Phoenix L; AllByDesign?

[sipowicz]

It is probably safe to say that the Coyotes will be in Phoenix for one more year. End of May seemed to be the deadline for the Thrasher relocation to Winnipeg.

And if they do stay we know:

-they will have one of the lowest average ticket prices in the league (if not the lowest)

-they will have the leagues lowest attendance

-they will struggle to sell season tickets

-the NHL will own the team

-both the NHL and COG will lose millions of dollars

-a new ownership will enter the picture sometime in late Feb. or early March

-Bettman and Daly will say the deal is all but finalized in early April.........

 

[Killion]

^^^ God help us.

 

[Mr McV]

Even if the team moves at a later date than seems feasible, they will lose less money than if they stay in Phoenix.

 

[Whileee]

Like QcBlizzard explained, the boards replacement to make them up-to NHL standard is currently underway. While they are doing this, they will also do some work to the icing surface concrete.

Just my opinion but they should also redo the AC for the Colisée because it's hot inside and ice condition suffers.

So, they are already working on the things they can safely work on without selling the scoop, on things they needed to do anyway.

My comment was meant to say that currently no one has really access inside the building because there is no public events (There is 3 music shows between June 1st and July 8th inside Colisée).

So, I don't think it's late just yet for the Nordiques. Setting up a marketing team might be a little short on time, but I'm sure Jets people didn't have trouble going soldout on Jets 1st season. As for the construction part, it's definitely not late because Colisée will be free between July 8th and August 15th and that gives a lot of time to work on the pipes inside the building.



But there is still 36 hours till end of May

I think it is highly likely that the NHL already has a deal with Quebec for relocation. The only question is whether it is still a "Plan B", or whether it is already a fait accompli that the Coyotes will relocate.

The reason for my speculation on this is that the NHL has not yet forced Glendale to approve a lease or agree to another $25 million for next year. I don't believe that Bettman would risk being left twisting in the wind at this late date, which would happen if Glendale rejected a lease with Jamison. He would have lost all leverage if he didn't have a back-up plan all ready to go.

If a deal to keep the Coyotes in Glendale does fall through, I'll bet that we hear about the relocation within days, and we will subsequently learn that it was essentially negotiated and agreed to weeks or months before the fate of the Coyotes was finally determined.

By the way, since I do think that there is some possibility that we will have our answer on the Coyotes in the next couple of threads, here's a suggestion for a thread title: "Fate Accompli!"

 

[Confucius]

I think it is highly likely that the NHL already has a deal with Quebec for relocation. The only question is whether it is still a "Plan B", or whether it is already a fait accompli that the Coyotes will relocate.

The reason for my speculation on this is that the NHL has not yet forced Glendale to approve a lease or agree to another $25 million for next year. I don't believe that Bettman would risk being left twisting in the wind at this late date, which would happen if Glendale rejected a lease with Jamison. He would have lost all leverage if he didn't have a back-up plan all ready to go.

If a deal to keep the Coyotes in Glendale does fall through, I'll bet that we hear about the relocation within days, and we will subsequently learn that it was essentially negotiated and agreed to weeks or months before the fate of the Coyotes was finally determined.

By the way, since I do think that there is some possibility that we will have our answer on the Coyotes in the next couple of threads, here's a suggestion for a thread title: "Fate Accompli!"

Perhaps the city advised the NHL not to explore a backup plan, as it may intefere with their negotiations with GJ.

 

[Nordskull]

Like QcBlizzard explained, the boards replacement to make them up-to NHL standard is currently underway. While they are doing this, they will also do some work to the icing surface concrete.

Just my opinion but they should also redo the AC for the Colisée because it's hot inside and ice condition suffers.

So, they are already working on the things they can safely work on without selling the scoop, on things they needed to do anyway.

My comment was meant to say that currently no one has really access inside the building because there is no public events (There is 3 music shows between June 1st and July 8th inside Colisée).

