep a secret Winnipeg. Had everyone completely hoodwinked.

 

[Puckschmuck*]

Unhuh. And the WFP?. Ya. Nary a peep came out of the Peg for about a year and a half leading up to May 2011. Way ta keep a secret Winnipeg. Had everyone completely hoodwinked.

Sigh, I think you know the point he's trying to make that you refuse to acknowledge

 

[Melrose Munch]

disagree Kil.

WPG AND QUE are handling this better than Hamilton even though Hamilton is probably the best of these markets and the most profitable.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Phoenix to Quebec City or Hamilton or the GTA or Hartford.... Pacific drops to 7 and the Canada/Florida division increases to 8. Easy.

Phoenix to Seattle or Las Vegas or Portland.... Pacific stays the same, no need to realign.

Phoenix to Kansas City or Houston.... either Dallas joins the Pacific or Columbus, Detroit, or Nashville move to one of the eastern conferences.

Boom, just covered pretty much every single proposed relocation candidate, even the joke ones. Realignment would be easy in pretty much all those scenarios.

They just don't want to flat out and say that this plan is obviously built with the contingency that Phoenix could move as they still want butts in the seats down there for the rest of the season, especially as there's a very willing buyer in Quebec City that wants a team and is on good terms with the NHL.

If they do come out and say that don't expect the NHL to ever have an arena built for them again.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Quebec City is ready. Keep in mind the Colisee used to host an NHL team. Quebecor knows this is their chance. The work done to MTS Centre was mainly to the press boxes. Colisee needs upgrades to the players dressing rooms, etc., from what I understand. The new arena will be ready in 2015. Colisee is better than a lot of temporary arenas the NHL has used in the past in such situations.



No, I don't agree with that. It's kind of a hypothetical and moot point though. There was no owner. I wonder why?

Sure AEG is influential, but I don't think for a moment the NHL would have placed a team in a market like KC after all that has happened recently with franchise instability in similar markets - especially not after preventing Balsillie from "making it 7." Canada was due an NHL team basically and Winnipeg was the first in line. On top of that, someone like Thomson is not exactly without any power and influence. He financed the purchase of the Montreal Canadiens by the Molson family. He was a long time part owner of the TMLs and TSN, a present owner of the Globe and Mail, etc.

[Edit: Kind of OT, but did you know that KC recently had one of their major hockey rinks repositioned as a indoor basketball and volley ball facility, effectively reducing their very limited hockey facilities by some 40%? Not much of a hockey market.]

Do you know that Bettman still was rumored to have called Portland first before Winnipeg despite Thompson and Chipman? If the NHL cared about Canadian PR the Old Jets would have never left. And a boycott. The people of the country are far too lazy Ghost. It would end in a week.

But there is no owner in KC, I will give you that because they are making money without sports. To their credit ofcourse.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

If they do come out and say that don't expect the NHL to ever have an arena built for them again.

Wait... came out and said what? That Phoenix to Quebec is a sure thing?

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Do you know that Bettman still was rumored to have called Portland first before Winnipeg despite Thompson and Chipman?

Nope - didn't 'know' that. And I'm calling BS on any substance to it.

But there is no owner in KC, I will give you that because they are making money without sports. To their credit ofcourse.

Of course.

 

[Puckschmuck*]

Do you know that Bettman still was rumored to have called Portland first before Winnipeg despite Thompson and Chipman?

I'd like to know more about this "rumor" as well, since it has never been mentionned before............by anyone around here or anywhere....................

 

[Melrose Munch]

Wait... came out and said what? That Phoenix to Quebec is a sure thing?

Yes. The Glendale arena was built for them. If the NHL leaves, who is going to build them an arena again?

I'd like to know more about this "rumor" as well, since it has never been mentionned before............by anyone around here or anywhere....................

It was rumored the Bettman called paul allen as a last act before giving the team to chipman.

Remeber this story: http://atlanta.sbnation.com/atlanta...hers-sale-winnipeg-gary-bettman-interview-nhl

That's because Bettman was still buzzing other markets.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Yes. The Glendale arena was built for them. If the NHL leaves, who is going to build them an arena again?


It was rumored the Bettman called paul allen as a last act before giving the team to chipman.

Remeber this story: http://atlanta.sbnation.com/atlanta...hers-sale-winnipeg-gary-bettman-interview-nhl

That's because Bettman was still buzzing other markets.

LOL. Nice sources. And no link to the 'rumour' that no one but you has ever heard about?

I don't think you understand how these things work -- it's a little more complicated than working the phones at the last minute. The implication you are trying to make, however, is obvious: that Bettman was working feverishly in a last ditch effort to avoid having to put the Thrashers in Winnipeg. Of course, that is utter nonsense. The Coyotes were almost sent to Winnipeg 2 years in a row. Bettman had mentioned the team should be offered "first to Winnipeg" if it had to be relocated in an email to Daly a few years back that was only disclosed to the public due to the bankruptcy case. Winnipeg had been on the NHL radar's as a place to relocate a team since prior to the Coyotes bankruptcy. You should really read the public information Chipman has provided on how Winnipeg got a team (and how he had developed a relationship with Bettman).

