Phoenix LXIII: I Have Become Comfortably Numb

[objectiveposter]

The NHL just made a 50/50 spilt(which is fair), lets say that the NHLPA take the offer(which is unlikely, they will find something that they don't like), but lets say they take the offer, what will it do to the Coyotes situation. I am in Quebec City getting a team basket, will this help Quebec City or will it hurt their chances?

it depends on the level of revenue sharing... if its significant, combined with lower payroll costs, combined with the subsidy from glendale the coyotes could be a break even team.

Now add competent ownership, more active arena, improving economy and all of a sudden the coyotes arent a terrible investment... but thats a best case scenario which is unlikely to unfold

 

[Killion]

The part that doesn't compute for me is how any investor could trust Glendale to perform on the subsidy. Lieberman already introduced the idea of a strategic default on the baseball bonds. IOUs from Glendale are not for the risk averse.

... ya, then theres that. You'd have to be making a leap beyond faith to ever believe those checks can be cashed. Irrational to think so. No way. So whats the point?

Half of the posts in all these threads are people suggesting names for the subsequent thread.

... we like to have fun here cheswick. Our little "Naming Rights" game a source of amusement & entertainment for many of the posters, a valve to blow off some steam. Problem?

 

[viper0220]

it depends on the level of revenue sharing... if its significant, combined with lower payroll costs, combined with the subsidy from glendale the coyotes could be a break even team.

Now add competent ownership, more active arena, improving economy and all of a sudden the coyotes arent a terrible investment... but thats a best case scenario which is unlikely to unfold

Thank you for the very good reesponse. I read somewhere(I forget where it was but it was a good reputable site) that for in order for the Coyotes to break even, the players share of HRR would be only 25%. So I don't think that even at 50/50 would make the Coyotes a profitable team.

 

[aqib]

The NHL just made a 50/50 spilt(which is fair), lets say that the NHLPA take the offer(which is unlikely, they will find something that they don't like), but lets say they take the offer, what will it do to the Coyotes situation. I am in Quebec City getting a team basket, will this help Quebec City or will it hurt their chances?

I think it hurts the chances for THIS season because it means the season starts on 11/2 which is before the Coyotes situation can be resolved.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

The ship has sailed for Quebec City in 2012-13 as far as I'm concerned. If the situation in Glendale continues to be a cluster**** though, then who knows for 2013-14 and beyond?

 

[OneMoreAstronaut]

Half of the posts in all these threads are people suggesting names for the subsequent thread.

Exactly. I've stopped coming here in search of the latest news (figured I'd give it one last try, shame on me), because all the threads contain is posters looking for their little moment in the sun for suggesting the next thread title.

 

[viper0220]

The ship has sailed for Quebec City in 2012-13 as far as I'm concerned. If the situation in Glendale continues to be a cluster**** though, then who knows for 2013-14 and beyond?

Yeah I agree with you there 2012-13 season ship is long gone for Quebec City. I think the team stays in Arizona for the 2012-13 season with PKP picking up the tab for all thier losses(40-50 Million a season) and then moves it to Quebec City.

 

[viper0220]

Exactly. I've stopped coming here in search of the latest news (figured I'd give it one last try, shame on me), because all the threads contain is posters looking for their little moment in the sun for suggesting the next thread title.

Yeah that's getting annoying, the Mods should just start deleting.

 

[yotesreign]

Half of the posts in all these threads are people suggesting names for the subsequent thread.

Deja vu - seems 2 posts of every thread point that out.

The *sale* will NOT be resolved within a fortnight.

 

[powerstuck]

it depends on the level of revenue sharing... if its significant, combined with lower payroll costs, combined with the subsidy from glendale the coyotes could be a break even team.

Now add competent ownership, more active arena, improving economy and all of a sudden the coyotes arent a terrible investment... but thats a best case scenario which is unlikely to unfold

Lets speak of the proposal.

Current parts of the proposal that might affect the most the Coyotes situations are a HHR share of 50/50 and a Revenue Sharing of $200M (global).

So, if (I don't know if it works that way) 1/3rd of teams are eligible for Revenue sharing from a $200M pot, does every team gets $10M ? Is that a positive thing for the Coyotes or not ? In what way is it better than the last CBA ?

 

[cbcwpg]

it depends on the level of revenue sharing... if its significant, combined with lower payroll costs, combined with the subsidy from glendale the coyotes could be a break even team.

Now add competent ownership, more active arena, improving economy and all of a sudden the coyotes arent a terrible investment... but thats a best case scenario which is unlikely to unfold

Assumption time ( just to get an approx. so don't kill the math ):

NHL proposed revenue sharing pie: $200,000,000 / season

NHL proposed HHR split 50%. That is a 7% difference between where it is now. So assuming $3.3B in NHL revenue , the 7% difference would be $231,000,000 extra in the owners pockets.

