Phoenix LXXVIII: Know When To Hold 'Em, Know When To Fold 'Em

[Gotaf7]

I would like to see 1 more year in Glendale under league ownership, just to see if it would cost the Count his job.

 

[Whileee]

I would like to see 1 more year in Glendale under league ownership, just to see if it would cost the Count his job.

If he was really serious about the long-term future of the Coyotes, he should have had the courage of his convictions and given the Coyotes 3 or 4 #1 draft picks.

 

[Slashers98]

The NHL and their figurehead, Gary Bettman, look more and more like fools as the days go by and yet, they don't seem to care about the Coyotes fans... No news is good news right?

 

[Major4Boarding]

A dormant franchise not generating revenue is better than a franchise that is consistently losing the league revenue?

My apologies Mesa... maybe my statement didn't translate well. Although folding this franchise (into dormancy) is an option (least likely option IMO), I get the sense the League would rather endure losses in the short term (one year) rather than hit the nuke button.

However

Imagine what another year in Glendale would look like? No Tippett, No Maloney and an AHL roster! This would be complete armageddon for the league!

It wouldn't be complete armageddon for the League. I think anyone can safely speculate that if they (League) kicks this can down the road one more year, not retaining Tippett and Maloney (hell, I'll throw Smith in there too as another, yet weaker, barometer) that this would be a lame duck season forthcoming. One where the League officially-officially tears off the veil from "We've exhausted all efforts" and relocation is unequivocally on the table.

Has not the League already been buffered from serious losses via the previous 2 Glendale subsidies? If they decide to give it one more year, then this season would be the one where they digest the full brunt of those losses. Yet, can be recouped via successful sale and relocation. Not perfect, and I get what you're saying, but sometimes playing out the string or weathering the storm with eyes on the greater prize comes to mind.

Ultimately, this is where we're at:

Sell them to Team Gosbee. Out clause (relocation included). Buying time to either turn it around or other landing destinations present themselves (Seattle or _______ ) or flip it to PKP/QC.

League retains the franchise for the very short term. Again, buying more time for other ownership groups/potential landing destinations or buying time for PKP to play one less year in the Colisee (my speculation).

Pull the plug now and sell to PKP/QC with immediate relocation.

Send the franchise into dormancy.

 

[Wheathead]

The NHL and their figurehead, Gary Bettman, look more and more like fools as the days go by and yet, they don't seem to care about the Coyotes fans... No news is good news right?

I don't quite get it either. Very little news out of New York, nothing of substance out of Glendale... I guess you could imagine that there would be news behind the scenes every day that isn't getting reported.

Something has to break soon though, good or bad for the NHL in Glendale. May 31st is approaching quickly. If Glendale is paying another individual $6M to manage the Job, there will be no money left for the NHL.

 

[LeafShark]

You don't build long term viability and sustainability with a last minute deal...

 

[GF]

The NHL and their figurehead, Gary Bettman, look more and more like fools as the days go by and yet, they don't seem to care about the Coyotes fans... No news is good news right?

I think the backdoor politics are probably really strong right now. IMHO, it's only politics that are keeping the team in Glendale. It's definately not business related.

Everyone realizes this is a huge mess, that the so-called tire kickers are just an endless parody of folks trying to buy the team just to flip it to Toronto (or anywhere else that would be willing to pay the hefty price required).

The only reason right now that would be logical in any way that could explain why the relocation hasn't been announced, is that the Desmarais family (Power Corp) along with Bell and the CH are pulling every strings they've got to stop PKP from acquiring the team. Nothing else, to me at this point, could explain why this joke doesn't end.

 

[Gustave]

I think the backdoor politics are probably really strong right now. IMHO, it's only politics that are keeping the team in Glendale. It's definately not business related.

Everyone realizes this is a huge mess, that the so-called tire kickers are just an endless parody of folks trying to buy the team just to flip it to Toronto (or anywhere else that would be willing to pay the hefty price required).

