Phoenix LXXVI: Renaissance Men

[Killion]

It would sure be interesting to see the mess that would result if the league sent the Coyotes to a city with a terrible ice hockey arena and no declared or even rumored NHL owner with just a couple of weeks to get ready for the draft and a couple of months to get ready for next season.

Ya thats one Conspiracy Theory thats been wholly Debunked. Just not logistically, physically possible, let alone even remotely practical nor plausible at this stage in the game. You'd lose as much if not more money trying to pull that off next month then playing out of Key Arena than you would playing at thejob, and youd better make sure Hansens on-side with a completely favourable lease agreement or your just exchanging one headache for another. Love to see a team in Seattle, but do it properly or just dont bother at all.

 

[Slashers98]

Ya thats one Conspiracy Theory thats been wholly Debunked. Just not logistically, physically possible, let alone even remotely practical nor plausible at this stage in the game. You'd lose as much if not more money trying to pull that off next month then playing out of Key Arena than you would playing at thejob, and youd better make sure Hansens on-side with a completely favourable lease agreement or your just exchanging one headache for another. Love to see a team in Seattle, but do it properly or just dont bother at all.

Exactly, who would own the NHL team in Seattle? Certainly not Hansen...

 

[GF]

Can they even get Key arena NHL ready in such a short notice?

At this point, I don't care where they go. I just want this to be over with so I don't have to follow yet another year of "Dying Coyote, will they pull the plug?"...

 

[Killion]

Exactly, who would own the NHL team in Seattle? Certainly not Hansen...

You pretty much have to hold the Master Lease along with all the rights, from naming to parking to concessions to further development in & around the building itself in order to make money owning an NHL franchise these days. So really, this situation is similar Houston or Portland, whereby unless Alexander or Allen are on-board as partial or complete owners, its just not going to work, its not feasible. Hansens throwing around tens of millions, all-in over a billion dollars. Record prices. Just upped his offer to the Maloofs by about $60M. Pledges to pay over $120M in Relo Fee's (last time the NBA got relo fees in 08 = $30M) etc etc etc. Its going to take years, decades to make that back....

 

[Slashers98]

You pretty much have to hold the Master Lease along with all the rights, from naming to parking to concessions to further development in & around the building itself in order to make money owning an NHL franchise these days. So really, this situation is similar Houston or Portland, whereby unless Alexander or Allen are on-board as partial or complete owners, its just not going to work, its not feasible. Hansens throwing around tens of millions, all-in over a billion dollars. Record prices. Just upped his offer to the Maloofs by about $60M. Pledges to pay over $120M in Relo Fee's (last time the NBA got relo fees in 08 = $30M) etc etc etc. Its going to take years, decades to make that back....

Well said, and that's why I think Seattle ain't going to happen any time soon, even with a basketball team, as the owner of the hockey team would be a leasee in the new building and wouldn't make any money from the other revenue streams related to the arena.

 

[WildGopher]

They won't be anywhere close to finalizing a lease with the COG by May 24th. I think that they'll have their offer reviewed and vetted by the NHL by then, but not much more.

Agree. But something is likely to happen on the 24th that might add a new dynamic to this. On or shortly after the 24th, the city will start opening bids from arena management firms. Those bids will probably come with projections as to how many non-hockey events the bidding firms estimate they can bring to Glendale. I'd guess that's going to be an eye opener for some council members and citizens who've believed the arena pretty much has to be boarded up and the lights turned off if the team leaves. Not saying they wouldn't be better off with the team's 40+ dates, but when credible arena management firms who've had success filling dates in similar arenas come with their projections, I think it'll change some assumptions the city's been working under. And that would put them in a little better negotiating position vis-a-vis the NHL and potential Coyotes owners. I'm sure the COG still prefers to retain the Coyotes, but the proposals might just show they don't absolutely need to, that they have alternatives. I think it's likely the NHL will reach a tentative agreement to sell to one of these suitors; the question is will COG give them enough incentives to make it work, and I think what they see on the 24th will take some pressure off the COG to feel they have to go any higher than $6 mill with the arena management fee.