Not sure how the revenue sharing is split by team, but let's assume it is split evenly by 10 teams ( 1/3 of the league ) = $20,000,000 / team

The HHR difference split evenly = $7,700,000 / team

So assuming the Coyotes get revenue sharing, the team could end up with $27,700,000 extra in their pockets compared to last year. And assuming that the $25,000,000 the CoG put in were in fact all the losses the team had.... we "could" be approaching break even here...... except still for the fact that expenses are going to continue to rise, player salaries are going to continue to rise ( as long as the NHL keeps having 7% growth), can the Coyotes meet the revenue sharing rules, and IMO losses are way higher than $25M per year.

Just numbers and just spit-balling, but I still think it would take a miracle for this team to become profitable no matter what the CBA looks like.

 

[madhi19]

Assumption time ( just to get an approx. so don't kill the math ):

NHL proposed revenue sharing pie: $200,000,000 / season

NHL proposed HHR split 50%. That is a 7% difference between where it is now. So assuming $3.3B in NHL revenue , the 7% difference would be $231,000,000 extra in the owners pockets.

Not sure how the revenue sharing is split by team, but let's assume it is split evenly by 10 teams ( 1/3 of the league ) = $20,000,000 / team

The HHR difference split evenly = $7,700,000 / team

So assuming the Coyotes get revenue sharing, the team could end up with $27,700,000 extra in their pockets compared to last year. And assuming that the $25,000,000 the CoG put in were in fact all the losses the team had.... we "could" be approaching break even here...... except still for the fact that expenses are going to continue to rise, player salaries are going to continue to rise ( as long as the NHL keeps having 7% growth), can the Coyotes meet the revenue sharing rules, and IMO losses are way higher than $25M per year.

Just numbers and just spit-balling, but I still think it would take a miracle for this team to become profitable no matter what the CBA looks like.

Back in 2011 It was around 150 million and the max a single team could get was around 10 million so am guessing more than 10 teams got revenue sharing. That hike to 200 ain't going to help all that much. The 7% will have a bigger impact at least temporary. If league revenue keep rising even at a 50/50 the cap and floor will still rise.

 

[jetman66]

With the possibility of an end to lockout forthcoming, today's COG meeting takes on more importance. If council vetoes GJ (at the advice of Skeetes), this takes on a whole new dimension.
Are the 'Yotes in limbo?...a team without a home.
Will the NHL carry the team this season?
Will the COG taxpayers subsidize the team for another season?
So many questions....not enough answers.

Crunch time is on the horizon...

 

[madhi19]

With the possibility of an end to lockout forthcoming, today's COG meeting takes on more importance. If council vetoes GJ (at the advice of Skeetes), this takes on a whole new dimension.
Are the 'Yotes in limbo?...a team without a home.
Will the NHL carry the team this season?
Will the COG taxpayers subsidize the team for another season?
So many questions....not enough answers.

Crunch time is on the horizon...

Emergency relocation could be in store for the Yotes if the league and PA settle soon. Or and this is the interesting part 82 away games and gate split 50/50 between the NHL and the team receiving the yotes.

 

[jetman66]

I can't visualize any investor getting involved in this fiasco..
The complete uncertainty. There's gotta be a more secure investment than this train wreck...

 

[jetman66]

The only other solution is contraction....which could have been Gary's master plan all along. Not sure how that would go over with PA.

 

[madhi19]

I can't visualize any investor getting involved in this fiasco..
The complete uncertainty. There's gotta be a more secure investment than this train wreck...

You could buy a truckload of lottery ticket with that money and get a higher rate of return.

 

[Killion]

The only other solution is contraction....which could have been Gary's master plan all along. Not sure how that would go over with PA.

.... thats seriously problematical though. The NHL's on the hook for a huge chunk of change here, according to some, north of $200M despite the figure of $170M being bandied about. Theres no way the BOG's, 17-18 teams purportedly in dire straights as it is are going to want to cough up millions each to pay off the line of credit the NHL used to buy & fund the franchises' operations over the past 3 seasons. Gary Bettman is on the record as stating it wouldnt cost them anything so how is it even reconcilable that they pull a 180 and just eat it? Wont happen.

The Coyotes are either sold locally or they'll be sold for relocation and obviously the only destination available at this moment in time with an NHL ready arena (and a new one on the way) and willing buyer is in Quebec, a franchise in that market actually worth the price being asked. For Seattle to take this on at this time with at least 3yrs playing out of a refurbished KeyArena or TacomaDome would be a financial money pit. They'd be grossly over-paying for the franchise in a new market with at minimum losses of $20M+ for the first 3yrs of their existence in temporary housing.

 

[Ludwig Fell Down]

I may be stealing Kevy's thunder here, but I've been out of the loop for a bit. I'm hoping one of the kind ladies or gents on this thread can fill me in on a few details that I'm not sure of:

Does the CoG still owe $5m from last year's subsidy to the NHL?
Is there an agreement to cover losses for 2012-13, should the NHL still own the team, or are we still on 30-day extensions?
Is there a new proposed deal with Jamison, or is that still being drafted?

