Phoenix XCVI: The Government You Deserve ...

[Killion]

Wait, is this the same audit the mayor ordered when he first came into office? It was never finished, but they saw it fit to spend $15m on a hockey team?

Ya, the one thats being completed, soon to be released, while in the interim, they pull out the plastic and wrack up another $8.5M in debt, believing Cap'n Le Blanc that a Galleon laden with gold, emeralds & rubies lies just out of sight over the horizon, headed for the landlocked Port of Glendale.

Twice in the above paragraph, you use the expression "about to be". Do we look for this in the coming week, in 2 weeks, before Aug 5, or after closing?

Their going to hit on several fronts starting next week, thereafter, and certainly if after the first couple of barrages the NHL & RSE consummate this deal made in Hell, thats when the really Big Guns start opening up on them. I dont see it happening, the COG will be far too shaken & timid to be moving forward yes vote or not, the NHL & RSE backpedalling in full-on damage control once again with promises that the deal & the financing, terms & conditions are being re-worked.

 

[gstommylee]

Hard to say. She isnt terribly sophisticated, nor are any of the others sitting on Council including the Mayor, Interim Manager Bowers the only one who seemed to have a grasp on matters, fully comprehending the ramifications, understanding the shortcomings of RSE's bid, its precarious financing & overly optimistic projections that absolutely spell trouble for Glendale. Alvarez may not have understood as much as Bowers however instinctively, innately she did perceive danger so if nothing else, some street smarts. Seems to have a hard time articulating her arguments, firing in all directions, never really hitting anything decisively. Emotional. Bit of a Bull in a China Shoppe. I do think this is a bit of a signal flare though, that some serious guns are being readied, a series of frontal attacks about to be launched on Glendale for having been playing it fast & loose in breaching basic procedural rules & regulations amongst other far more serious offences as they relate specifically to the FOIA, Public Notification of Matters to be Voted Upon & the Gift Clause, and that this deal will be derailed as a result of whats about to be unleashed. The Audit but one more damning piece of evidence that for some could well result in indictments.

Question what would happen to RSE after being approved as owners of the coyotes and this comes out derailing the deal and getting people are indicted?

Could NHL take away the franchise from RSE then? Or would this issue cause the entire sale purchase to fall apart?

 

[Killion]

Hey, I like the song and I'll stop when it get used...

(For the record, it's only the second time I've posted the link and third time I've suggested the title. Been looking for the lyrics online and perhaps write a filk from it that's topic appropriate, but no such luck...)

Ya ya ya I know. Just teasin ya..... Comsat whatevers huh? You & Robert Palmer the only ywo people in the World who thought they were any good. And your "surprised" you cant find the lyrics to the song on line? Or prolly anywhere? Burned Baby. Along with the masters and every mother****ing CD, Cassette, scrap of vinyl they ever produced. Recycled & turned into RC Cola bottles years ago.

 

[Killion]

Question what would happen to RSE after being approved as owners of the coyotes and this comes out derailing the deal and people are indicted? Could NHL take away the franchise from RSE then? Or would this issue cause the entire sale purchase to fall apart?

I dont think the deal closes at all quite frankly as the howls have yet to be heard. But when they are, thats when things go off the rails. Before August 4th. If they still proceed & close, Im certain writs are dropped, injunctions requested. As for the Audit & "people" possibly winding up being indicted, could happen, but that'll take some time. Several months. The Attorney Generals Offices, the State Police, Justice Department, further investigations.... Ed Beasley doin 2-5 at Phoenix West State Prison sitting there in his cell watching NHL Gamecentre on his 22" LED TV, gift from Bill & Gary to help pass the time.

 

[MNNumbers]

Their going to hit on several fronts starting next week, thereafter, and certainly if after the first couple of barrages the NHL & RSE consummate this deal made in Hell, thats when the really Big Guns start opening up on them. I dont see it happening, the COG will be far too shaken & timid to be moving forward yes vote or not, the NHL & RSE backpedalling in full-on damage control once again with promises that the deal & the financing, terms & conditions are being re-worked.