 

[Slashers98]

Agree. But something is likely to happen on the 24th that might add a new dynamic to this. On or shortly after the 24th, the city will start opening bids from arena management firms. Those bids will probably come with projections as to how many non-hockey events the bidding firms estimate they can bring to Glendale. I'd guess that's going to be an eye opener for some council members and citizens who've believed the arena pretty much has to be boarded up and the lights turned off if the team leaves. Not saying they wouldn't be better off with the team's 40+ dates, but when credible arena management firms who've had success filling dates in similar arenas come with their projections, I think it'll change some assumptions the city's been working under. And that would put them in a little better negotiating position vis-a-vis the NHL and potential Coyotes owners. I'm sure the COG still prefers to retain the Coyotes, but the proposals might just show they don't absolutely need to, that they have alternatives. I think it's likely the NHL will reach a tentative agreement to sell to one of these suitors; the question is will COG give them enough incentives to make it work, and I think what they see on the 24th will take some pressure off the COG to feel they have to go any higher than $6 mill with the arena management fee.

Exactly, and I wouldn't be surprised if a proven management firm comes with a bid that is lower than the projected $6M/year to manage Jobing.com. What would happen to the potential buyers if they see that another company will manage the arena and that they have to manage the operational expenses of the Coyotes without any kind of financial help from Glendale?

Nobody has ever mentioned anything about that...

 

[Killion]

Agree. But something is likely to happen on the 24th that might add a new dynamic to this. On or shortly after the 24th, the city will start opening bids from arena management firms. Those bids will probably come with projections as to how many non-hockey events the bidding firms estimate they can bring to Glendale.

Yes, thats very possible, probable, and my hunch is that even now, without having the benefit of the edification those bids will bring the Mayor & Council would be very very wary, opposed to anything over & above $6M even if they had it (which they dont) to give. And for sure, an "eye opener" for the city when they do read the projections contained in the bids. The NHL's excuse, if they even deign to answer if asked why their record of booking non-hockey events was so abysmal can claim they were simply caretakers, not in the business of managing & promoting arenas nor individual teams for that matter. That they were "this" close to selling the team on 3 or 4 separate occasions and didnt want to handcuff the new ownership to blacked out dates.... smooth yes?.

And yes Slashers, if the NHL cant pull this off eclipsing the need for those bids to be opened at all on or after the 24th, that teams as good as gone. No way does an owner operate the franchise out of thejob as a tenant. Just not happenin.

 

[WildGopher]

Yes, thats very possible, probable, and my hunch is that even now, without having the benefit of the edification those bids will bring the Mayor & Council would be very very wary, opposed to anything over & above $6M even if they had it (which they dont) to give. And for sure, an "eye opener" for the city when they do read the projections contained in the bids. The NHL's excuse, if they even deign to answer if asked why their record of booking non-hockey events was so abysmal can claim they were simply caretakers, not in the business of managing & promoting arenas nor individual teams for that matter. That they were "this" close to selling the team on 3 or 4 separate occasions and didnt want to handcuff the new ownership to blacked out dates.... smooth yes?.

No excuse for the NHL not to have filled more dates, with all the expertise they had at their disposal with 29 ownership groups either doing the work of filling dates directly in their buildings, or contracting with qualified firms to do it. I try to avoid the conspiracy theories myself, but could it be that a real reason the NHL wasn't aggressive filling dates with non-hockey events is that it was never in their interest to show Glendale that there were other ways to fill the building? That the idea that the Job and Westgate would essentially close without the 'Yotes was what the NHL needed the COG to believe to keep getting those huge $25 million and $320 million subsidy offers?

 

[Killion]

Can they even get Key arena NHL ready in such a short notice?

Ive' heard variously that there is an ice plant in the building and from others that there isnt, others still that there is one but that it requires serious upgrades. No idea about that, but sure, I suppose they could jury rig the joint & pull it off. Seriously messed up configuration with tarped off seating sections etc.

No excuse for the NHL not to have filled more dates, with all the expertise they had at their disposal with 29 ownership groups either doing the work of filling dates directly in their buildings, or contracting with qualified firms to do it. I try to avoid the conspiracy theories myself, but could it be that a real reason the NHL wasn't aggressive filling dates with non-hockey events is that it was never in their interest to show Glendale that there were other ways to fill the building? That the idea that the Job and Westgate would essentially close without the 'Yotes was what the NHL needed the COG to believe to keep getting those huge $25 million and $320 million subsidy offers?