The only reason right now that would be logical in any way that could explain why the relocation hasn't been announced, is that the Desmarais family (Power Corp) along with Bell and the CH are pulling every strings they've got to stop PKP from acquiring the team. Nothing else, to me at this point, could explain why this joke doesn't end.

Of course it's Montreal's fault. It's so obvious that I didn't realize it.

Give us some proof of this grand conspiracy. I'm baffled that all 28 other owners which are fronting the bills for the Yotes are just sitting back while evil Molson, Power Corp and Bell are playing them to keep a team away.

 

[Slashers98]

I think the backdoor politics are probably really strong right now. IMHO, it's only politics that are keeping the team in Glendale. It's definately not business related.

Everyone realizes this is a huge mess, that the so-called tire kickers are just an endless parody of folks trying to buy the team just to flip it to Toronto (or anywhere else that would be willing to pay the hefty price required).

The only reason right now that would be logical in any way that could explain why the relocation hasn't been announced, is that the Desmarais family (Power Corp) along with Bell and the CH are pulling every strings they've got to stop PKP from acquiring the team. Nothing else, to me at this point, could explain why this joke doesn't end.

Powercorp doesn't have enough power in the NHL to block a relocation to Quebec City. The problem is Bettman's ego who's bigger than the health of the league right now.

 

[GF]

Of course it's Montreal's fault. It's so obvious that I didn't realize it.

Give us some proof of this grand conspiracy. I'm baffled that all 28 other owners which are fronting the bills for the Yotes are just sitting back while evil Molson, Power Corp and Bell are playing them to keep a team away.

It wouldn't be the first time. And i can't imagine how thrilled power corp and bell are at splitting their pie.

If I had proof of this, I would blackmail power corp and bell for millions, not share it on a public forum.

 

[Nordskull]

Of course it's Montreal's fault. It's so obvious that I didn't realize it.

Give us some proof of this grand conspiracy. I'm baffled that all 28 other owners which are fronting the bills for the Yotes are just sitting back while evil Molson, Power Corp and Bell are playing them to keep a team away.

I would love to watch Renaud Lavoie testify on this.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Perhaps the rest of this discussion would be better suited in the QC thread, no?

 

[Nordskull]

Perhaps the rest of this discussion would be better suited in the QC thread, no?

Sorry. You're right. Anyway, no interest in my part.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Of course it's Montreal's fault. It's so obvious that I didn't realize it.

Give us some proof of this grand conspiracy. I'm baffled that all 28 other owners which are fronting the bills for the Yotes are just sitting back while evil Molson, Power Corp and Bell are playing them to keep a team away.

MTL isn't stupid enough to make the same mistake twice. Blocking a relocation to Qc would mean the end of their beer (Molson) in the city, just like it did in 1978-79 whem they did oppose. If Bell.is involved they would also suffer a lot. I would understand Bell and Power Corp not wanting PKP to get a team, but the Habs would greatly benefit from the rivalry, they won't oppose

 

[Slashers98]

So where is George Gosbee? He has yet to talk about the ownership of the Coyotes in any media. Is he in fact interested or is he just a pure fabrication like The Balkan was in Atlanta?

 

[GF]

Right this belongs in the QC thread.

I am just trying to find any logic in this utter mess.

By the way, right now, the NHL has no lease with Jobing for 2013-14. The RFP get open in 10 days, the CoG not interested, it seems, to renew the AMUL. This is possibly the worst possible scenario for Bettman and still, this freight train is going full steam ahead. Incredible. Illogical. Kudos to Gary and Bill for managing this situation.

 

[Killion]

Imagine what another year in Glendale would look like?

Exactly like the last 4 seasons mesa. Phoenix'll lose Smith (as they lost Bryz) and with Tippetts or any number of dozens of other Coaches available who employ System Defence with Left Wing Locks' & Neutral Zone Traps, good to go. Maloney Im certain would sign an extension, his loyalty's to the league, a Good Soldier.

The NHL and their figurehead, Gary Bettman, look more and more like fools as the days go by and yet, they don't seem to care about the Coyotes fans...