Like I have said before, Killion, I hope you are right, I really do. I would like nothing more than for the real story to hit the news. What we know already on this forum simply stinks terribly.

HEADLINE: NHL and COG being investigated for backroom dealing prior to lease vote.

HEADLINE: Serial Meeting with City Council members were illegal

HEADLINE: Former city manager of Glendale indicted for fraud while managing Glendale.

Yep. I would love to see that.

Please keep us informed of all that happens.

 

[Maupin Fan]

Killion,

Do you have any sources/evidence that all of these legal proceedings you are alluding to are actually going to happen or is it just wild speculation of what you would like to see happen? Serious question.

 

[Killion]

Do you have any sources/evidence that all of these legal proceedings you are alluding to are actually going to happen or is it just wild speculation of what you would like to see happen? Serious question.

Of course its speculation, but far from "wild". Some rather "informed sources" on the ground down there combined with common sense & guesswork. Could of course be entirely wrong.... that everyones elated, deal done, RSE the second coming of Ed Snider & the Broadstreet Bullies meets Sammy Pollock, the Molsons & the Habs. Pull a complete 180 in Glendale. Wall to wall concerts & events. No one griping about having to pay an extra $20-$50 per ticket & $10 for parking. Glendales gamble & breaking a lot of rules to play it paying off in spades. That the Cops, Fire Dept, Goldwater & others wont have the least problem with any of this...

 

[enarwpg]

Clark is such an idiot, Most of the new Coyote owners Canadians. Nationality of the majority of the Coyotes players and front office Canadians.

You forgot that a huge portion of the fans are probably Canadian....

 

[ajmidd12]

You grossly underestimate Don Maloney's ability to manage a budget.

Probably, and where has that gotten them? A trip to the Western finals one year, then completely missing the playoffs the next.... in a shortened season. RSE won't change anything, they are as broke as the NHL was in terms of spending on the team. They can just keep a team on the ice, that's all.

Mike Ribeiro, maybe you should start planning the Cup parade?

 

[Killion]

Probably, and where has that gotten them? A trip to the Western finals one year, then completely missing the playoffs the next.... in a shortened season. RSE won't change anything, they are as broke as the NHL was in terms of spending on the team. They can just keep a team on the ice, that's all.

Mike Ribeiro, maybe you should start planning the Cup parade?

He's a talented player, bit of a Human Highlight Reel while with Dallas, creative, but he's also 33 years old. $5.5M? Um, dont think so, but hey, good for him. Likely his last contract. No movement clause included. Scoring, putting up the points a problem for the Yotes. This'll help, offensive Centreman. Between Smith, Doan & now Ribeiro, short-term transitionally, Maloneys got himself a pretty decent core, the remainder of the team easily filled with younger cheaper talent, maybe a few more UFA's with a bit left in the tank. I could see them doing some damage and that obviously is critical to succeeding in Phoenix. That their competitive, fans get their moneys worth and theres no question they have that and then some over the past 3yrs. Its just too bad the NHL itself cant seem to approach & facilitate a local sale with the same kind of reasonable & intelligent approach as displayed by Maloney & Tippett in terms of hockey operations.

 

[ajmidd12]

He's a talented player, bit of a Human Highlight Reel while with Dallas, creative, but he's also 33 years old. $5.5M? Um, dont think so, but hey, good for him. Likely his last contract. No movement clause included. Scoring, putting up the points a problem for the Yotes. This'll help, offensive Centreman. Between Smith, Doan & now Ribeiro, short-term transitionally, Maloneys got himself a pretty decent core, the remainder of the team easily filled with younger cheaper talent, maybe a few more UFA's with a bit left in the tank. I could see them doing some damage and that obviously is critical to succeeding in Phoenix. That their competitive, fans get their moneys worth and theres no question they have that and then some over the past 3yrs. Its just too bad the NHL itself cant seem to approach & facilitate a local sale with the same kind of reasonable & intelligent approach as displayed by Maloney & Tippett in terms of hockey operations.

