Phoenix Part XXXII: Bridge over Troubled Goldwater

[Jeffrey93]

CBC -second intermission of Canuck game - saying deal to move to Winnipeg is in place. CBC is the league's lapdog, I very much doubt they would make such clear statement without very solid information.

You seem to have interpreted that differently than I did.

They used lots of words like 'possibly', 'believe', 'could', 'potentially', 'reported', etc.

And they only reported it because the FAN 590 reported it....that was their "source"....other media people.

 

[Jeffrey93]

just trying to help out the ol' COG....if they believe that the parking lot can pay back $250m over 30 years then buying them for $100m is a smart investment for the taxpayers of glendale....they shouldnt be arrested for that, they should erect a bronze, gretzky-like statue in front of the arena depicting lieberman patting little logan on the head....a symbol of the future prosperity of the great suburb of glendale arizona.

That's like $200k in parking revenues for every home game.

Average attendance is 12,208 reported....we'll say 11,750 actual. Fair?

That is $17 for every spectator in the building.

Assume very few go to the games alone (or meet their buddy there and agree to each pay $17 in parking) and that half of that attendance figure is with a friend, spouse, etc. That reduces the parking paying people from 11,750 to about 8,812. So assuming 8,812 cars were driven to a game with an attendance of 11,750....it would mean they paid $22 each for parking. So if Glendale figures 8,800 cars will show up and PAY for parking at $22 a game....sure....they can make that much.

How many spots is Glendale buying the rights to anyway? Is it over 8,800?

 

[Hal 9000*]

You may have hit the nail on the head. Someone connected to Glendale City told me this was actively under discussion.

The parking rights are not real. They were gonna give Hulsizer $100 mil., they needed it to not look like a handout so they concocted this whole "we're buying parking rights" sham. The GWI called them out on it.

 

[Whileee]

After a few weeks of absolutely no information from "sources" or the NHL's mainstream media (TSN and CBC), we now have a deluge of rumours about the "imminent" demise of Hulsizer's deal. This seems designed to pressure the City of Glendale and Hulsizer to make their best efforts to come to an agreement, and quickly. I don't think it necessarily means that the deal is any further from completion that it has been over the past several weeks, but rather that the NHL's time limit is reaching its conclusion. I think this also fits with the enhanced political maneuvering of McCain, which might have been prompted by an ultimatum that has been recently delivered to the City of Glendale. Now it is up to Glendale and Hulsizer, but they appear to be very much "on the clock" now.

 

[kdb209]

That's like $200k in parking revenues for every home game.

Average attendance is 12,208 reported....we'll say 11,750 actual. Fair?

That is $17 for every spectator in the building.

Assume very few go to the games alone (or meet their buddy there and agree to each pay $17 in parking) and that half of that attendance figure is with a friend, spouse, etc. That reduces the parking paying people from 11,750 to about 8,812. So assuming 8,812 cars were driven to a game with an attendance of 11,750....it would mean they paid $22 each for parking. So if Glendale figures 8,800 cars will show up and PAY for parking at $22 a game....sure....they can make that much.

How many spots is Glendale buying the rights to anyway? Is it over 8,800?

The parking agreement called for a minimum of 5500 spots (with 500 made available to the arena operator).

Note, however, thet CoG is buying the parking rights for ALL arena events - not just the 'Yotes games.

 

[DeathToAllButMetal]

After a few weeks of absolutely no information from "sources" or the NHL's mainstream media (TSN and CBC), we now have a deluge of rumours about the "imminent" demise of Hulsizer's deal. This seems designed to pressure the City of Glendale and Hulsizer to make their best efforts to come to an agreement, and quickly. I don't think it necessarily means that the deal is any further from completion that it has been over the past several weeks, but rather that the NHL's time limit is reaching its conclusion. I think this also fits with the enhanced political maneuvering of McCain, which might have been prompted by an ultimatum that has been recently delivered to the City of Glendale. Now it is up to Glendale and Hulsizer, but they appear to be very much "on the clock" now.

Agreed. But I don't understand what the pressure is about. What options are there? Glendale can't fund this purchase directly. I doubt council would be okay with a direct cash infusion from their reserves, and Goldwater would definitely be against it. That would be patently illegal, much more transparently so than the scam they've proposed with the bonds. All that seems possible here is Hulsizer paying the whole freight, which we know he will not do.

I just hope the Wings end this circus ASAP by taking out the Coyotes in four. This whole thing is going to overshadow the entire playoffs. Serves the NHL right, really. Biggest story of the first day was the Jets return. ROFL at the Count and Fester.

 

[Jeffrey93]

The parking agreement called for a minimum of 5500 spots (with 500 made available to the arena operator).

Note, however, thet CoG is buying the parking rights for ALL arena events - not just the 'Yotes games.

Well...factor in non-hockey events how you see fit....5,500 spots equates to $36 for every person attending a Coyotes game.