So, I don't think it's late just yet for the Nordiques. Setting up a marketing team might be a little short on time, but I'm sure Jets people didn't have trouble going soldout on Jets 1st season. As for the construction part, it's definitely not late because Colisée will be free between July 8th and August 15th and that gives a lot of time to work on the pipes inside the building.



But there is still 36 hours till end of May

Marketing team?

Really? What's for? ;-) (kidding a bit)

Setup a web tickets thing, this is gonna be as insane as it can get.

 

[JMT21]

I think it is highly likely that the NHL already has a deal with Quebec for relocation. The only question is whether it is still a "Plan B", or whether it is already a fait accompli that the Coyotes will relocate.

The reason for my speculation on this is that the NHL has not yet forced Glendale to approve a lease or agree to another $25 million for next year. I don't believe that Bettman would risk being left twisting in the wind at this late date, which would happen if Glendale rejected a lease with Jamison. He would have lost all leverage if he didn't have a back-up plan all ready to go.

If a deal to keep the Coyotes in Glendale does fall through, I'll bet that we hear about the relocation within days, and we will subsequently learn that it was essentially negotiated and agreed to weeks or months before the fate of the Coyotes was finally determined.

By the way, since I do think that there is some possibility that we will have our answer on the Coyotes in the next couple of threads, here's a suggestion for a thread title: "Fate Accompli!"

There is no way the COG will reject ANY lease provided by GJ... assuming of course one is forthcoming... the lease could contain an absolutely ridiculous egg management fee and 3 of the councillors will vote in favor. Heck, the fee could be 50M a year and Clark would vote in favor.

We still don't even know if GJ has secured the $$$ to buy the team. The man hasn't said one word since his "say nothing" presser 22 days ago. GJ of course has the luxury of dragging this "purchase" out until the cows come home.

The NHL and the COG and NOT GJ will determine this teams future.

 

[Confucius]

There is no way the COG will reject ANY lease provided by GJ... assuming of course one is forthcoming... the lease could contain an absolutely ridiculous egg management fee and 3 of the councillors will vote in favor. Heck, the fee could be 50M a year and Clark would vote in favor.

We still don't even know if GJ has secured the $$$ to buy the team. The man hasn't said one word since his "say nothing" presser 22 days ago. GJ of course has the luxury of dragging this "purchase" out until the cows come home.

The NHL and the COG and NOT GJ will determine this teams future.

Only the city has the power here.

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

It is probably safe to say that the Coyotes will be in Phoenix for one more year. End of May seemed to be the deadline for the Thrasher relocation to Winnipeg.

The one major difference is that last year the NHL, ASG and TNSE had to engage in negotiations for a few weeks (I believe from May 12, the date COG voted for another 25 million, to May 31st) before a sale was announced. However, from the way Chipman tells it, TNSE had virtually completed the deal to buy the Coyotes if COG didn't vote for more money.

It seems like if COG backs out from the tentative sale this year for whatever reason, the NHL wouldn't have to "negotiate" for a few weeks with PKP - it would just be announced immediately after COG withdraws. Also, people like Dreger were sure (probably because the NHL told them) that if the sale of the Thrashers to TNSE wasn't completed before the SCF, it would be announced after the SCF. So I think two weeks from now (some time around June 12 - coincidence?) would be the absolute deadline.

 

[Whileee]

Perhaps the city advised the NHL not to explore a backup plan, as it may intefere with their negotiations with GJ.

They could have asked, but there is no way that the NHL would have listened. Rest assured, Bettman has a back-up plan all ready to go, regardless of his assertions to the contrary.

There is no way the COG will reject ANY lease provided by GJ... assuming of course one is forthcoming... the lease could contain an absolutely ridiculous egg management fee and 3 of the councillors will vote in favor. Heck, the fee could be 50M a year and Clark would vote in favor.