While I agree in terms of what Maloney and Tippett have done with the organization. Even when the team was winning they didn't have many people at the games.

When the team was in the conference finals they had to sell tickets at discount prices to get people to show up. How exactly is that a hockey market? For the record, I'm not suggesting there aren't any fans there, of course there are. Just not enough to support a team.

 

[Llama19]

Phoenix Coyotes fans to take hit in wallet

To quote:

"The reimbursements will be comprised largely of pass-along costs to customers who pay for Coyotes games and other events at the arena through ticket surcharges and parking fees.

IceArizona partner Anthony LeBlanc said Coyotes fans appear more than willing to share the financial burden in order to keep the team from moving.

The fans’ willingness to open their wallets also is important to city officials who approved the deal, trusting LeBlanc and his partners to make good on their promise to return millions of dollars to the city.

“Is this the best deal that we ever could have gotten? I don’t know,†said Glendale Mayor Jerry Weiers, who voted against the agreement, which passed 4-3."

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/community/glendale/articles/20130706phoenix-coyotes-fans-take-hit-wallet.html

 

[ajmidd12]

^ If they were willing to open their wallets why didn't Lil Gary Bettman impose a STH drive before the NHL would entertain signing the agreement?

Because Gary hates Canada that's why!

 

[Killion]

How exactly is that a hockey market? For the record, I'm not suggesting there aren't any fans there, of course there are. Just not enough to support a team.

Ya, I hear what your saying alrighty, though Im more of the mind (as Im sure you are) that hockey, the NHL brand can in fact be sold anywhere anytime. Be it Houston, Birmingham or wherever. But it requires serious care, time & attention from the grass roots on up. You dont just parachute a team into a Phoenix and expect through osmosis that the games going to take-off like greased lightning. String of intransigent owners, major damage done to the market, devastating really, one already with unique challenges, from climate to competition, demographics, a somewhat transient population etc etc etc. This is just one un-Godly mess of a situation and Im sorry to say, far better now after all thats gone down, for the sake & sanity of everyone, this franchise should be moved. The only way I could see it working is if someone of serious weight, willing to really dig deep, knew what they were doing, say some guy with No-name who came riding out of the desert on a Pale Gray Horse and turned things upside down, completely re-winding the clock. Painting the town Coyote Red.

Welcome Home Boys

IceArizona partner Anthony LeBlanc said Coyotes fans appear more than willing to share the financial burden in order to keep the team from moving.... The fans’ willingness to open their wallets also is important to city officials who approved the deal, trusting LeBlanc and his partners to make good on their promise to return millions of dollars to the city.

Ya. I dont know whether to laugh or cry at this stage.... so I'll just laugh.

 

[ajmidd12]

Ya, I hear what your saying alrighty, though Im more of the mind (as Im sure you are) that hockey, the NHL brand can in fact be sold anywhere anytime. Be it Houston, Birmingham or wherever. But it requires serious care, time & attention from the grass roots on up. You dont just parachute a team into a Phoenix and expect through osmosis that the games going to take-off like greased lightning. String of intransigent owners, major damage done to the market, devastating really, one already with unique challenges, from climate to competition, demographics, a somewhat transient population etc etc etc. This is just one un-Godly mess of a situation and Im sorry to say, far better now after all thats gone down, for the sake & sanity of everyone, this franchise should be moved. The only way I could see it working is if someone of serious weight, willing to really dig deep, knew what they were doing, say some guy with No-name who came riding out of the desert on a Pale Gray Horse and turned things upside down, completely re-winding the clock. Painting the town Coyote Red.

Welcome Home Boys ....

Y'know Killion, I've always admired your colourful analogies and wording. Keep it up!

