Phoenix LXXXIX: If you don't approve it, we must move it!

[metalfoot]

So what's the latest that's even going on? People seem to be pretty confident that the CoG will vote no. Why's that?

Basically, the CoG refused to accept RSE's terms, as they simply cannot sustain that guaranteed cash outflow with no equally guaranteed cash inflow to offset it.

They substituted their own revision, which also gives the CoG an out-clause which is, essentially, a deal-breaker for RSE, as their major loan is contingent on the CoG guaranteeing the income.

So it's not even necessarily that the CoG will vote 'no' at this point so much as that they may very well vote 'yes' to a deal which is unpalatable to the group wishing to buy the Coyotes.

 

[madhi19]

The fact that they threatened to leave before does not matter with today situation. After all the NHL got what they wanted every times they played that card. $25MM twice and the Jamison lease last year. It hard to tell if the other guy bluffing when you fold on every hands. The crazy part is I totally think the NHL at least bluffed once or twice in the past four years.

 

[rasarhdasd]

Just wanted to say this is the best title ever.

 

[cobra427]

Look, the pair of them are just Toronto-centric badly dressed talking heads with cheap haircuts and an opinion about everything, arrogantly believing they've got it all dialled in. Might be half believable if they were wearing their suits instead of their suits wearing them and they werent complete & utter sell-outs to whatever messaging the NHL itself tells them to espouse & opine about. Amateurs.



Well I think you underestimate the man and his resolve, contempt for the NHL & the offers tabled by not only RSE but previous suitors. This guys not about to be bullied or rushed into making a $225M decision based on what he clearly & objectively perceives as hollow promises, Carpetbagging. He's imagined life without the team, has seen the Beacon bids, realizes that there is life without the franchise, would like them to stay but not at any cost. He'd be a local Hero if he shows them the door. More than enough justification already for doing exactly that. Unfortunate that he's so polite, well mannered & civil while donning the veils of his office. Im sure over a few glasses of Wild Turkey the Real Jerry would come out, and what a Hoot that would be. Flay the lot of them alive.

I agree he does not want to be bullied or rushed, so he can vote NO to the RSE proposal. RSE made a proposal, the COG just needs to vote on it. If it is a clear NO, then it will be 0-7 vote. RSE can give the COG firm answers on issues, as they have, within hours. We don't really know where the COG stands until there is a vote on a proposal by the proposer (RSE), not the other way around. Weirs won't be a local hero around here if the team leaves, he will get the blame by not allowing a vote or voting NO and having enough NO votes for the team to leave.

 

[BeardedCanuck]

I agree he does not want to be bullied or rushed, so he can vote NO to the RSE proposal. RSE made a proposal, the COG just needs to vote on it. If it is a clear NO, then it will be 0-7 vote. RSE can give the COG firm answers on issues, as they have, within hours. We don't really know where the COG stands until there is a vote on a proposal by the proposer (RSE), not the other way around. Weirs won't be a local hero around here if the team leaves, he will get the blame by not allowing a vote or voting NO and having enough NO votes for the team to leave.

I read a quote earlier that said bassically none of the council members would have voted yes on it. The problem with voting on RSE proposal is there is only a limited amount of time. The COG has put out a counter offer they may vote yes on, the RSE proposal they wouldn't have and it would have been the deadline when they vote no on that one and the deadline would have passed and the team moves for sure.

 

[Slashers98]

Not when you look at the bigger picture. They'd be angrier than a hive of Yellowjackets if the basement Cap rises by $3M, $5M, $7M or more over the next few years with Quebec's success, Montreals by rote, all of the Canadian franchises really. As insane as it sounds, as what Im saying here actually is, that you want to Pejorative Slur, stop, put the brakes on HRR increases, this I believe is a serious issue amongst the BOG's. Right out of the box, Quebec would be spectacular. Look at Winnipeg? And Id bet you QC would surpass even them. So to quote myself & post again...

I have to disagree here, the NHL not moving to Quebec City because the salary floor will rise? It's nonsensical to keep a money-bleeding franchise without an owner only the prevent the cap from going up. The other owners certainly don't want to pay for the Coyotes' losses without a massive subsidy from Glendale and no arena management deal. They are gone after July 3rd.

 

[Killion]

Like Quebec City wasn't a logical choice when the Thrashers moved, Seattle isn't either now. Maybe in a few years, just like Quebec cIty only makes sense now.

Probably within 6-10mnths Seattles situation settled, and quite likely for the good, for the betterment of the league as a whole as they do indeed require a footprint in the US PNW. Long desirous of such. Since at least 74 when they did conditionally grant Seattle a franchise (financing cratered). Quebec City, between the Cap issues, that its Canadian & not US, possible the Molsons & Desmarais resistant but willing to negotiate, some deep waters there, but if pushed, ya, I could see the NHL pulling the trigger today, next week, selling to PKP. I just dont think strategically they want to. Sometimes we cant do what we want though, and you have to do whatever in an emergency. I dont believe this is a full on 5 alarm emergency, and that the NHL's options are many, first & foremost to create as still a pond as possible. Im just "throwing it out there". Obviously I havent any more idea than you nor anyone else. But logically, its where I arrive, that it looks like they could just stay put. Stay still. Transition out of Phoenix on their own terms. They have the power to do so.

