Phoenix XL - Rich Man's World

LadyStanley · Oct 18, 2011

Previous thread: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=969729

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=378347

From McKenzie:

At some point in the not-too-distant future, it's expected the NHL will endorse one of two groups that are currently showing some interest in the purchase of the franchise for the purposes of keeping it in Phoenix.

One group is headed up by former San Jose Shark president Greg Jamison and the other involves sports magnate Jerry Reinsdorf, who's been in and out of this process almost from the beginning. Right now, he's back in apparently. Jamison's group would appear to be the underdog; Reinsdorf's group the favorite.

dronald · Oct 18, 2011

Not too distant future eh... Sounds promising!

CGG · Oct 18, 2011

Come on, we've been waiting so long for thread # 40 so we could see "Phoenix XL" on the screen. Let us have it!

Mungman · Oct 18, 2011

dronald said:
Not too distant future eh... Sounds promising!

imminent!

dronald · Oct 18, 2011

CGG said:
Come on, we've been waiting so long for thread # 40 so we could see "Phoenix XL" on the screen. Let us have it!

Next thread:

Phoenix XL (THE XTRA LARGE EDITION)

htpwn · Oct 18, 2011

It is interesting that Reinsdorf's group is the favorite over Jamison's. Hasn't he tried to close a deal on two separate occasions, failing to come to an agreement on either?

Confucius · Oct 18, 2011

I thought after January 1st, it would be too late for the schedule makers, again. I'm just guessing here but Reinsdorf is probably not a serious bidder. Rather he is just being used or allowing himself to be used to try to at least get a couple of dollars out of Jamison's group. No different than the league having a city ready to accept a team.

goyotes · Oct 18, 2011

Looks to be about 13,000 or so for tonight against the Blackhawks.

As a Coyote fan, I am personally disgusted at this point. The ownership issue looms large, but the team has begun to market itself in the last couple of weeks, and has been featured on television news sport segments several times recently (probably because the Cards stink this year and the no NBA so no Suns to talk about). There is no excuse for this game to not be close to a sellout, IMO.

The only thing I will say is there are less discounted tickets being sold (discounted tickets on the skelper market but no deals from the Coyotes), so fans are being asked to pay prices closer to NHL levels in most markets.

The fans sure aren't making it easier for an owner to sweep in and purchase this team.

Scottrocks58* · Oct 18, 2011

Hockeyhopeful said:
I thought after January 1st, it would be too late for the schedule makers, again. I'm just guessing here but Reinsdorf is probably not a serious bidder. Rather he is just being used or allowing himself to be used to try to at least get a couple of dollars out of Jamison's group. No different than the league having a city ready to accept a team.

You must not be familiar with Reinsdorf. Reinsdorf is no one's pushover. He doesn't allow himself to be used for someone else's benefit.

Killion · Oct 18, 2011

htpwn said:
It is interesting that Reinsdorf's group is the favorite over Jamison's. Hasn't he tried to close a deal on two separate occasions, failing to come to an agreement on either?

Ya, the first time during the Moyes BK; the 2nd time when the COG rejected his MOU when he included a perfectly reasonable out-clause, the city then demanding a 35yr agreement, opting to run with IEH who also demanded exclusive negotiating rights. Brilliant move by the Mayor & Council. This couldve' been wrapped up & done ages ago.

Confucius · Oct 18, 2011

Scottrocks58 said:
You must not be familiar with Reinsdorf. Reinsdorf is no one's pushover. He doesn't allow himself to be used for someone else's benefit.

I wish I could remember what his exact words were when he bowed out of the process when it looked like Ice Edge was going to get a deal done.

Something like I was glad to have been of service.......
Edit to add
Or it may have been, I was glad to have helped..

Killion · Oct 18, 2011

Hockeyhopeful said:
Something like I was glad to be of service.......

"My MOU speaks for itself"... :squint:

kdb209 · Oct 18, 2011

Confucius · Oct 18, 2011

Killion said:
"My MOU speaks for itself"...

As usual, I don't have a clue what you mean. :help:

headsigh · Oct 18, 2011

You could even say that a resolution could be found in...

Two weeks.

Killion · Oct 18, 2011

Hockeyhopeful said:
As usual, I don't have a clue what you mean.

Neither do I, so I guess were even...

Thats what JR said when asked by a reporter
what he had to say about his exit, followed by
"no further comment at this time"...

Scottrocks58* · Oct 18, 2011

Hockeyhopeful said:
I wish I could remember what his exact words were when he bowed out of the process when it looked like Ice Edge was going to get a deal done.