 

[knorthern knight]

As for Contraction, well, in as much as that makes complete sense, I dont see the BOG's voting that one up, not unless they immediately turn around & sell an Expansion Franchise to PKP & QC for $200M+ in order to recoup their losses in Arizona. Why do that when you could just sell him the team for the same price?. Or are you thinking they might be able to squeeze even more out of him based on an Expansion Fee?. Nice. There may be a job waiting for you at league offices...

Lemmee see. Potential buyer in Quebec (PKP) has 2 choices...

• For $170 million buy a team (Phoenix, complete with GM+coaching+scouting staff) that's made the playoffs at least 2 and possibly 3, out of the last 3 seasons.
• For $200 million go running around like crazy trying to hire everybody else's reject GM+coaches+scouts who then prepare for an expansion draft, where you get to choose from amongst everybody else's rejects, 3rd-string goalies, and 4th-liners

Heck, even the Thrashers/Jets have a shot at the playoffs this year, being 3 points out of 8th spot, 1/3rd of the way through the season. A collection of castoffs would be a few years in the wilderness before getting into the playoffs.

 

[knorthern knight]

Do you know that Bettman still was rumored to have called Portland first before Winnipeg despite Thompson and Chipman? If the NHL cared about Canadian PR the Old Jets would have never left.

Jets 1.0 situation was similar to what the Islanders now face... an old delapidated arena with low seating capacity, not enough high-rent boxes/suites, and no immediate prospect of a replacement. Throw in a 65-cent Canadian dollar, and no sane owner is going to throw hundreds of millions of dollars at a situation where he is absolutely guaranteed to lose money. THAT is why the Jets 1.0 left. Don't blame it on Bettman. That's almost as bad as blaming the Jets' departure on global warming.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Jets 1.0 situation was similar to what the Islanders now face... an old delapidated arena with low seating capacity, not enough high-rent boxes/suites, and no immediate prospect of a replacement. Throw in a 65-cent Canadian dollar, and no sane owner is going to throw hundreds of millions of dollars at a situation where he is absolutely guaranteed to lose money. THAT is why the Jets 1.0 left. Don't blame it on Bettman. That's almost as bad as blaming the Jets' departure on global warming.

100% percent true but the notion there would be an uprising against the NHL equally as ridiculous if Winnipeg had not gotten the team IMO.

 

[Material Defender]

Exactly. The simple fact that there are two teams that want to get out of the West but neither did seems to strengthen the idea that the NHL has accepted the fact that another team from the west will be moving east relatively soon.

Considering Detroit is still in the West (16 teams), even after begging the league for a move to the East (14 teams), shows one obvious thing: Either the Red Wings or the Coyotes will move East before next season.

 

[CGG]

Considering Detroit is still in the West (16 teams), even after begging the league for a move to the East (14 teams), shows one obvious thing: Either the Red Wings or the Coyotes will move East before next season.

People are completely missing the idea that the proposed playoff format is simply seeding the four conference winners 1-4 for the semi final. There is no more "East" and "West", so you don't need to move one of the teams to create two 15-team super conferences. It doesn't matter which conferences have 7 teams and which have 8. Next year Montreal as winners of the "Adams" can play San Jose, winners of the "Smythe" in the semi-finals while Chicago plays the Islanders in the other semi.

If Phoenix miraculously stays put next season, Detroit and Columbus are both staying where they are as well, no need for another shuffling.

But it is intriguing that the logical place for Quebec to play was set up as a 7-team conference, easily facilitating the switch from Phoenix to Quebec.

 

[Nordskull]

Now, who said a move to Qc city would not bring a change of playoff rules, bringing back east and west?

16 in the west 14 in the east is still ackward, at least esthetically.

We certainly don't now everything. Couple surprises could come later.

 

[Whileee]

Yes. The Glendale arena was built for them. If the NHL leaves, who is going to build them an arena again?

Is that a trick question? I'll bite... Quebec City? Markham, Ontario? Just about any other city in S. Ontario?

Or did you mean that the NHL would have a hard time getting an arena built for them in a "non-traditional" market?

Glendale was a special case. As much as anything, it was about a real estate play with some locally connected business "hotties". They lost their good looks quickly, and things sort of went down hill from there. Suffice to say, this was about more than building an arena "for the NHL". It was more about the hubris of a small city council and well-connected local businessmen. Ed Beasley might be the first in a set of dominoes to fall over this debacle.

 

[JF55JF]

Setting aside who would build another arena for the NHL or why Glendale did in the first place.

It does allow flexibility with the new alignment.

PHX stays.- Alright move Columbus or Detroit to an easterly conference.
PHX moves to QC - Everything is set for that
PHX moves to KC - Columbus or Detroit hop east, and KC takes their spot
PHX moves to Seattle - No changes except giving Det or Columbus the opportunity to move east.