So I don't know if it would work like this but wouldn't the teams that you mentioned would benefit from the Coyotoes moving to somewhere successful, wouldn't it mean more money from revenue sharing for them? Yea the cap may go up but so would revenue sharing so I don't see the disadvantage to those teams.

Not enough to mitigate the hit of the floor & ceiling going up. The financial powerhouses afforded far more in securing UFA's & RFA's, buying Cups. This is a big problem. Youd have the bottom feeders playing Tippett or Lemaire hockey. Left Wing Locks & Neutral Zone Traps. Boring as all Hell and losing rather than winning as the talent would be concentrated in Chicago, Philly, New York, Toronto & elsewhere. Were about to witness massive buyouts (Leclavaier just 2 days ago) pursuant to the re-negotiated CBA. Coming out of the 04/05 Lockout, the attrition rate in buyouts & forced retirements, underperforming contracts expelled, double what it was in 2003. Last falls lockout all about getting rid of the dead wood in as much as it was about lowering the players HRR from 57-50%. Younger, cheaper talent in-bound. In any number of US markets, you either win consistently, make an effort, or your looking at a crash at the gate, empty seats. Believe me, youd be more upset if your Tallon in Florida & youve got a budget at the basement $25M+ less than than the ceiling teams are only too happy to meet, Floridas owners screaming Blue Murder when already facing major challenges in filling their rink. You add QC, and as I said, God help them if Toronto starts running deep in the playoffs, meltdowns.

 

[Tawnos]

Not when you look at the bigger picture. They'd be angrier than a hive of Yellowjackets if the basement Cap rises by $3M, $5M, $7M or more over the next few years with Quebec's success, Montreals by rote, all of the Canadian franchises really. As insane as it sounds, as what Im saying here actually is, that you want to Pejorative Slur, stop, put the brakes on HRR increases, this I believe is a serious issue amongst the BOG's. Right out of the box, Quebec would be spectacular. Look at Winnipeg? And Id bet you QC would surpass even them. So to quote myself & post again...

I actually think the potential for drastic HRR increases is even more unpalatable to the owners in the middle of the pack, who have payroll fluctuations regularly determining if their team is in the black or in the red.* They benefit a ton by having teams at the bottom dragging the midpoint down.

*not that I buy the numbers teams put out regarding their profitability, but that's another issue altogether

 

[kdb209]

While engaging in a little thread archeology, I found a Coyotes thread that isn't in the list...

04-28-2009 The Arizona Republic: NHL loan keeps Coyotes operating

The original poster had placed this in the Hockey in the Desert II thread, but Fugu spun it off into it's own thread to keep it from getting lost. Of course little did she know that in seven days all hell was about to break loose...

Duly unearthed and added ...

Fresh from Al Capone's Geraldo Rivera's Evil Doctor's Vault - The Lost Thread:
04-28-2009 The Arizona Republic: NHL loan keeps Coyotes operating

 

[Fugu]

While engaging in a little thread archeology, I found a Coyotes thread that isn't in the list...

04-28-2009 The Arizona Republic: NHL loan keeps Coyotes operating

The original poster had placed this in the Hockey in the Desert II thread, but Fugu spun it off into it's own thread to keep it from getting lost. Of course little did she know that in seven days all hell was about to break loose...

I enjoyed my squish, squish, squish exchange with GSC. Ah, those were the days.

 

[Mungman]

Just taking a break here at the lake to catch up. Three observations:
- beer tastes best on the beach
- my cell data sucks up here
- the modified deal CoG is voting on is still a polished turd. Shinier than a couple days ago, but still stinky.

 

[JimmyRaynor]

Basically, the CoG refused to accept RSE's terms, as they simply cannot sustain that guaranteed cash outflow with no equally guaranteed cash inflow to offset it.

They substituted their own revision, which also gives the CoG an out-clause which is, essentially, a deal-breaker for RSE, as their major loan is contingent on the CoG guaranteeing the income.

So it's not even necessarily that the CoG will vote 'no' at this point so much as that they may very well vote 'yes' to a deal which is unpalatable to the group wishing to buy the Coyotes.

ok, here is some super pyscho-babble that politicians like to use to their advantage.

by making "some kind of counter deal" in which the council can gleefully stand up and say "YES" to they can appear to be the positive happy guys who really want to make the Coyotes work in Glendale.

This forces the NHL to say "NO" and makes the NHL put forth the "negative tone".

Very smart move by Weiers. This ain't his first rodeo.

 

[danishh]

Daryl Jones ‏@HedgeyeDJ 3m
It ain't over until the fat lady sings.

 

[Fourier]

I enjoyed my squish, squish, squish exchange with GSC. Ah, those were the days.

Ain't that the truth.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Daryl Jones ‏@HedgeyeDJ 3m
It ain't over until the fat lady sings.

Still think they will find a way to pull this out.

 

[Killion]

Weirs won't be a local hero around here if the team leaves, he will get the blame by not allowing a vote or voting NO and having enough NO votes for the team to leave.