Something like I was glad to have been of service.......
Edit to add
Or it may have been, I was glad to have helped..

Politically correct. That's how I remember it. He was ever gracious.

objectiveposter · Oct 18, 2011

Killion said:
Ya, the first time during the Moyes BK; the 2nd time when the COG rejected his MOU when he included a perfectly reasonable out-clause, the city then demanding a 35yr agreement, opting to run with IEH who also demanded exclusive negotiating rights. Brilliant move by the Mayor & Council. This couldve' been wrapped up & done ages ago.

it wasnt just the number of years on the lease glendale had a problem with...it was also the absurd and unrealistic amount of money that needed to be generated through the cfd.

a lot has changed in the past year or so
1)glendale has found a way to subsidize 25/year directly to team without breaking the law
2)it appears glendale is willing to go with a shorter 7 year out clause
3)speculation that the league may use some of the atlanta relocation money to lower asking price

none of these were in play a year ago..it completely changes the landscape...thats why a deal will likely get done this time
2)

Killion · Oct 18, 2011

objectiveposter said:
it wasnt just the number of years on the lease glendale had a problem with...it was also the absurd and unrealistic amount of money that needed to be generated through the cfd.

1)glendale has found a way to subsidize 25/year directly to team without breaking the law
2)it appears glendale is willing to go with a shorter 7 year out clause
3)speculation that the league may use some of the atlanta relocation money to lower asking price

none of these were in play a year ago..it completely changes the landscape...thats why a deal will likely get done this time

Ya, I agree that it'll likely get done... couple of points/questions;

1) The GWI has not dropped the bone on that $25M per annum "Arena Mgmnt Fee" & I rather doubt the COG will be willing to be so generous post 11-12. Even if it isnt challenged. Therefore, I'd expect to see that re-negotiated, possibly with JR or Jamison also receiving transfer of the AMUL signed lasy May between the NHL & the COG or possibly a completely new AMULA.

2) If the new owner works under the NHL/COG AMUL there is no rush to negotiate & sign a fully blown AMULA, JR/GJ having the right to relo anytime they wish over the next 9yrs. If they do negotiate a fully blown AMULA, then yes, 5-7yrs would be sensible.

3) Also agree that if the league applies the $60M relo fee from TNSE along with Terms, much more attractive & doable. Question though; is the $60M included in HRR and therefore subject to the NHLPA receiving 57% of it or are relocation & or expansion fee's separate from the existing CBA?...

Finally, with respect to Reinsdorfs 2nd round of negotiations, and though moot now, wasnt he also asking that the COG "Guarantee" as in cover any shortfalls in the CFD, or was that IEH?. Regardless, its certainly not germane today as as you've pointed out the landscapes shifted considerably; never mind the fact that Westgate's still a question mark & the implementation of a CFD at this moment in time virtually impossible.

MaskedSonja · Oct 18, 2011

Killion said:
Ya, I agree that it'll likely get done... couple of points/questions;

1) The GWI has not dropped the bone on that $25M per annum "Arena Mgmnt Fee" & I rather doubt the COG will be willing to be so generous post 11-12. Even if it isnt challenged. Therefore, I'd expect to see that re-negotiated, possibly with JR or Jamison also receiving transfer of the AMUL signed lasy May between the NHL & the COG or possibly a completely new AMULA.

2) If the new owner works under the NHL/COG AMUL there is no rush to negotiate & sign a fully blown AMULA, JR/GJ having the right to relo anytime they wish over the next 9yrs. If they do negotiate a fully blown AMULA, then yes, 5-7yrs would be sensible.

3) Also agree that if the league applies the $60M relo fee from TNSE along with Terms, much more attractive & doable. Question though; is the $60M included in HRR and therefore subject to the NHLPA receiving 57% of it or are relocation & or expansion fee's separate from the existing CBA?...

Finally, with respect to Reinsdorfs 2nd round of negotiations, and though moot now, wasnt he also asking that the COG "Guarantee" as in cover any shortfalls in the CFD, or was that IEH?. Regardless, its certainly not germane today as as you've pointed out the landscapes shifted considerably; never mind the fact that Westgate's still a question mark & the implementation of a CFD at this moment in time virtually impossible.

