Phoenix, worst case scenario
- Thread starter Space Herpe
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The Coyotes will be Hamilton bound after next season do to the fact no other prospective owners have come forward other than Quebecor who want to bring a team back to Quebec City but with political delays regarding a new arena it could be at least a year or 2 before they get shovel in the ground . A deal with Jim Balsille can be done quick easy because of his passion for the game & is willing to do anything to make his dream of owning & bringing a team to southwestern Ontario (Hamilton) come true .
Killion
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- Feb 19, 2010
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Well this is weird. I just bought a bag of chips not 15 minutes ago. Some new fangled MummaZumma brand. Dont recommend. Rattlesnake HOT!.
Its crazy Mork, but he's right. The NHL's "leveraging" franchise values upwards by hanging on in Phoenix which when you combine their purchase price of $140M with their losses pushes the value/asking price for the franchise if sold on a relo basis to just north of $200M, excluding whatever relocation fee they may apply to the transaction. This benefits all 29 teams, as it artificially increases overall franchise values. Dig?.
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Well this is weird. I just bought a bag of chips not 15 minutes ago. Some new fangled MummaZumma brand. Dont recommend. Rattlesnake HOT!.
Its crazy Mork, but he's right. The NHL's "leveraging" franchise values upwards by hanging on in Phoenix which when you combine their purchase price of $140M with their losses pushes the value/asking price for the franchise if sold on a relo basis to just north of $200M, excluding whatever relocation fee they may apply to the transaction. This benefits all 29 teams, as it artificially increases overall franchise values. Dig?.
I'm a little slow today, but now I get it. The NHL is probably not intending to keep the team in Glendale, but just wants to flip it to another location at a high enough price that it will cover their losses and at the same time artificially inflate the value of the franchise. Is that close?
Hamilton Tigers
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berklon
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- Dec 24, 2008
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If RIM's shares drop further, do you think Balsillie will still be interested (assuming he even still is now)? His financial situation could be much worse a year from now making it tough to buy an NHL team. He will still be wealthy, but maybe not wealthy enough. I think someone else has to step up to the plate (either solo or with Balsillie) if this has any chance of happening IMO.
I think there are plenty of others willing and able to match what Balsillie offered for a team in Southern Ontario. I think it might come to Toronto, despite the wishes of the Leafs. The NHL seems to like money, and they will find more of it there than anywhere else.
Bettman has already stated the Copps Coliseum is inadequate for the NHL. It doesn't put Hamilton in a better position than Quebec : there is no plan to upgrade the arena or to build a new arena.
And there is currently no delay regarding the arena in Quebec. The construction is still planned to start in 2013. Work is currently being done to study the needs. People confuse the problem with arena management contract and the construction of the arena. That's two separate things.
I don't think the NHL. & Gary Bettman want a 2nd team in Toronto because of the costs that would come along with it a new arena , the team , paying off mlse & other legal costs a 2nd team in Toronto could cost will into the billions . I think when another NHL. team comes to southern ontario it will in Hamilton or somewhere else in southwestern ontario like London , Kitchener\Waterloo , Cambridge or Aldershot but most likely Hamilton reason I say this is that southwestern ontario is the largest unserved NHL. market in North America & Toronto is not in fact Toronto is the worst pro sports market in North America .
Canadiens1958
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Jim Balsillie
First you have to separate the value of RIM shares from how many JB is holding and how nuch JB has cashed out into real dollars that are not affected by RIM shares.
The GTA / Southern Ontario market will have plenty of suitors with or without JB. The main issue is satisfying the Leafs perhaps the Sabres or even the Red Wings depending on how radius restrictions impact the final location and creating a marketing synergy with the Leafs and/or the Sabres/Red Wings. Something as basic as the lucrative Saturday night home dates will impact the indemnity to the Leafs.
First you have to separate the value of RIM shares from how many JB is holding and how nuch JB has cashed out into real dollars that are not affected by RIM shares.
The GTA / Southern Ontario market will have plenty of suitors with or without JB. The main issue is satisfying the Leafs perhaps the Sabres or even the Red Wings depending on how radius restrictions impact the final location and creating a marketing synergy with the Leafs and/or the Sabres/Red Wings. Something as basic as the lucrative Saturday night home dates will impact the indemnity to the Leafs.
Canadiens1958
Registered User
Quebec City
The NHL can wait 16 or 20 years without a franchise in Quebec City does not change much if anything.
Quebecor and Pierre Karl Peladeau cannot wait since the resulting shortfalls from the media and communications revenue streams will never be replaced.
The NHL can wait 16 or 20 years without a franchise in Quebec City does not change much if anything.
Quebecor and Pierre Karl Peladeau cannot wait since the resulting shortfalls from the media and communications revenue streams will never be replaced.
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Killion
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Yep, that'd be correct....
Much better. However, that being said, my feeling is that Peladeau & Quebecor have the inside track, wouldnt be adverse to the price tag.