We still don't even know if GJ has secured the $$$ to buy the team. The man hasn't said one word since his "say nothing" presser 22 days ago. GJ of course has the luxury of dragging this "purchase" out until the cows come home.

The NHL and the COG and NOT GJ will determine this teams future.

I agree that there is real doubt about whether GJ has the money. But I disagree that the COG will agree to any lease. If GJ wants an early out clause after high AMFs, I can't see it passing even the COG council. For example, if GJ wants $90-100 million over the next five years, with an ability to bail thereafter, I can't see how Glendale would agree.

 

[viper0220]

I think it is highly likely that the NHL already has a deal with Quebec for relocation. The only question is whether it is still a "Plan B", or whether it is already a fait accompli that the Coyotes will relocate.

The reason for my speculation on this is that the NHL has not yet forced Glendale to approve a lease or agree to another $25 million for next year. I don't believe that Bettman would risk being left twisting in the wind at this late date, which would happen if Glendale rejected a lease with Jamison. He would have lost all leverage if he didn't have a back-up plan all ready to go.

If a deal to keep the Coyotes in Glendale does fall through, I'll bet that we hear about the relocation within days, and we will subsequently learn that it was essentially negotiated and agreed to weeks or months before the fate of the Coyotes was finally determined.

By the way, since I do think that there is some possibility that we will have our answer on the Coyotes in the next couple of threads, here's a suggestion for a thread title: "Fate Accompli!"

I think that this is also the case, the NHL has said nothing about lease or anything with cog. A plan may already be in place to move the team to Quebec City but Bettman will give his usually speech " we don't like to move teams" but behind the scenes they may be working on the finals details with PKP. As I have already said before PKP Already knows if he is getting a team or not, so if he is getting a team then he probably has most of the stuff set up.

 

[Nordskull]

The one major difference is that last year the NHL, ASG and TNSE had to engage in negotiations for a few weeks (I believe from May 12, the date COG voted for another 25 million, to May 31st) before a sale was announced. However, from the way Chipman tells it, TNSE had virtually completed the deal to buy the Coyotes if COG didn't vote for more money.

It seems like if COG backs out from the tentative sale this year for whatever reason, the NHL wouldn't have to "negotiate" for a few weeks with PKP - it would just be announced immediately after COG withdraws. Also, people like Dreger were sure (probably because the NHL told them) that if the sale of the Thrashers to TNSE wasn't completed before the SCF, it would be announced after the SCF. So I think two weeks from now (some time around June 12 - coincidence?) would be the absolute deadline.

Too weak or two weeks?

 

[Killion]

...well, the leagues got til what, tomorrow (AMUL)?.

 

[David_99]

I agree that there is real doubt about whether GJ has the money. But I disagree that the COG will agree to any lease. If GJ wants an early out clause after high AMFs, I can't see it passing even the COG council. For example, if GJ wants $90-100 million over the next five years, with an ability to bail thereafter, I can't see how Glendale would agree.

I don't know. I have a feeling the majority would say "5 years is better then nothing and a lot can happen in 5 years". It'll also be someone else's problem then.

Besides, in those 5 years they can make up to $30M in revenue and only have to pay 90-100M to get it. How can they pass that up?...

 

[Cryogenic Man]

Like QcBlizzard explained, the boards replacement to make them up-to NHL standard is currently underway. While they are doing this, they will also do some work to the icing surface concrete.

Just my opinion but they should also redo the AC for the Colisée because it's hot inside and ice condition suffers.

So, they are already working on the things they can safely work on without selling the scoop, on things they needed to do anyway.

My comment was meant to say that currently no one has really access inside the building because there is no public events (There is 3 music shows between June 1st and July 8th inside Colisée).

So, I don't think it's late just yet for the Nordiques. Setting up a marketing team might be a little short on time, but I'm sure Jets people didn't have trouble going soldout on Jets 1st season. As for the construction part, it's definitely not late because Colisée will be free between July 8th and August 15th and that gives a lot of time to work on the pipes inside the building.