The only way this works is if an imposed season ticket drive is done with the prices increased 30% off the bat, if that works. Great. If not, don't sign the deal. Hindsight is 20/20, and in this case EVERYONE outside of the Coyotes few select fans are giving Bettman, Leblanc, et all a glimpse of what is to come.

Now, personally I don't care where the team relocates to, but when you have to otherwise bankrupt a municipality to afford a professional sports franchise, well, that's when you cut the proverbial cord.

 

[manisback121]

I dont think the deal closes at all quite frankly as the howls have yet to be heard. But when they are, thats when things go off the rails. Before August 4th. If they still proceed & close, Im certain writs are dropped, injunctions requested. As for the Audit & "people" possibly winding up being indicted, could happen, but that'll take some time. Several months. The Attorney Generals Offices, the State Police, Justice Department, further investigations.... Ed Beasley doin 2-5 at Phoenix West State Prison sitting there in his cell watching NHL Gamecentre on his 22" LED TV, gift from Bill & Gary to help pass the time.

The complaint and order to show cause are ready to go at this point. I hope they find its a related care and assign it to the judge who warned Glendale last time.

 

[MNNumbers]

The complaint and order to show cause are ready to go at this point. I hope they find its a related care and assign it to the judge who warned Glendale last time.

Could you please explain what a complaint and order to show cause are?

 

[Killion]

Now, personally I don't care where the team relocates to, but when you have to otherwise bankrupt a municipality to afford a professional sports franchise, well, that's when you cut the proverbial cord.

Oh absolutely, this "deal" if you can even call it that well beyond the pale. That it passed at all I find stunning. If it gets past the BOG's and survives challenge, well, I dont know what ta say, what this Worlds come to. Beyond ludicrous, pure stupidity. What a precedent for the NHL. Imagine Yormark in Florida or whomever up to their butts in alligators, rolling out the largesse bestowed upon RSE in demanding same from the league & their brethren? And why not? This isnt a sale at all. Its 5yrs of very expensive Foster Care, the COG believing, actually swallowing RSE's Moon Shot promises, dropping their guard in removing their own out clause & requirements for guarantee's, taking the Beacon Bids off the table. Then they vote on it, in contravention of the law, whereby substantial changes of this nature must be preceded by full notification of at least 24hrs. Theyve flouted the rules, broke em', and not just with that vote last Tuesday. Repeatedly. Non-compliance with the Freedom of Information Act. Sitting on the Beacon Bids after short-listing. Serial Meetings. Then theres this "Lease Agreement" itself. Absolute smoking gun with prints all over it. RSE clearly using Glendale in order to receive credit. Direct-subsidy. That fee nowhere close to being market-value. Its outright gambling with the taxpayers money while Cops & EMT's are being laid off, Fires Stations closed? Are you out of your minds?! And just look at who their climbing in to bed with?!!!...

 

[Killion]

The complaint and order to show cause are ready to go at this point. I hope they find its a related care and assign it to the judge who warned Glendale last time.

Gotta be, and honestly does it even matter what Judge? Glendales rep is such that the judiciary must just about be in hysterics. Their reputations precede them. Like Charles Manson coming up before the Parole Board every 10yrs. New group sure enough, but hey, theyve all seen the movie with Steve Railsback, read Vincent Bugliosi's book, listened to the Beatles White Album...

Do you dont you want me ta love you yayayayayayayaya
Comin down fast but Im miles above you yayayayayayaya

My God. Round them up already.

Could you please explain what a complaint and order to show cause are?

Someone like Goldwater, a Citizens Coalition, File a Complaint, seek an Injunction or Stay on the Vote of Tuesday July 2nd, "showing cause" which could contain in this case several reasons as to why a Judge should grant one until heard. I'll let a Lawyer expand, expound...

 

[MaskedSonja]

Anyone know what season ticket sales are anticipated between now and season opening? I mean current as well as new sales-is there an expectation of at least 10-15 thousand total ticket sales?

I'm talking about from Leblanc and co and their expectations.