No question about QC being the runaway favorites for a relo. If this was a 2 horse race right now, today, QC' would be well in front, particularly as it relates to the Coyotes. Secondly and more importantly, no one has stepped from the shadows in championing Hamilton so until that happens...... As for the NHL's continued nonsense about Copps?. They really need to get over themselves. For 5yrs we've heard about how "woefully inadequate" the MTS is, yet here we are and Welcome Home to the Jets. Total Red Herring.
Yep, that'd be correct....
Much better. However, that being said, my feeling is that Peladeau & Quebecor have the inside track, wouldnt be adverse to the price tag.
No question about QC being the runaway favorites for a relo. If this was a 2 horse race right now, today, QC' would be well in front, particularly as it relates to the Coyotes. Secondly and more importantly, no one has stepped from the shadows in championing Hamilton so until that happens...... As for the NHL's continued nonsense about Copps?. They really need to get over themselves. For 5yrs we've heard about how "woefully inadequate" the MTS is, yet here we are and Welcome Home to the Jets. Total Red Herring.
I'd be very surprised if any re-alignment for 2012-13 does not anticipate the possibility of a move from Phoenix to Quebec City. IMO whatever they come up with will easily accommodate a QC franchise.
The difference in cost between Hamilton and 2nd Toronto team is?
New arena for Toronto -vs- Upgrade or new arena for Hamilton + indemnification fee for Sabres.
On a cost alone basis, Hamilton seems more expensive.
berklon
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- Dec 24, 2008
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Indemnification fees for the 2nd team in Toronto will probably be higher than one for Hamilton as it's in the same city and a 2nd arena in Toronto competes directly against the ACC for events. MLSE will never let that happen.
Plus Copps is owned by the city, so any upgrade costs come from the city - not a new potential owner.
Well we don't know if Mississauga would build an arena for a team. Just like we don't know what Hamilton would contribute towards an arena. I think Leafs would ask the same for indemnification whether the team is in Hamilton, Mississauga or Markham. Doesn't seem to be much difference to me. A few km closer no big deal.
Killion
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I agree. Peladeau needs content for his french language cable network & other media interests, and nothing turns the NHL's head like the promise of that. This factor alone IMO virtually guarantee's Quebec re-entry into the league, not to mention Quebecors' fairly sterling reputation & heft, particularly in Quebec of course, the new arena which will surely get done; the ability to use the Colisee' temporarily etc.
What to make of Gary Bettmans statement that "Atlanta was a one-off, we wont be relocating anymore teams"?. Im guessing that statement like many others he makes has an expiry date on it that only he's aware of, so dont be tucking in to that tasty treat just yet. Not unless youve' got a glass of Walkerton Water handy to wash it down with. Might as well just plug your nose & chuggalugg the whole steaming pile in one gulp, curl up in the fetal position & hope for the best as the tremors set in......
Since it is a Phoenix thread I meant the league wouldn't wait that long in regard to the Yotes. As for any other team in the future, well yeah if the arena is built, sure Quebec has a great shot at a team.
Mere puffery. A brave face that even he might have believed at the time, but it won't last. The lure of profits over losses will work like a magnet if not for Phoenix then for some other struggling franchise.
$64-million cap and $48-million floor. How many money-losing teams can afford that salary structure for very long?
Well if I'm in Edmonton I'm thrilled. Hope someone emailed Katz a copy of Bettman's claim.
OthmarAmmann
Omnishambles
davemac1313
Registered User
Yep, that'd be correct....
Much better. However, that being said, my feeling is that Peladeau & Quebecor have the inside track, wouldnt be adverse to the price tag.
No question about QC being the runaway favorites for a relo. If this was a 2 horse race right now, today, QC' would be well in front, particularly as it relates to the Coyotes. Secondly and more importantly, no one has stepped from the shadows in championing Hamilton so until that happens...... As for the NHL's continued nonsense about Copps?. They really need to get over themselves. For 5yrs we've heard about how "woefully inadequate" the MTS is, yet here we are and Welcome Home to the Jets. Total Red Herring.
Lets face it, if your paying 200 for the franchise, 200 for relocation fee and 50 million for renos to copps, the NHL will be happy, and for whatever owner it is still about 250 million less than a new arena and the COH or Ontario government is likely to help the reno cost.
I say if the $$$ are there, 1st choice Hamilton, second choice Quebec
BULL the cost of renovating Copps would be between 100 - 150 million when you include the cost of paying off the leafs & to a lesser extent the sabers which should be no more than 25 - 50 million each along with the cost of the team between 200 -340 million you are looking at grand total 325 - 550 million maybe to bring a team to Hamilton . As for 2nd Toronto you are looking at 500 million for a new arena the costs of the team between 200 - 400 just because it is Toronto & the costs of paying off MLSE . 150 million plus other legal costs for grand total of between 900 million - 1.5 billion .
Hamilton - 550 million
2nd Toronto - 1.5 billion