Clock is ticking in Glendale. It looks as if the NHL has taken a definite step in showing the Coyotes, and the COG, that they are making preperations of having the ability of relocating.

 

[Bruinbear]

People are completely missing the idea that the proposed playoff format is simply seeding the four conference winners 1-4 for the semi final. There is no more "East" and "West", so you don't need to move one of the teams to create two 15-team super conferences. It doesn't matter which conferences have 7 teams and which have 8.

If Phoenix miraculously stays put next season, Detroit and Columbus are both staying where they are as well, no need for another shuffling.

But it is intriguing that the logical place for Quebec to play was set up as a 7-team conference, easily facilitating the switch from Phoenix to Quebec.

Isnt it convenient that the conference for Quebec is a 7 team conference. literally requires zero switching just add one team to another conference without having to move another team back. Its so convenient that its completely fishy and shows this is the end of the line for Phoenix. Word is jamison is out. Jr will not buy a team with his own money.


Glendale is a monorail town, Railroad Town, whatever you want to call it. A bunch of self entitled city council members thought they could up their value by creating a "sports town". What they failed to realize is that Hockey, unlike football, Plays on Monday, tuesday, wed, thurs which is during the work week and means people from phoenix dont want to drive to Glendale. Add that together with an already small fan base in which the only hockey fans are those that are fans of the teams from their real home towns (chicago, Boston, Detroit). it creates failure. There is no chance for hockey in phoenix. I cant see the BOG passing up on Quebec now that its been so long since Moyes went under. its over. Get out your nordiques jerseys quebec

 

[Ugmo]

The monorail reference would definitely be worth some rep if this site had that function.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Yes. The Glendale arena was built for them. If the NHL leaves, who is going to build them an arena again?

Well, Quebec and Markham come to mind. Kansas City had an arena built specifically with the idea that an NHL or NBA team could come to town one day, too. And Seattle might be on the verge of getting an arena, as well.

Failure in one market =/= overlap in other markets, especially prospective markets. The situation could likely end up very bad in Glendale, but that won't have an effect on any number of other cities that want an NHL team.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

People are completely missing the idea that the proposed playoff format is simply seeding the four conference winners 1-4 for the semi final. There is no more "East" and "West", so you don't need to move one of the teams to create two 15-team super conferences. It doesn't matter which conferences have 7 teams and which have 8.

No, I understand that.... but the situation of Detroit and Columbus would still both improve, at least slightly, if they were in a one time zone conference over a two-time zone conference. The new alignment is certainly going to be better for both teams, and will likely be enough to satiate Detroit at the very least, but being in the same time zone for all your conference games is an extremely attractive proposition. The fact that neither EST "old west" teams got moved into one of the eastern conferences when there's a 16-14 split between the old west and the old east really does indicate to me that the NHL thinks that a team from one of the western conferences will soon be physically moving to one of the eastern conferences.

And from my perspective, all signs point to the Yotes relocating to Quebec City. The fact that the two conference format is dead changes nothing about that opinion to me.

Considering Detroit is still in the West (16 teams), even after begging the league for a move to the East (14 teams), shows one obvious thing: Either the Red Wings or the Coyotes will move East before next season.

I'd put Columbus as being more likely to move east over Detroit, especially now. Most of Detroit's issues have been fixed with this new realignment, Columbus would proportionally benefit more from the lion's share of their games being in the same time zone, and moving the BJs would have zero overall effect on any major rivalry.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Is that a trick question? I'll bite... Quebec City? Markham, Ontario? Just about any other city in S. Ontario?

Or did you mean that the NHL would have a hard time getting an arena built for them in a "non-traditional" market?

Glendale was a special case. As much as anything, it was about a real estate play with some locally connected business "hotties". They lost their good looks quickly, and things sort of went down hill from there. Suffice to say, this was about more than building an arena "for the NHL". It was more about the hubris of a small city council and well-connected local businessmen. Ed Beasley might be the first in a set of dominoes to fall over this debacle.

This, but your point is well taken.

 

[Icedog2735]

It is interesting though that one perceived way Bettman got the Northeast teams (TOR, MTL, et. al) to vote for the proposal was to guarantee that they would be in a 7-team conference thus increasing their playoff chances. Seems to me this reason that has been discussed wouldn't be relevant if everyone in the BOG room assumed PHX is moving to QC making the Northeast Conference 8 teams.

 

[Material Defender]

Well, Quebec and Markham come to mind. Kansas City had an arena built specifically with the idea that an NHL or NBA team could come to town one day, too. And Seattle might be on the verge of getting an arena, as well.

Failure in one market =/= overlap in other markets, especially prospective markets. The situation could likely end up very bad in Glendale, but that won't have an effect on any number of other cities that want an NHL team.

Not saying Markham (or Southern Ontario) is out of the way but surely not on top of the list: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww3md8DvoTY (6:40)