Phoenix LXXVIII: Know When To Hold 'Em, Know When To Fold 'Em

Major4Boarding · May 19, 2013

A parody of the great Kenny Rogers classic - "The Gambler"

On a warm summer's evenin' on a plane bound for Glendale,
I met up with The Gary; we were both too tired to sleep.
So we took turns a starin' out the window at the darkness
'Til boredom overtook us, and he began to speak.

He said, "Son, I've made my life... out of franchise valuations,
And knowin' what their values were by the way they held their price.
So if you don't mind my sayin', I can see you're out of patience.
For a ownership stake, I'll give you some advice."

So I handed him my wallet and he plucked out my last dollar.
Then he pulled out a document and asked if I'm alright.
And the plane got deathly quiet, and my face lost all expression.
Said, "If you're gonna play the game, boy, ya gotta learn to play it right.

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin' at Glendale's table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.

Now Ev'ry Commissioner knows that the secret to survivin'
Is knowin' what not to say, and knowing when to speak.
'Cause ev'ry deal's a winner and ev'ry deal's a loser,
And the best that you can hope for it to close in a week."

So when he'd finished speakin', he turned back towards the window,
Crumpled up that document and faded off to sleep.
And somewhere in the desert The Gary, he broke even.
But in his final words I found advice that I could keep.

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin' at Glendale's table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.

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Previous Thread: Phoenix LXXVII: Tired of Waiting For You

kdb209 · May 19, 2013

No Fun Shogun · May 19, 2013

heh.... perfect timing.... I post about how I'm burned out by this topic after a few years of it and a new one gets created mere minutes later. :laugh:

enarwpg · May 19, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
At this point, i would not be surprised the Coyotes stay in Glendale for at least 1 more year.

Click to expand...

The NHL loses another 30 million and gains more humiliating headlines, not likely

Yah, like the NHL would just love to see the following

Killion · May 19, 2013

No Fun Shogun said:
I post about how I'm burned out by this...

yep. after 4yrs of staring, like Welders Burn, or...

enarwpg · May 19, 2013

Originally Posted by RAgIn

I think it's safe to say Killion, that nothing that has ever come out of this has made any logical sense. It wouldn't surprise me if the NHL owned the team for another year (on their own dime), or even make it dormant for a whole year with the hope of resurrecting the franchise the year after, thus resulting in no loses. But hey, who knows really... Keeps them threads moving along. Thx NHL.

Hmmmm, there's a whole whack of Coyote players that would want to be paid, unless they raffled off all personnel before the start of next season. And then what would be the point of holding on to a 'name' then resurrecting the franchise and selling that it with no players. :shakehead

I think that's what is referred to as an expansion team !

Brodie · May 19, 2013

No Fun Shogun said:
heh.... perfect timing.... I post about how I'm burned out by this topic after a few years of it and a new one gets created mere minutes later.

I burned out before the Thrashers even came on the scene. It's amazing how long this has been going on. I read a post on here the other day that I'd made about Conan O'Brien's first Tonight Show episode and thought "god, that was so long ago"... that was AFTER the Coyotes situation started.

King_Stannis · May 19, 2013

It's amazing how some folks are thinking that a franchise can "go dormant" for a season. Literally every employee from players to marketers to the accountants would be out of a job, which means you would need to start entirely over. As enarwpg says, an expansion team. So why would you do that in a market that is as fan challenged as it is. Great business plan, remove a team that people barely know is there and a year later try to sell it to them again from square one. And it's also not like there's any implications for any other teams in the league.

Seriously, can we stop this nonsense talk about a one year siesta? It's either a local sale soon or Quebec City.

Llama19 · May 19, 2013

enarwpg said:
Hmmmm, there's a whole whack of Coyote players that would want to be paid, unless they raffled off all personnel before the start of next season. And then what would be the point of holding on to a 'name' then resurrecting the franchise and selling that it with no players.

I think that's what is referred to as an expansion team !

The 'expansion' of this sage without an owner, is worst than having the CoG hold an RFP 'raffle!'

I've got a 2-7 (offsuit), should I fold?

No Fun Shogun · May 19, 2013

Brodie said:
I burned out before the Thrashers even came on the scene. It's amazing how long this has been going on. I read a post on here the other day that I'd made about Conan O'Brien's first Tonight Show episode and thought "god, that was so long ago"... that was AFTER the Coyotes situation started.

Yup. I'm honestly at the point where I don't care what happens, I just want it to end. I will certainly feel bad for Yotes fans if the team moves or for fans in Quebec City or elsewhere if the team stays or goes somewhere else instead and they're still left teamless, but my patience has long since worn out.

Wheathead · May 20, 2013

No Fun Shogun said:
Yup. I'm honestly at the point where I don't care what happens, I just want it to end. I will certainly feel bad for Yotes fans if the team moves or for fans in Quebec City or elsewhere if the team stays or goes somewhere else instead and they're still left teamless, but my patience has long since worn out.