Thanks for the info. Seems like a lofty expectation though....I'm sure if I had the means to dig into it further (like Goldwater does) I could make it a positively lofty goal. People go to events in groups of 2 to 5 usually. I showed the per person for Coyotes games...so are there 5 times more events than Coyotes games? Is Jobing booking events for 12,000+ fans 200+ times a year?

 

[Whileee]

So isn't that really the point? The hatred and frustration toward Goldwater should really be focused on the NHL and Hulziser for trying to get the City of Glendale to subsidize their team instead of finding someone to actually PURCHASE the team.

If no one is willing to buy this team...then what does that say for the long term viability of hockey in the desert?

They cant do that RAgin, its in direct contravention of the Gift Clause & every rule in the book. Their still worried about the $25M they guaranteed last June that was pulled from the Enterprise Fund, was supposed to have never been used in a wave of optimism that a deal was "imminent", and ever since have being playing a game of Hide the Pea with it. Now its here, now its being covered by Hulsizer, now its not. Initially the funds were drawn from the Enterprise Account on a temporary basis, to be returned & then replenished by funds from Ellmans parking garage deposits that were being held in escrow. The GWI still thinks that this procedure contravenes the Constitution so we'll see what happens when & if the COG ever does in fact pay the NHL the money it promised. I doubt very much that they will.

Yup. I agree entirely. The $25 million already had them gun-shy, so adding another $100 million would seem to be a bridge too far.

Having said that, the $100 million would certainly be cheaper money than that raised on the bond market if the interest rates are as high as some reports have placed them.

But in the end, doesn't it seem that if Glendale was really serious about completing this deal and secure in its legality, they would have taken this to court by now to clear the legal impediments to the bond sale? I think that whatever happens, they are highly motivated to stay out of the courts and have instead run a rather ineffective PR campaign to scare off the GWI. That has been a comprehensive failure, and it seems like that was their only strategy.

 

[Whileee]

Agreed. But I don't understand what the pressure is about. What options are there? Glendale can't fund this purchase directly. I doubt council would be okay with a direct cash infusion from their reserves, and Goldwater would definitely be against it. That would be patently illegal, much more transparently so than the scam they've proposed with the bonds. All that seems possible here is Hulsizer paying the whole freight, which we know he will not do.

I just hope the Wings end this circus ASAP by taking out the Coyotes in four. This whole thing is going to overshadow the entire playoffs. Serves the NHL right, really. Biggest story of the first day was the Jets return. ROFL at the Count and Fester.

At this point, I suppose that the NHL is not all that concerned with what options Glendale might have. I think they have just raised the white flag (NASCAR style) and let the principals know that this is the final lap. If Glendale and Hulsizer can pull off a "Hail Mary" to save the deal, the NHL would be delighted. But I expect that they are pessimistic based on what has transpired over the past few months.

 

[Alex The Loyal]

I just hope the Wings end this circus ASAP by taking out the Coyotes in four. This whole thing is going to overshadow the entire playoffs. Serves the NHL right, really. Biggest story of the first day was the Jets return. ROFL at the Count and Fester.

Agreed. It's the only reason I'm cheering for that blasted team

 

[Dado]

TSN now tv-reporting "heavy negotiations" between Bettman, Daly and Chipman over the past "two, three days".

 

[Alex The Loyal]

Why the hell are they saying this when everyone's asleep?

 

[Winnipeg Jets]

Why the hell are they saying this when everyone's asleep?

So a ****-storm does not brew, perhaps?

Very interesting though and not really out of left field considering the absence of news in the last couple of weeks. I just hope TNSE doesn't get used as a pawn to force the deal to close. It would be nice if those rumours of compensation for a deal between TNSE and the NHL going sour were true.

 

[Dado]

Dnno. There are as many "when"s as "could"s in what they're saying, these guys are clearly projecting a welcome-back-Jets attitude.

 

[Vanier Park]

TSN now tv-reporting "heavy negotiations" between Bettman, Daly and Chipman over the past "two, three days".

Kypreos and McLean just said the same on Sportnet Hockeycentral.

 

[Dado]

Kypreos and McLean just said the same on Sportnet Hockeycentral.

Ah **** - I got my cable overlords confused - it was in fact SN that I was watching.

Apologies!

 

[Jeffrey93]

Kypreos and McLean just said the same on Sportnet Hockeycentral.

Those clowns repeatedly use each other as sources. It drives me nuts. The rare time they hit on something with teeth it is hard to reference it because they so often take shots in the dark.

I find it hard to believe they would have any sources that could tell them WHO the NHL is talking with....they might be able to find out that there are talks...but to know who those talks are with seems like it would have to be one of the parties involved leaking it. Which I find hard to believe at this point.

 

[TerminatorBlue]

So a ****-storm does not brew, perhaps?

Very interesting though and not really out of left field considering the absence of news in the last couple of weeks. I just hope TNSE doesn't get used as a pawn to force the deal to close. It would be nice if those rumours of compensation for a deal between TNSE and the NHL going sour were true.

