Phoenix LXXVIII: Know When To Hold 'Em, Know When To Fold 'Em

[Major4Boarding]

Is that Sherwood saying LeBlanc gave him a hard number or is that Sherwood presuming a number??? Llama posted a presumed quote from Sherwood stating the number was $13 to $15. Your article states $14 to 15. One would think if Sherwood was given a hard number he wouldn't be fudging them over two interviews.

Trying to inject a sense of humor here TL, but I would sure hope that was Sherwood saying that. Craig Morgan quoted him.

Neither article states it's a direct number from LeBlanc from what I can see. All the recent mass speculating about this saga has made me anal about what actual numbers there are out there so apologies if I'm being such a nit picker.

Well... to me, hopping fences of $13-$15M and $14-$15M sounds a lot like

“Look, the reality is that any potential owner, myself included, will require a deal with the city that is very, very similar to the one that was on the table over the last several months”.

There may not be a set number TL, but you are at least seeing a range. A range that is "very,very" much over the bearable threshold.

 

[Wingsfan2965*]

So basically nothing has changed except Bettman has put the pressure on Glendale?

 

[mesamonster]

Just for fun, COG could make the nhl look bad by delaying their decision. Forcing the NHL to enter june without a lease and still waiting for an answer. It would force the NHL to pull the plug themselves instead having Glendale pull it for them.

Touche!! Mr. Bettman! This is all vintage GB, this guy is all about the optics w/o one care of what is realistic and likely. Once again, the COG has NO MONEY, how hard is that to understand? BTW, TL the cost of the AMF is not 12MM! If that is so it would be the highest in the NHL, by a sturdy margin.

The concept of the COG spotting a rat and deliberately stalling is priceless, watch the sawed off henchman squirm while assessing his next move in this chess match. Come on Mayor put some real brass on the line and stare down the Commish or have him into your lair and lower the elk on him!

Fire and police outside city hall collecting signatures with Mr. Jones supervising is wonderful theater! To all Glendale taxpayers, take some time and get to know the folks who keep you safe from fire and theft! In this case you have "the little one" descending on your fair city to rob you and your city of dollars you do not have. Suggestion: sign the petition please!

Should the COG lose their sensibilities or be hoodwinked by the little mobster, I sincerely hope GWI enters the fray with a curt letter announcing their opposition and thus delaying any lease deals being signed in the back room of the shack known as Glendale City Hall!

 

[GuelphStormer]

Just for fun, COG could make the nhl look bad by delaying their decision. Forcing the NHL to enter june without a lease and still waiting for an answer. It would force the NHL to pull the plug themselves instead having Glendale pull it for them.

unfortunately, the one time the City has undertaken due diligence during this whole saga by inviting arena management proposals (ones with real, presumably professionally calculated, numbers, not hocking or pollack numbers) and then engaging those submissions fairly establishes certain time frames that would make delaying and playing around with bettman a tad difficult, even though he would deserve it. just desserts. a karmic cupcake. its icing would be the resulting crunch timing that might additionally oblige the nhl to reluctantly accept less from pkp than it would have otherwise extortionally envisioned.

 

[Brodie]

the kind of selfishness that drives a person to think keeping their favorite hockey team is more important than the emergency services in a city the size of glendale is baffling to me

 

[CasualFan]

So basically nothing has changed except Bettman has put the pressure on Glendale?

What pressure can Gary put on Glendale?

Never mind your structural GF deficit and pending bond rating downgrade - Pay us an outrageous operational subsidy thats probably illegal AND give us all arena/parking revenues or we will take our blackhole money hemorraging franchise elsewhere?

The NHL has zero leverage in this matter. The league has essentially nothing of net value to offer a municipality in Glendales financial position.

 

[Major4Boarding]

And since I'm spending my morning quoting LeBlanc...

Feb 11th, 2013

"We understand that there are some cash constraints, but at the same time, we can't do a deal that wouldn't be economically feasible for us," LeBlanc said. "It's a verbose way of saying, 'Look, we understand that it won't be the same deal, but we're trying to find a middle ground that would make sense for both sides.'"

From the article yesterday

It may not be adequate, Sherwood said. Council members may have to consider new revenue streams to generate additional funds if NHL-affiliated interests or outside management companies seek more to manage the arena.