Thanks in advance.

 

[madhi19]

.... thats seriously problematical though. The NHL's on the hook for a huge chunk of change here, according to some, north of $200M despite the figure of $170M being bandied about. Theres no way the BOG's, 17-18 teams purportedly in dire straights as it is are going to want to cough up millions each to pay off the line of credit the NHL used to buy & fund the franchises' operations over the past 3 seasons. Gary Bettman is on the record as stating it wouldnt cost them anything so how is it even reconcilable that they pull a 180 and just eat it? Wont happen.

The Coyotes are either sold locally or they'll be sold for relocation and obviously the only destination available at this moment in time with an NHL ready arena (and a new one on the way) and willing buyer is in Quebec, a franchise in that market actually worth the price being asked. For Seattle to take this on at this time with at least 3yrs playing out of a refurbished KeyArena or TacomaDome would be a financial money pit. They'd be grossly over-paying for the franchise in a new market with at minimum losses of $20M+ for the first 3yrs of their existence in temporary housing.

Does Seattle even got an owner? If they don't have an owner right now Seattle is not that ready yet.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Thousands of years from now, when historians sift through the decayed ruins of the Internet, they're going to uncover this thread and those linked to it.

They're going to think this was the defining conflict of our time.

Or that we were all part of some weird cult.

Who's cutting off their genitals first??? I am... I am!!!

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

The NHL just made a 50/50 spilt(which is fair)

1) The NHL will sell GJ the Coyotes for ~$75M to $100M.

2) The NHL will announce a sale price of $175M.

3) The GWI will huff and puff but do nothing.

4) The NHL will continue to say that they have NO plans for expansion.

5) The NHL will enter a negotiation with the NHLPA and insist on a 50-50 revenue sharing.

6) The NHLPA will say “HELL NO!!!!!”.

7) The NHL will then say “I’ll tell you what. You give us 50% (a reduction of 7%) and we will expand by 2 teams (a jobs increase of 7%)”.

8) The NHLPA will agree.

9) There will be a higher ceiling and lower floor – making the Coyote more inexpensive to run. The players will also get to play in Sochi in 2014.

10) The NHL will expand to QC in around 2014. The BoG will put a cool $200M in their pocket that they don’t have to share with the players.

11) The NHL will also expand to either Seattle (for $150 - $200M) or Toronto(2 for $300M). Again, the players will see none of it.

12) Gary Bettman will look like a hero which will makes us all feel a little sicker at night.

 

[Killion]

1) Does the CoG still owe $5m from last year's subsidy to the NHL?

2) Is there an agreement to cover losses for 2012-13, should the NHL still own the team, or are we still on 30-day extensions?

3) Is there a new proposed deal with Jamison, or is that still being drafted?

Thanks in advance.

1) No idea if thats been cleared up or not.

2) $17M has been allocated in the COG Budget for AMF 12-13 pursuant to Jamisons June Agreement. No sale, no payment. With the NHL in Lockout, 30 Day Extensions on-going month-month. No request for an AMF from the NHL to the COG (that we know about) YET.

3) Supposedly so, in the hands of the COG's/Jamisons Attorneys.

Then Ludwig Fell Down, again?

Does Seattle even got an owner? If they don't have an owner right now Seattle is not that ready yet.

No one coming right out & stating as much. Levin, owner of the AHL Chicago Wolves & some locals. There are just so many loose ends and unknowns in Seattle (and sure, Id love to see a team there & in Portland for that matter) combined with the lack of a suitable interim facility & franchise price as to make it a rather premature option to say the least. The costs to bring Key up to code, install an ice-plant etc etc etc with 1000's of site restricted seats.... just ludicrous. Details of a Lease with Hansen in a new building need to be hammered out. Just on & on.

 

[Ludwig Fell Down]

1) No idea if thats been cleared up or not.

2) $17M has been allocated in the COG Budget for AMF 12-13 pursuant to Jamisons June Agreement. No sale, no payment. With the NHL in Lockout, 30 Day Extensions on-going month-month. No request for an AMF from the NHL to the COG (that we know about) YET.

3) Supposedly so, in the hands of the COG's/Jamisons Attorneys.

Then Ludwig Fell Down, again?


.

Seventy-second verse, same as the first . . . .

Thank you, kind Killion.

 

[Fanned On It]

I prefer the collaboration of Waters, Van, and the Band. Van's old and damaged voice is so perfect, and what can be said about the band? Just perfect. I was born in 1985 and am not much for the psychedelic silliness. I much, much prefer the simple straightforwardness of that new version.

PSYCHEDELIC SILLINESS? There is NOTHING silly about psychedelics my friend, come on now.