Agree with all of this. I think to sum it all up, it changed things when the NHL essentially grabbed the leverage needed and took it out of CoG's hands. It seems to be pretty much set up where the buyer negotiates with the NHL, and if the CoG tries playing hardball, the NHL takes ITS ball (Yotes franchise) and proceeds to take it elsewhere. The CoG is pretty much in a position now where they either play nicely and work with NHL/new owners, or they get to figure out how to fill all those dates at the Job without hockey. As you and others have said, the landscape has changed so much now as far as the less red tape for potential owners to go through.

dronald · Oct 18, 2011

No, it is not true. You are wrong. The Goldwater Institute is an organization that likes to inject itself when it believes taxpayers are getting screwed. If it comes down to concessions to keep the team versus losing the team and getting LESS return on the investment already made by the taxpayers, they'll join the city's fight to keep the team here.

There are plenty of other straws to grasp, so drop GI. It doesn't help your argument unless your boy JB is going to pay Glendale $500M so he can go play in SO. Glendale will happily take that check and GI will find another fight.

First page from, "It's dead Jim" I had a good laugh, if only he were right.

Killion · Oct 18, 2011

"Its dead Jim, whatever it was"...
Doctor McCoy

Whileee · Oct 18, 2011

Killion said:
Ya, I agree that it'll likely get done... couple of points/questions;

1) The GWI has not dropped the bone on that $25M per annum "Arena Mgmnt Fee" & I rather doubt the COG will be willing to be so generous post 11-12. Even if it isnt challenged. Therefore, I'd expect to see that re-negotiated, possibly with JR or Jamison also receiving transfer of the AMUL signed lasy May between the NHL & the COG or possibly a completely new AMULA.

2) If the new owner works under the NHL/COG AMUL there is no rush to negotiate & sign a fully blown AMULA, JR/GJ having the right to relo anytime they wish over the next 9yrs. If they do negotiate a fully blown AMULA, then yes, 5-7yrs would be sensible.

3) Also agree that if the league applies the $60M relo fee from TNSE along with Terms, much more attractive & doable. Question though; is the $60M included in HRR and therefore subject to the NHLPA receiving 57% of it or are relocation & or expansion fee's separate from the existing CBA?...

Finally, with respect to Reinsdorfs 2nd round of negotiations, and though moot now, wasnt he also asking that the COG "Guarantee" as in cover any shortfalls in the CFD, or was that IEH?. Regardless, its certainly not germane today as as you've pointed out the landscapes shifted considerably; never mind the fact that Westgate's still a question mark & the implementation of a CFD at this moment in time virtually impossible.

This is going to be tricky, I think.

My guess is that the NHL will go ahead and select one of the groups for a sale (probably JR), and then the pressure will be on Glendale (again). As Killion notes above, I would not be so sure that the $25 million is there for the taking, especially if there is a bona fide "out clause" in several years. Never mind the GWI, does anyone think that the Glendale City council can really stomach the idea of providing a cool $25 million annually for the next 5-7 years without some assurance of the long-term security of having the Coyotes? It would be absolutely unforgivable if they paid out $100-150 million over the next several years only to have the team leave anyway.

Nope. I think we are going to go back to the dance of long-term lease lock vs. level of subsidy. Substantially lowering the price of the franchise might be the only way of breaking that log-jam, but then the NHL could have done that first time around with Reinsdorf when he was the only option after Glendale had initially punted IEH to the curb.

OttawaRoughRiderFan* · Oct 18, 2011

Whileee said:
It would be absolutely unforgivable if they paid out $100-150 million over the next several years only to have the team leave anyway.

When a dog has rabies you just have to put it down.

:deadhorse

MaskedSonja · Oct 18, 2011

Whileee said:
This is going to be tricky, I think.

My guess is that the NHL will go ahead and select one of the groups for a sale (probably JR), and then the pressure will be on Glendale (again). As Killion notes above, I would not be so sure that the $25 million is there for the taking, especially if there is a bona fide "out clause" in several years. Never mind the GWI, does anyone think that the Glendale City council can really stomach the idea of providing a cool $25 million annually for the next 5-7 years without some assurance of the long-term security of having the Coyotes? It would be absolutely unforgivable if they paid out $100-150 million over the next several years only to have the team leave anyway.

Nope. I think we are going to go back to the dance of long-term lease lock vs. level of subsidy. Substantially lowering the price of the franchise might be the only way of breaking that log-jam, but then the NHL could have done that first time around with Reinsdorf when he was the only option after Glendale had initially punted IEH to the curb.

I think the NHL has too much say here, and if CoG tries the old Long term lease and NHL doesn't bite, they may just decide to take the franchise leaving them with the arena. I really don't see CoG having any leverage here unlike times past-it's all in the NHL's hands pretty much. And if potential owner doesn't want to get locked into long term lease, he won't have too.

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