I see. Do you live in Glendale?

The other owners certainly don't want to pay for the Coyotes' losses...

Contributing to Revenue Sharing is not an option. How, where the NHL drops it at the administrative level, from Gary Bettmans desk, none of their business. You make 'X' you contribute 'Y'. Leafs dont like it? Tough. It was only last year they even had a seat on the all-powerful 10 Member Executive Committee. Imagine that? The wealthiest team in the league without a voice. Larry Tanebaum now riding shotgun for MLSE, a minority owner already with his hands full in dealing with Bell & Rogers. You think he's gonna rock the boat at league level? Not a chance. League HRR's start spiking with the addition of QC, thats good for him & the Leafs, they can spend more on players, and so what if they have to drop another $2M into the RS kitty? Deep run in the playoffs, they make it by the barrel full. Same thing elsewhere. But what about the others, the 15 or thereabouts, some borderliners, some already stressed? They cant afford to even compete.... now, does it philosophically bother & annoy me Slashers, that rather than based on performance, free market, that the NHL operates on its ridiculous Cap (and franchise valuation) artificiality? Of course it does. Anything contrived, fake, bugs the Hell out of me. Make it on talent, not welfare. Y'know, like work, supply & demand. What most of us deal with in the real world. But to quote Todd Bertuzzi, "it is what it is".

 

[madhi19]

God help them if Toronto starts running deep in the playoffs, meltdowns.

And that where the cap argument fail a single deep playoff run of either Toronto, NYR or Montreal would likely push the cap way more than a team in Qc would. God help the bottom feeders if at least two of those three start going far every year.

 

[Brodie]

I enjoyed my squish, squish, squish exchange with GSC. Ah, those were the days.

If he were here, what would he say to this deal?

 

[Killion]

I actually think the potential for drastic HRR increases is even more unpalatable to the owners in the middle of the pack, who have payroll fluctuations regularly determining if their team is in the black or in the red.* They benefit a ton by having teams at the bottom dragging the midpoint down.

*not that I buy the numbers teams put out regarding their profitability, but that's another issue altogether

Exactly. This whole thing takes on a new dimension, one begins to glean just what exactlys going on here when you consider that. Highly problematical to just parachute a loser into a prime aaa market... say, is that a classic old Washburn youve got there?

 

[Fugu]

If he were here, what would he say to this deal?

You have the latest quote from Daly?

 

[Tawnos]

Exactly. This whole thing takes on a new dimension, one begins to glean just what exactlys going on here when you consider that. Highly problematical to just parachute a loser into a prime aaa market... say, is that a classic old Washburn youve got there?

Warwick Corvette. It's a beautiful bass.

Swamp ash body, 5 strings, brass nut, active electronics.

 

[madhi19]

Exactly. This whole thing takes on a new dimension, one begins to glean just what exactlys going on here when you consider that. Highly problematical to just parachute a loser into a prime aaa market... say, is that a classic old Washburn youve got there?

Let me put it this way they sure as hell don't want to relocate more than one black hole at a time. And that may explain why the NHL was so desperate to drag the Coyotes situation for so long.

 

[Tawnos]

Let me put it this way they sure as hell don't want to relocate more than one black hole at a time. And that may explain why the NHL was so desperate to drag the Coyotes situation for so long.

Better move them quick, then, because the Devils situation is looming. That'd solve the realignment issue real fast too. Phoenix to Seattle. NJD to QC.

 

[enarwpg]

http://www.trivalleycentral.com/cas...cle_0ca88084-e0ea-11e2-95b6-001a4bcf887a.html

“Now is the time for the city of Glendale to decide what they’re going to do,†said former Arizona Attorney General Grant Woods, who’s representing RSE. “They’ve driven a hard bargain and I give them credit for that, but they can’t screw around anymore. The NHL has given them a hard deadline and if they want to keep the Coyotes here and have the arena managed in a professional and successful way, they need to get on with it. If not, then the decision will be made for them.â€

Yeah Glendale, what the hell do you think your doing trying to get a good deal for yourselves. Stop "screwing around". Don't you understand Gary Bettman mantra is... capitulate.

Who is he talking about? RSE?

 

[Govment Cheese]

I agree he does not want to be bullied or rushed, so he can vote NO to the RSE proposal. RSE made a proposal, the COG just needs to vote on it. If it is a clear NO, then it will be 0-7 vote. RSE can give the COG firm answers on issues, as they have, within hours. We don't really know where the COG stands until there is a vote on a proposal by the proposer (RSE), not the other way around. Weirs won't be a local hero around here if the team leaves, he will get the blame by not allowing a vote or voting NO and having enough NO votes for the team to leave.

From watching the workshop COG is not going to vote on the RSE proposal. Tuesday the COG is going to vote on the revised proposal that shifts some of the risk to RSE and gives Glendale some protection. COG does not want to be left holding the bag when RSE craters Yotes and ops out in five years.
Did you even read or listen to some of the crap line items that RSE has in their proposal? COG would be stupid to accept the deal as written by RSE. Sounded to me like they are trying to work with RSE and not kill the deal out right.