The council may have to consider implementing higher ticket surcharges for events at the arena, parking fees at the arena or a special tax district, Sherwood said.

The alternative, he said, is losing the Coyotes and the revenue the team brings to the city. The problem is that city officials are uncertain what the possible trade-off might be.

From February

It’s possible to reach a new agreement, but any deal would have to have some provisions of an arena-management arrangement, said LeBlanc, a resident of Thunder Bay, Ontario, which is about 350 miles northeast of Minneapolis.

“The city would like to see some more revenue streams at their disposal, and I think there’s ways to make that happen. Our main thing, obviously, is we’ve got to keep the integrity of the hockey side of the operation.â€

His group is willing to discuss forgoing some revenue streams, such as ticket surcharges on non-hockey events at the 17,125-seat arena, he said.

 

[Gump Hasek]

This is all set up for a nice and clean exit from Arizona by the NHL, which was likely their plan for quite some time. The league stated that they will no longer own the team this coming season. Then they select a last minute buyer that (per the narrative in this thread) will request 14/15 million dollars from a city that is probably too strapped to offer 6 million. The city publicly says we cannot afford this... and there is the NHL's out.

PS: Would like to state that I have very much enjoyed CasualFan's take on this matter since day one; that specific poster alone makes this forum an intriguing and quite informative read.

 

[CasualFan]

the kind of selfishness that drives a person to think keeping their favorite hockey team is more important than the emergency services in a city the size of glendale is baffling to me

Everyone is free to be as selfish as they want to be. The baffling part, to me, are the awkward attempts and outright misrepresentations used to promote it as economically sound.

 

[Wingsfan2965*]

What pressure can Gary put on Glendale?

Never mind your structural GF deficit and pending bond rating downgrade - Pay us an outrageous operational subsidy thats probably illegal AND give us all arena/parking revenues or we will take our blackhole money hemorraging franchise elsewhere?

The NHL has zero leverage in this matter. The league has essentially nothing of net value to offer a municipality in Glendales financial position.

Well if the "Summary" that was made on the last page was accurate, he basically said "The fate of the Coyotes is in your hands".

And honestly, it more or less sounds like he knows it's going to fail, but he's basically put Glendale's hand on the plug and told them to pull it.

 

[Llama19]

unfortunately, the one time the City has undertaken due diligence during this whole saga by inviting arena management proposals (ones with real, presumably professionally calculated, numbers, not hocking or pollack numbers) and then engaging those submissions fairly establishes certain time frames that would make delaying and playing around with bettman a tad difficult, even though he would deserve it. just desserts. a karmic cupcake. its icing would be the resulting crunch timing that might additionally oblige the nhl to reluctantly accept less from pkp than it would have otherwise extortionally envisioned.

These 'karmic' cupcakes should do well at the next meeting between the NHL, CoG, and anyone else involved...

J'ai un 2-7 (dépareillé), dois-je plier et prendre une bière?

 

[Killion]

the kind of selfishness that drives a person to think keeping their favorite hockey team is more important than the emergency services in a city the size of glendale is baffling to me

That the COG has found themselves in such a position at all, that clearly the NHL's leading suitor doesnt "get it", that $6M is it, thats all theyve got, that Bettman callously comes forward at the absolute 11th hour... well, a new low of cynicism for me, pretty clear what he's up to. Whats not clear is how this Mayor & the Council will react, respond, for when it comes to the political classes, just abandon hope altogether. That way you'll never be shocked, surprised. For surely if they do accede to whatever outrageously creative financing schemes Sherwood and the boys from Renaissance might be contemplating they'll deserve the fate that awaits just down the line. At this stage in the game however, I have serious doubts, suspicions as to whether or not their even capable of closing a sale at all, and further, that Bettman is more than aware of it, mere puppets, props in a power play about to be staged.

 

[viper0220]

What pressure can Gary put on Glendale?

Never mind your structural GF deficit and pending bond rating downgrade - Pay us an outrageous operational subsidy thats probably illegal AND give us all arena/parking revenues or we will take our blackhole money hemorraging franchise elsewhere?

The NHL has zero leverage in this matter. The league has essentially nothing of net value to offer a municipality in Glendales financial position.

With Gary Bettman at the Helm, the NHL and Bettman can put a lot of pressure on Glendale. Never ever under estimate Bettman.