 

[Chileiceman]

I think the decision made last Tuesday shows on of two things or both.

It's an interesting look into the psyche of ultra-capitalists and how much they value business and how much they defer to rich and powerful people, or even those merely claiming to be rich and powerful and who talk like they know what they're doing (see Chavira's awkward exchange with LeBlanc). Closing down pools, recreation centres, libraries, laying off police and firemen; all these things seem to be less important than potentially losing a few jobs. And it's not even a guarantee that Westgate would have been screwed beyond repair had the Yotes left. This probably doesn't happen in American cities with more competent leadership, but I do think the cult of jobs and business owners would make many sane politicians cower. As a Canadian, it seems almost unfathomable to ever see that happen here as core social services would seem to be the last things that you would cut. Our capitalism seems to be a little less unhinged.

But maybe I'm overthinking this. Maybe it's just a case of lobbying, pay-offs, electoral promises and corruption. Maybe Westgate, the NHL and RSE simply had their hands deeper up these 4 Councillors ***** than their own constituents.

 

[Killion]

I'm talking about from Leblanc and co and their expectations.

I havent heard anything on that front, non-specific, just platitudes from Le Blanc, "expect the public to open their wallets" (oh, I just bet you do Tony). Presumptuous at this stage having not even closed the sale to be "demanding" anything from the market. In fact, even IF they do acquire the team, theyve gotta watch it, walk a fine line. You cant just be shooting off your mouth with "we require a minimum of 12,500 seasons ticket subscribers for the 14/15 season or else" and then of course jack the prices up by 30% while also charging for parking.... Ya. That'll go over big huh? Put them in real solid with the poblic, sports fans. Geezus this whole thing just pisses me off...

 

[Killion]

But maybe I'm overthinking this. Maybe it's just a case of lobbying, pay-offs, electoral promises and corruption. Maybe Westgate, the NHL and RSE simply had their hands deeper up these 4 Councillors ***** than their own constituents.

Maybe we all are. Who knows. Thank God for music & wine. Absolutely snap without it when contemplating this mess of a....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7Gee3THtb8 ... there, feel so much better.

 

[TheWestWing]

To all that said LePew is not thinking of the fans, I offer you this from todays AZFishwrap article linked earlier:

'The prospective owners will charge parking fees of $10 a car for hockey and $15 a car for other events for as many as 5,500 parking spaces in the Westgate Entertainment District. Combined, the parking fees will generate $2.2 million a year for the city, IceArizona executives estimate.

In addition, they’ll add ticket surcharges of $3 a ticket for Coyotes games and $5 for other events, for a combined total of $3.2 million, they estimate. There also will be a secondary charge of $1.50 a ticket to create a $1.2 million reserve for the city to tap if IceArizona’s projections fall short.

Coyotes fans already were scheduled to pay a total of $4.45 per ticket for two surcharges in the 2013-14 season. The new formula will push the total to $4.50 per ticket, but fans won’t notice because surcharges are included in the price of Coyotes tickets, team President Mike Nealy said.

Team executives have no intent to raise the face value of tickets by a nickel because of the new agreement. Instead, the team will absorb the five-cent per ticket increase, so a $35 ticket will remain $35 and a $300 ticket will remain $300.'

 

[Confucius]

I dont think the deal closes at all quite frankly as the howls have yet to be heard. But when they are, thats when things go off the rails. Before August 4th. If they still proceed & close, Im certain writs are dropped, injunctions requested. As for the Audit & "people" possibly winding up being indicted, could happen, but that'll take some time. Several months. The Attorney Generals Offices, the State Police, Justice Department, further investigations.... Ed Beasley doin 2-5 at Phoenix West State Prison sitting there in his cell watching NHL Gamecentre on his 22" LED TV, gift from Bill & Gary to help pass the time.

Some of the funniest **** you've ever posted. This will close, I'd imagine RSE would sue the league if after all this they turned them down. What happens after closing may be entertaining