IMO that's exactly what they are doing and have been doing these last couple of years. Very disrespectful to Winnipeg and there fans.

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

Seeing as how we're at ~950 posts...

Phoenix XXXIII: That's it! Back to Winnipeg!

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Those clowns repeatedly use each other as sources. It drives me nuts. The rare time they hit on something with teeth it is hard to reference it because they so often take shots in the dark.

I find it hard to believe they would have any sources that could tell them WHO the NHL is talking with....they might be able to find out that there are talks...but to know who those talks are with seems like it would have to be one of the parties involved leaking it. Which I find hard to believe at this point.

You don't think its plausible that the NHL, with $140 million+ invested is talking to the only known interested party about Plan B so they aren't on the hook for another $25-40 M for next season's losses?

 

[Whileee]

Those clowns repeatedly use each other as sources. It drives me nuts. The rare time they hit on something with teeth it is hard to reference it because they so often take shots in the dark.

I find it hard to believe they would have any sources that could tell them WHO the NHL is talking with....they might be able to find out that there are talks...but to know who those talks are with seems like it would have to be one of the parties involved leaking it. Which I find hard to believe at this point.

So far, no news of discussions with owners linked to Kansas City or Portland or Hamilton. It's probably just an oversight though...

 

[Le Golie]

Those clowns repeatedly use each other as sources. It drives me nuts. The rare time they hit on something with teeth it is hard to reference it because they so often take shots in the dark.

I find it hard to believe they would have any sources that could tell them WHO the NHL is talking with....they might be able to find out that there are talks...but to know who those talks are with seems like it would have to be one of the parties involved leaking it. Which I find hard to believe at this point.

The rest of us find it hard to believe people would question who the NHL would be talking with.

It's so obvious.

 

[Jeffrey93]

IMO that's exactly what they are doing and have been doing these last couple of years. Very disrespectful to Winnipeg and there fans.

Every league does this and it is actually something the NHL is good at.

Remember....in case you forgot....I'm from Hamilton. We get how the NHL uses more than suitable markets as "pawns". We've been that pawn...basically on our own for a few decades. Winnipeg has recently joined the club. As newcomers they are all fired up and anxious....hopes and dreams are limitless. If...I said if....they join the club...those dreams and hopes will soon become dull....indifference will be the feeling of choice. The attitude of 'We have shown we are worthy before....we aren't doing it any longer." will increase....then the locals will begin resenting the very thing they want....the attitude of 'Until we get a team....$*#& them!'. Many will use that tho show your city isn't "worthy" of an NHL franchise. Every now and again a carrot will be dangled in front of you....and you will try as hard as you can to get it....but you won't. Then you will be scolded for not trying harder....or for eventually not trying.

Hopefully Winnipeg doesn't become the pawn that Hamilton has been for decades...I wouldn't wish that on anyone. However....it is odd that the biggest pawn....the most used pawn....sits idle still. No team....lots of people....lots of money....a bigger building....and this time...no carrot?? Seems weird. I'm personally taking meds to keep the seizures at bay. It is just something I can't deal with....I'm not used to it. A team that may be on the move and Hamilton isn't a threatened destination?? Imagine if suddenly you woke up and up was down and down was up. That is how it seems right now.....the meds help. But I can't help but wonder if there are a few "interested parties" (as Daly called them) representing Hamilton.

Don't worry though....3 Canadian markets are at least on the radar....1 team might move (playing the odds)....so there will at least be 2 Canadian cities left to play the role of 'pawn' for the NHL.

 

[xtra]

The main reason that Glendale won't touch the enterprise fund other than the whole gift clause thing is that this current group of politicians won't have to worry about the bonds that are due in 30 years but taking it out of the enterprise fund means any major project that comes up in their time that doesn't have the needed funding will be a huge black mark agsaint them

 

[Jeffrey93]

The rest of us find it hard to believe people would question who the NHL would be talking with.

It's so obvious.

What makes it obvious? The media reports? It is a cycle. The media continually reports something...with little to no facts. Then other media uses that media as a "source"....then repeat.

For all we know......the NHL told Winnipeg to bug off and they just keep hounding them.

Do you honestly believe...that should a team become available for relocation (which means a ready-made team) that only ONE GROUP would be interested in buying it?!?!?

Heck...they got 2 or 3 to show interest in the Coyotes in Phoenix. I'd think the NHL could garner quite a bit more interest for a portable playoff team.

But yeah...yer right. It could only possibly one. Why look elsewhere? Why pick up the phone? Why shop around? It just makes total sense to listen to the Canadian media and exclusively talk to only one group when it comes to relocation.

After all....if you eventually have to relocate a franchise....why look at several markets....that is just silly. They only do that when expanding.....I'm not sure why though. Something about where they want teams to be....finances...population...demand...bah! Whatever...that's expansion. In relocation you just take the group that is talked about most in the media and go with them. The media won't jerk you around.