I'm tired of the NHL looking like a joke. How many leagues have owned one of their member franchises for 4 years? I don't even think the MLB owned the Expos for that long...

There's a reason why this team hasn't sold. Either the NHL ignores the issue, or just doesn't see it.

Maybe what the NHL needs is for someone to buy the team in Phoenix, run it into the ground and move it out on that accord. Like Loria in Montreal with the Expos.

Stanley Cup · May 20, 2013

Scoobs said:
I'm tired of the NHL looking like a joke. How many leagues have owned one of their member franchises for 4 years? I don't even think the MLB owned the Expos for that long...

There's a reason why this team hasn't sold. Either the NHL ignores the issue, or just doesn't see it.

Maybe what the NHL needs is for someone to buy the team in Phoenix, run it into the ground and move it out on that accord. Like Loria in Montreal with the Expos.

To me it still looks better than watching its' teams move constantly. Relocation does not necessarily equal to growth. It's easier to follow a stable league IMHO.

No Fun Shogun · May 20, 2013

True, but I don't think that constantly pumping money into a franchise while continually failing to find a buyer to keep the team local is a strong indicator of a stable league.

I still stand by my initial assertion that the NHL had a grand plan where they hoped to use the Yotes and Glendale as the blue print of a municipality taking over expenses for a brief time for a troubled franchise while an ownership search went underway and then use that elsewhere should it arise to prevent future relocations. But then came Goldwater and a million other snafus that delayed the process far beyond what they were expecting.

I think a lot of the NHL's mistakes can be attributed to them thinking along those lines initially and simultaneously wanting to recoup their sunk costs.

sipowicz · May 20, 2013

No Fun Shogun said:
I think a lot of the NHL's mistakes can be attributed to them thinking along those lines initially and simultaneously wanting to recoup their sunk costs.

Makes perfect sense to a gambling addict! :sarcasm:

JimAnchower · May 20, 2013

No Fun Shogun said:
I still stand by my initial assertion that the NHL had a grand plan where they hoped to use the Yotes and Glendale as the blue print of a municipality taking over expenses for a brief time for a troubled franchise while an ownership search went underway and then use that elsewhere should it arise to prevent future relocations. But then came Goldwater and a million other snafus that delayed the process far beyond what they were expecting.

It is the next logical step in the process. Teams have gotten cities to build them huge arenas so they can profit from them. They have done this under the guise of helping the local economy and stating how many jobs are going to be helped because of the arena, even if that rarely happens. The next step would only seem to be to get the municipalities to subsidize the team directly.

GF · May 20, 2013

JimAnchower said:
It is the next logical step in the process. Teams have gotten cities to build them huge arenas so they can profit from them. They have done this under the guise of helping the local economy and stating how many jobs are going to be helped because of the arena, even if that rarely happens. The next step would only seem to be to get the municipalities to subsidize the team directly.

Isn't it already the case in Columbus? Aren't the BlueJackets already largely subsidized by the city and/or state? :dunno:

mesamonster · May 20, 2013

M4B, That Thread title and lyrics are priceless! I can see GB and BD sitting in NYC with a plan to relocate,contract or stay put, but somehow cant find the wherewithal to pull the trigger? Anything that has to do with Glendale should be considered DOA! Why do I also want to believe that he will opt for contraction rather than force the issue on QC before they are ready? Sure, the NHLPA will not be happy but in the end these players will all find homes and a few (Doan) may opt for retirement. The league will receive its share of criticism, but that would be far easier to deal with than keeping a team in the desert? Contraction would allow the realignment plans to move forward with a few tinkers here or there. The league could assuage the PA by assuring them that some portion of the Expansion fee could be used to remedy players or management who were hurt by the contraction. Somewhere down the road, QC could get up and running in their own new building and PHX would be remembered as an outpost where Gary held his cards too long before finally folding them!

Slashers98 · May 20, 2013

mesamonster said:
M4B, That Thread title and lyrics are priceless! I can see GB and BD sitting in NYC with a plan to relocate,contract or stay put, but somehow cant find the wherewithal to pull the trigger? Anything that has to do with Glendale should be considered DOA! Why do I also want to believe that he will opt for contraction rather than force the issue on QC before they are ready? Sure, the NHLPA will not be happy but in the end these players will all find homes and a few (Doan) may opt for retirement. The league will receive its share of criticism, but that would be far easier to deal with than keeping a team in the desert? Contraction would allow the realignment plans to move forward with a few tinkers here or there. The league could assuage the PA by assuring them that some portion of the Expansion fee could be used to remedy players or management who were hurt by the contraction. Somewhere down the road, QC could get up and running in their own new building and PHX would be remembered as an outpost where Gary held his cards too long before finally folding them!

Forget about contraction, it is not going to happen.