 

[mesamonster]

So what has GB promised Gosbee/Leblanc for their part in this charade?

 

[metalfoot]

PS: Would like to state that I have very much enjoyed CasualFan's take on this matter since day one; that specific poster alone makes this forum an intriguing and quite informative read.

CF, TL, Killion, Fugu... there are a lot of great posters here. Love this examination of the foibles of big business. Wish it didn't have to end... but maybe it won't?

 

[Wingsfan2965*]

So is the general opinion here that this is basically the league telling Glendale to pull the plug?

 

[wpgallday1960]

So is the general opinion here that this is basically the league telling Glendale to pull the plug?

I think the league is going to FORCE Glendale to pull the plug.

 

[GuelphStormer]

With Gary Bettman at the Helm, the NHL and Bettman can put a lot of pressure on Glendale. Never ever under estimate Bettman.

"Look into my eyes, look into my eyes, the eyes, the eyes, not around the eyes, don't look around my eyes, look into my eyes, you're under. You love hockey. You need hockey. Hockey is your life. Glendale is not complete without hockey. You will open up your wallet and find another $25,000,000 for me. And you will be glad you did. Three, two, one... You're back in the room."

 

[Donwood]

With Gary Bettman at the Helm, the NHL and Bettman can put a lot of pressure on Glendale. Never ever under estimate Bettman.

Bettman has lied and cheated Glendale and the new council knows it, even Gary can't fool the fools anymore, Bettman knows this won't fly and that's why Quebec is ready.

 

[metalfoot]

So is the general opinion here that this is basically the league telling Glendale to pull the plug?

It's all about the optics now, and if Glendale pulls the plug the NHL can 'truthfully' say they don't abandon cities and only leave when they have to.

 

[Llama19]

So is the general opinion here that this is basically the league telling Glendale to pull the plug?

I think the league is going to FORCE Glendale to pull the plug.

But this thread has been a 'profit' machine...

Seriously, there has never been much, if any, real revenue for the CoG.

J'ai un 2-7 (dépareillé), dois-je plier et prendre une bière?

 

[Killion]

So what has GB promised Gosbee/Leblanc for their part in this charade?

Well thats the confusing part of it really if indeed Le Blanc in particulars been playing a part, assigned a role, but not in a traditional sense. He's obviously an opportunist, the NHL appearing to manipulate him to their own ends, rather like the layers of an onion really. What I dont "get" is why George Gosbee would go along with it. Youd think he'd see through Le Blanc, understand Glendales precarious position. He's a beyond wealthy individual, seems to have a sterling reputation, no way no how does he operate in such a fashion. Just no idea why he'd align himself with Le Blanc, even less of a clue why with Jones, and dont know much about this 4th guy Dey so cant really comment on him. I dont know mesa. There are innumerable examples of successful, wealthy individuals who seemingly lose their minds when getting involved in pro sports at the ownership level, so perhaps thats a factor. He's an Albertan through & through, so youd think if he did want to own an NHL club, in whole or in part, he'd be talking to Calgary, Katz up in Edmonton, both of whom Im sure would welcome his cash. It just doesnt add up.

 

[JimAnchower]

Well if the "Summary" that was made on the last page was accurate, he basically said "The fate of the Coyotes is in your hands".

And honestly, it more or less sounds like he knows it's going to fail, but he's basically put Glendale's hand on the plug and told them to pull it.

The problem for the NHL is going to get people to believe their version of events. Sure, there may be some people who believe that Gosbee was going to be the savior, but how is he much different than any of the others who couldn't close the deal? The NHL certainly is trying to pin the blame on Glendale, but I think most people will see through it.

 

[Wingsfan2965*]

The problem for the NHL is going to get people to believe their version of events. Sure, there may be some people who believe that Gosbee was going to be the savior, but how is he much different than any of the others who couldn't close the deal? The NHL certainly is trying to pin the blame on Glendale, but I think most people will see through it.

The smart people will see through it.

The problem is the smart people are vastly outnumbered.

 

[aqib]

They have to because the league owns the team. All unreimbursed losses for the Yotes are absorbed by the league and therefore each team has to take an even share of the losses.

Yes but the plan has been to get the losses back once the team is sold. I was responding to the guy who thought everyone else should chip in to keep the team there.