... not just the fans, what they've wrought & attempted to perpetrate themselves upon Glendale enabling & propping others to try the same has been nothing short of unconscionable. Fools generally act or react from positions of ignorance, a lack of knowledge, often out of spite, vindiction or whatever. The NHL on the other hand, you cant really give them a bye that way, that they dont know what their doing. Thats the problem. They do know, and could have rectified matters long ago in facilitating a local sale or moving the team before involving themselves in extortion & blackmail on a scale that has been and continues to be breath taking.

Has not the League already been buffered from serious losses via the previous 2 Glendale subsidies? If they decide to give it one more year, then this season would be the one where they digest the full brunt of those losses. Yet, can be recouped via successful sale and relocation. Not perfect, and I get what you're saying, but sometimes playing out the string or weathering the storm with eyes on the greater prize comes to mind.

Yes they have been (buffered) and I suspect to far greater levels than we realize. So sure, hanging in for another year, I could see them doing that. What complicates matters however is the RFP, the AMC & AMF's, what arrangements can be made with an incoming X, Y or Z Manager. Im sure accommodations can be made, but its going to cost the NHL even more, as with even a league friendly Global-Spectrum or AEG, they'll be expected to pay for all game day expenses, office space in the building etc.

...i can't imagine how thrilled power corp and bell are at splitting their pie.

Tangentially, as to why the Coyotes are still sitting where they are on May 20th & not already packing for QC, to dismiss the theory that Desmarais might be exerting influence & pressure is to ignore entirely the long standing enmities between the two families (Peladeaus), Bell, Montreal & Quebec. Its entirely possible, completely plausible, and no, you'll never find the smoking gun, but Ive heard various long standing, well connected & influential Quebecers opine on this matter and theyve all speculated the same. So if it walks like a Duck, talks like a Duck.... Seattle was never even remotely feasible for 2013/14, and so by way of explaining why the NHL wouldnt be all over PKP, their new best friend; like a fat boy on the last M&M in the pack, well, the Desmarais/Bell/Habz connection is not something Id just outright dismiss, a Conspiracy Theory for Team Tinfoil, QC & PKP recu comme un chien dans un jeu de quilles (about as welcome as a dog in a bowling alley)...

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Well, to be fair, it makes no sense for the Habs to oppose a move to Quebec City. It DOES make sense for Desmarais/Bell, but not for the Habs. If they indeed do oppose a move, Molson should have a long talk with his father about what happened the first time they tried to block Quebec City.

 

[GordonGraham]

Both Molson brothers are on the record numerous time in the past 6-12 months about wanting the team back in quebec city wanting bring back the rivalry .....

Still May 20 with no owner, no lease, no coach , no gm for the upcoming season something as to give soon

My fantasy is having AEG or someone similar getting the arena management deal in glendale and having them charge the NHL 5-10M to play in their building for next season

 

[Killion]

Well, to be fair, it makes no sense for the Habs to oppose a move to Quebec City. It DOES make sense for Desmarais/Bell, but not for the Habs. If they indeed do oppose a move, Molson should have a long talk with his father about what happened the first time they tried to block Quebec City.

Well no, you get to into brewery issues as well as politics, PKP with the PQ, newspaper & editorial influences in shaping opinion, Montreal connections to the Liberals, just on & on. They may well welcome a team in QC but only on their terms & through Expansion, more money and all of it arriving unencumbered. So there could be some obstruction, blowback, whereby between Bell with the Habs & now Leafs, the aforementioned, theyve let it be known to Bettman that sure, welcome a team, but not on relo, figure something else for that team, and that would explain why the trigger hasnt yet been pulled on the Coyotes. Im convinced the NHL's going to expand by 2 teams, one in the East & one in the West at some point over the next 5yrs; QC first in line in the east. This is all pure speculation on my part, but in trying to figure out the hold-up here, why the NHL's going to the nth degree's with what to date & right now appears to be another Moon Shot, makes some sense.... least ways to me it does. Whether or not the Molson brothers statements are completely honest, in that they'd love to have the rivalry back which Im sure is true, it may be the actual delivery, the terms in how thats achieved, realized that may be the hangup. Not lying, just not being completely forthcoming, ergo, Bettman could be in a bind with the Coyotes.