Major4Boarding · May 20, 2013

mesamonster said:
M4B, That Thread title and lyrics are priceless! I can see GB and BD sitting in NYC with a plan to relocate,contract or stay put, but somehow cant find the wherewithal to pull the trigger? Anything that has to do with Glendale should be considered DOA! Why do I also want to believe that he will opt for contraction rather than force the issue on QC before they are ready? Sure, the NHLPA will not be happy but in the end these players will all find homes and a few (Doan) may opt for retirement. The league will receive its share of criticism, but that would be far easier to deal with than keeping a team in the desert? Contraction would allow the realignment plans to move forward with a few tinkers here or there. The league could assuage the PA by assuring them that some portion of the Expansion fee could be used to remedy players or management who were hurt by the contraction. Somewhere down the road, QC could get up and running in their own new building and PHX would be remembered as an outpost where Gary held his cards too long before finally folding them!

I appreciate the compliments, however the thread title (and parody) isn't to suggest contraction. Contraction is the very last option. Despite all the other seemingly apparent headaches the League could or would endure, one must also not lose focus on the Prima Meta... revenue generation. Either in Glendale or elsewhere.

A dormant franchise generates zero revenue. Sure we can ponder losses elsewhere other than Glendale but still...

It's very quiet right now. I'm getting the sense that this situation goes another year. That's just me.

mesamonster · May 20, 2013

Slashers98 said:
Forget about contraction, it is not going to happen.

Probably not, but given what has transpired these last four years I dont count anything out! GB`s procrastination to date is so befuddling it makes me wonder why he has not pulled the relo trigger by now?

mesamonster · May 20, 2013

Major4Boarding said:
I appreciate the compliments, however the thread title (and parody) isn't to suggest contraction. Contraction is the very last option. Despite all the other seemingly apparent headaches the League could or would endure, one must also not lose focus on the Prima Meta... revenue generation. Either in Glendale or elsewhere.

A dormant franchise generates zero revenue. Sure we can ponder losses elsewhere other than Glendale but still...

It's very quiet right now. I'm getting the sense that this situation goes another year. That's just me.

A dormant franchise not generating revenue is better than a franchise that is consistently losing the league revenue?

Whileee · May 20, 2013

Major4Boarding said:
It's very quiet right now. I'm getting the sense that this situation goes another year. That's just me.

Five years under League ownership and management? It really would be a farce. They've been slowly strangling the hockey side of things through restricted budgets and uncertainty. The team weathered it admirably for a time, but how long can you expect Maloney and Tippett to keep things together with duct tape? If a long-term ownership situation isn't in place for this off-season, it seems likely that the competitiveness of the team will be damaged substantially, perhaps for a considerable time into the future.

mesamonster · May 20, 2013

Imagine what another year in Glendale would look like? No Tippett, No Maloney and an AHL roster! This would be complete armageddon for the league! The jokes about the moribund franchise would be endless! The players would be playing to 2,000 fans, all of whom were paid to attend the debacle! The charade that GB has perpetrated upon the fans and the taxpayers of Glendale would at last be exposed! Honestly, these clowns that Bettman has paraded in front of all of us is a complete joke, for anyone to not see this is sad! I realize contraction is the third likeliest option, however, at this late date it is beginning to feel more plausible than ever. What are the real downsides to the league if they were to do this with the understanding that the league would do everything in their power to be sure that the players and administrators who may be hurt would be compensated for their financial losses!

rt · May 20, 2013

Whileee said:
Five years under League ownership and management? It really would be a farce. They've been slowly strangling the hockey side of things through restricted budgets and uncertainty. The team weathered it admirably for a time, but how long can you expect Maloney and Tippett to keep things together with duct tape? If a long-term ownership situation isn't in place for this off-season, it seems likely that the competitiveness of the team will be damaged substantially, perhaps for a considerable time into the future.

It has also completely negated an increase in fan support that the on ice success of the last few years would typically have generated. If you lose Maloney and Tippett, you will lose some of even the most loyal STHs. Casual fans won't know the difference, but some of those rock solid always there STHs that they've taken for granted in all of this might just decide to sit next season out. Everyone is completely worn out, and I expect a great many are sitting right on the border of laststrawsville.

Whileee · May 20, 2013

rt said:
It has also completely negated an increase in fan support that the on ice success of the last few years would typically have generated. If you lose Maloney and Tippett, you will lose some of even the most loyal STHs. Casual fans won't know the difference, but some of those rock solid always there STHs that they've taken for granted in all of this might just decide to sit next season out. Everyone is completely worn out, and I expect a great many are sitting right on the border of laststrawsville.

Hard to blame them. The NHL's stewardship over the past 4 years has been like a boa constrictor, gradually squeezing the life out of the team and the fans, despite the efforts of management and players. Extending the situation for another year seems like a recipe for lasting damage to the hockey team.

Phoenix LXXVIII: Know When To Hold 'Em, Know When To Fold 'Em

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