Well thats just it. They did absolutely nothing to actually add to the value of the asset for a prospective owner, nor did they actually "earn" their $45M beyond the 41 home dates, exhibitions and the playoff runs'. AEG was apparently involved in some capacity, they responsible for the bookings such as they were, from Taylor Swift to The Who etc. Certainly the idea that the NHL was deliberately negligent in not aggressively marketing & promoting the building in order to highlight the importance of the franchise to the city, development & community in order to maximize subsidies is deviously, maliciously plausible.... However, I dont think thats the case here at all, I frankly think their just incompetent. Fast set-up with the registration of Arena Newco LLC, basically a shell, a conduit used to process Glendales deposits & whatever other drips & drops were secured through the concert & event bookings. Your suggestions, that with 29 other "experts" on-call, that they coulda/shoulda done a Hell of a lot more I completely agree with. To say they were remiss, negligent, incompetent, well, those words actually fall short. Id say contemptible, disgust pretty much characterizes my feelings towards the NHL throughout this sorry, pathetic chapter of their history.

 

[aqib]

I guess it does that on a certain level, however, its certainly not something Id want on my resume', be known for in that particular field unless I actually closed the deal, bought the team, made a silk purse out of a sows ear. I mean, if I ran into Matthew Hulsizer for example, and he was tryin to pitch me into sinking some money into hedge funds or whatever with Peak6, I wouldnt give him the time of day.... but I would give him an earful, and that'd be free of charge.

The difference being that you have followed this saga closely, so you're intimately familiar with everything Hulsizer related. However someone being pitched Peak6 funds a year or two from now who isn't a hockey fan may do a google search and see that the head of the firm made an aborted attempt to buy a hockey team. No they probably won't dig a lot deeper and listen to the cupcake summit nor will they read his correspondence filled with typos.

 

[Killion]

Exactly, who would own the NHL team in Seattle? Certainly not Hansen...

I guess Levin along with a partner or three, possibly some heavy hitters who's identities are unknown at this time. No idea really, but as I said earlier, if Hansens not involved at a minority level, you'd better hope & pray you can secure a sweetheart of a Lease deal because if not, you'll be either looking into having to build yet another arena, say in Bellevue or wherever, or perhaps clean out of the city & out of the state. I suppose its possible if you really wanna go full-on Conspiracy Theory that Gosbee & or Pastor have been told they can move to Seattle in 5yrs if they fail to right the ship, but thats an empty promise, no guarantee of anything whatsoever.

 

[Wheathead]

The Key Arena is crap for hockey. Ask the Seattle Thunderbirds. My friend can also vouch for that, as he attended a Thunderbirds home game a the Key and said it was, by far, the worst arena he has ever watched a hockey game in.

The arena floor isn't fit for hockey. US Airways Arena in Phoenix was a better hockey arena than the Key Arena would be.

 

[MaskedSonja]

Having read and reread the thread and all that's happening, I'm gonna go out and make a predication here on mothers day (happy Mom's to all who are mothers are the board

This is my PREDICTION, and nothing more. NHL is extend the AMUL another year and take the 6 million (or whatever). Whether that means he uses that time to try and find a buyer for the area, or whether they seriously use the next year to relocate, the Yotes will be in Glendale come April 2014: after that all bets are off.

I'm gonna say that if I call this right, I want a thread title in 2014 to be "Tinalera Called it: call now for winning lotto numbers!"



And to those who may have already called this, I'm still calling dibs on thread title

 

[Kevyn]

It would sure be interesting to see the mess that would result if the league sent the Coyotes to a city with a terrible ice hockey arena and no declared or even rumored NHL owner with just a couple of weeks to get ready for the draft and a couple of months to get ready for next season.

They could name them the Seattle Pilots!

 

[Donwood]

Having read and reread the thread and all that's happening, I'm gonna go out and make a predication here on mothers day (happy Mom's to all who are mothers are the board

This is my PREDICTION, and nothing more. NHL is extend the AMUL another year and take the 6 million (or whatever). Whether that means he uses that time to try and find a buyer for the area, or whether they seriously use the next year to relocate, the Yotes will be in Glendale come April 2014: after that all bets are off.

I'm gonna say that if I call this right, I want a thread title in 2014 to be "Tinalera Called it: call now for winning lotto numbers!"



And to those who may have already called this, I'm still calling dibs on thread title

I don't think Glendale will want the NHL to run the arena again considering the pathetic amount of non hockey events it scheduled.

If after 4 years the NHL still can't find a buyer, they never will and the other teams don't have the stomach or money for it to continue.

My prediction is sometime during May 28-31, the NHL admits defeat in Glendale and announces a sale to Quebec. With the Club president, GM and coach having contracts expire at the end of June and the Free Agency deadline in early July, it seems very unlikely this could go later them May 31

 

[MaskedSonja]

I don't think Glendale will want the NHL to run the arena again considering the pathetic amount of non hockey events it scheduled.