 

[Slashers98]

Well no, you get to into brewery issues as well as politics, PKP with the PQ, newspaper & editorial influences in shaping opinion, Montreal connections to the Liberals, just on & on. They may well welcome a team in QC but only on their terms & through Expansion, more money and all of it arriving unencumbered. So there could be some obstruction, blowback, whereby between Bell with the Habs & now Leafs, the aforementioned, theyve let it be known to Bettman that sure, welcome a team, but not on relo, figure something else for that team, and that would explain why the trigger hasnt yet been pulled on the Coyotes. Im convinced the NHL's going to expand by 2 teams, one in the East & one in the West at some point over the next 5yrs; QC first in line in the east. This is all pure speculation on my part, but in trying to figure out the hold-up here, why the NHL's going to the nth degree's with what to date & right now appears to be another Moon Shot, makes some sense.... least ways to me it does. Whether or not the Molson brothers statements are completely honest, in that they'd love to have the rivalry back which Im sure is true, it may be the actual delivery, the terms in how thats achieved, realized that may be the hangup. Not lying, just not being completely forthcoming, ergo, Bettman could be in a bind with the Coyotes.

Common Killion, you know there won't be any expansion until the Coyotes' situation is resolved, which means never!

 

[GF]

It wouldn't be smart for them to go on record saying no way they want the Nordiques back. But it wouldn't but smart either to say they want them back and not try to complicate things a bit.

Does people think Bell tried to win the RFP for managing the new Colisee in order to bring the Nords back? Count me among those that think that Bell wanted to manage the Colisee in order to make sure that the Nords would never be back.

Now, in my neck of the woods, some people speculate that Desmarais is not pleased with Quebecor getting the Nordiques. Well that's just obvious. No one likes it when their direct competitor gets a shot at your business. What they are doing behind the curtain (if they are doing anything) nobody will know, probably ever. I highly doubt they're not doing anything they can to help get this train off the rails.

On the other hand, the NHL is FUBAR in Glendale. Gary will need to do something real quick. Relocation window is gonna shut down in 10 days give or take. After that, they're stuck trying to get a deal with the new Jobing manager. I doubt any manager will simply give the rent away. So they'll have to pay to play. All that plus the GM, coach and free agents, the proverbial bird is about to hit the propeller.

 

[Llama19]

Right this belongs in the QC thread.

I am just trying to find any logic in this utter mess.

By the way, right now, the NHL has no lease with Jobing for 2013-14. The RFP get open in 10 days, the CoG not interested, it seems, to renew the AMUL. This is possibly the worst possible scenario for Bettman and still, this freight train is going full steam ahead. Incredible. Illogical. Kudos to Gary and Bill for managing this situation.

Gary must be going full throttle in getting the limits on this 'freight train' hoping to go back to the future!

I've got a 2-7 (offsuit), should I fold?

 

[GuelphStormer]

Both Molson brothers are on the record numerous time in the past 6-12 months about wanting the team back in quebec city wanting bring back the rivalry .....

Still May 20 with no owner, no lease, no coach , no gm for the upcoming season something as to give soon

My fantasy is having AEG or someone similar getting the arena management deal in glendale and having them charge the NHL 5-10M to play in their building for next season

that would be funny, wouldnt it?

 

[thom]

What people don'-t know about qUEBEC City is that when Maurice Aubut bought an exapansion team in late 1970'-s Molson theatened to block team.So two things happened Carling Okfree threatened Molsons with a beer boycot in Quebec.Second Maurice Aubut set up a new Hockey tv company which threatened cbc hnic.The new station was part of ctv and lasted five seasons.It showed games in Friday and Sunday involving american teams.That'-s how serious the business world of hockey is i Quebec.