If after 4 years the NHL still can't find a buyer, they never will and the other teams don't have the stomach or money for it to continue.

My prediction is sometime during May 28-31, the NHL admits defeat in Glendale and announces a sale to Quebec. With the Club president, GM and coach having contracts expire at the end of June and the Free Agency deadline in early July, it seems very unlikely this could go later them May 31

In any other universe, I'd agree wholeheartedly. In this Universe though, the fact that the NHL has let this go on for 4 years as it is-even if they were getting paid a year or two of that-they have been so downright stubborn about not moving the team for whatever reason. I think they run it one more year as stated above. Your points make perfect sense though in all regards.

It would make SENSE for the NHL to call quitting time, but their previous history in this situation doesn't convince me.

 

[Ugmo]

In any other universe, I'd agree wholeheartedly. In this Universe though, the fact that the NHL has let this go on for 4 years as it is-even if they were getting paid a year or two of that-they have been so downright stubborn about not moving the team for whatever reason.

They had no landing spot for most of that time. After Winnipeg solved the Thrashers dilemma, there was no place for the Coyotes to be moved to. This time last year the new QC arena wasn't even a go, so that wasn't really an option. Plus they still had a friendly Glendale city council. If this goes into June and they're still in Glendale despite a lack of subsidies and a hostile city council, then that would indicate that there is a problem with Quebec.

 

[MaskedSonja]

They had no landing spot for most of that time. After Winnipeg solved the Thrashers dilemma, there was no place for the Coyotes to be moved to. This time last year the new QC arena wasn't even a go, so that wasn't really an option. Plus they still had a friendly Glendale city council. If this goes into June and they're still in Glendale despite a lack of subsidies and a hostile city council, then that would indicate that there is a problem with Quebec.

Hadn't thought about the location issue, but this makes sense-again, something the NHL has been a bit odd about in this saga. I really do hope that the sense prevails here as well.

I am hoping for QC to get their team back, sooner than later

Everyone is making sense with the logic about why this shouldn't be going past the end of May in Phoenix......yet I can't stop thinking that the NHL will find some reason-however bizarre and unrational it may be, to stay there another year-don't ask me why-just the old speculation

 

[Slashers98]

Hadn't thought about the location issue, but this makes sense-again, something the NHL has been a bit odd about in this saga. I really do hope that the sense prevails here as well.

I am hoping for QC to get their team back, sooner than later

Everyone is making sense with the logic about why this shouldn't be going past the end of May in Phoenix......yet I can't stop thinking that the NHL will find some reason-however bizarre and unrational it may be, to stay there another year-don't ask me why-just the old speculation

Here's my prediction Tinalera, the Coyotes remain in Glendale with a new owner or move to Quebec City with a new owner, either way, the NHL will not own them another year as the governors are tired of this charade.

 

[MaskedSonja]

Here's my prediction Tinalera, the Coyotes remain in Glendale with a new owner or move to Quebec City with a new owner, either way, the NHL will not own them another year as the governors are tired of this charade.

That's a fair one as well

I do agree that the owners are probably tired of the charade, and I would hope they've voiced that opinion to Bettman and Daly: Sell the team one way or another, just get our hands washed of this.

Whether Bettman/Daly actually follow through with this, I guess we'll see at the end of May.

It certainly won't be boring, whatever happens

 

[TheLegend]

Raise the ticket price average to $50 and stop giving away multiple tickets, and you'll see the Coyotes fans stay away from Jobing.com arena like it's the plague, especially with a bad product on the ice! Sports fans have other options in town, it's not like say the Calgary Flames, where the only show in town is hockey.

Prices did go up last year and the freebies were reduced to near zero. Yet attendance went up..... TV ratings went up.......

Nice try...

 

[Killion]

Whether Bettman/Daly actually follow through with this, I guess we'll see at the end of May.

Yes... the end of May..... maybe....

 

[Slashers98]

Prices did go up last year and the freebies were reduced to near zero. Yet attendance went up..... TV ratings went up.......

Nice try...

We all know attendances are always up after Christmas once the football season is over... the lock-out helped the Coyotes improve their average because the shortened season began at the end of January. We'll see next year (if they play in Glendale) if they are able to sustain that increase!

 

[Dave is a killer]

Yes... the end of May..... maybe....

OMG, I'm howling