But there is still 36 hours till end of May

The AC will definitely be take care of, as first they were meant to buy it, which meant costs upwards of $30 Million, but they will rent instead lowering costs to just under $10 million for the Colisée renovations.

As far as a marketing team is concerned,I'm sure the contingence plan is there. Its Quebecor, they're media giants. TV stations, cellular phones, newspapers, magazines, internet search engines. They've got you covered. Top that off with the fact that just the announcement will be marketing enough since it is Québec and presto! I wouldn't even worry about merchandise and season or ticket sales.

 

[Cryogenic Man]

I don't know. I have a feeling the majority would say "5 years is better then nothing and lots can happen in 5 years". Besides, it'll be someone else's problem then.

I'm going to have to agree here. Some of those Glendale city council members are desperate, or at least they act like it. I can only see Martinez, or Knaaaaack change votes or react. But that would surprise me.

 

[TheLegend]

Legend,

You and probably differ in our analysis of the situation. I think the Phoenix area can't support a team through ticket sales only, and I think it's not the wisest move for Glendale to give them $17M a year to stay. You live there, and love the team, and therefore see things differently.

However, I agree totally with this part of the post. Really, nothing has happened in the last 10 days, which is roughly since this thread was started. (Well, maybe one comment from Daly.) So, this thread is basically 900 posts of different people saying "I'm right." "No, I'm right..." etc.

{I give Casual Fan a pass on this. CF has done some good research into the details of AMFs and so forth. I don't know how much that actually has to do with CoG or NHL or GWI reasoning, but it's reasonable information, anyway.}

This (no real news, and yet another thread goes up in smoke) is the reason I would like all PHX megathreads closed until there is some real news...

We are all just wasting our time.

Actually we are in more agreement than you think.

I know it's going to take more than ticket sales to make an NHL franchise in this market workable. Never have believed otherwise. But I also feel with the right people in place it is doable.

What we have had here for the past 16 years on the business end of things is a circus. The city (Phoenix metro) took in a homeless franchise it wasn't truly ready for, and only in the past three has there been some stability within the on-ice product. What's left is to get an ownership in place that can run it like it should have been long ago.

But even if Jamison can get a deal done he's definitely got his work cut out for him. The team's on-ice success the past three years gives him a solid foundation to build from. Whether or not he can get close to the success he had in San Jose remains to be seen.

Glendale is taking a huge risk putting out the $17 million. I really don't like the idea of them continually forking money over like that either. But at this point they really don't have much choice in the matter.

CF and I have rarely been in agreement on things but I enjoy and appreciate the information he brings in.

 

[Cryogenic Man]

Actually we are in more agreement than you think.

I know it's going to take more than ticket sales to make an NHL franchise in this market workable. Never have believed otherwise. But I also feel with the right people in place it is doable.

What we have had here for the past 16 years on the business end of things is a circus. The city (Phoenix metro) took in a homeless franchise it wasn't truly ready for, and only in the past three has there been some stability within the on-ice product. What's left is to get an ownership in place that can run it like it should have been long ago.

But even if Jamison can get a deal done he's definitely got his work cut out for him. The team's on-ice success the past three years gives him a solid foundation to build from. Whether or not he can get close to the success he had in San Jose remains to be seen.

Glendale is taking a huge risk putting out the $17 million. I really don't like the idea of them continually forking money over like that either. But at this point they really don't have much choice in the matter.

CF and I have rarely been in agreement on things but I enjoy and appreciate the information he brings in.

Hey Legend, I agree here, it's true that if a someone really wanted to make a go of it in Glendale it would be hard but maybe not impossible to make it work.

For the bolded part, i think it's a misconception that Jamison turned the sharks franchise around, I believe they were already mildly succesful and Jamison just kept it going. The other thing is, when he left the franchise he was taking it in a direction the Sharks org were not comfortable with and he might have been outed from his post. I posted the article on that story here somewhere.

I do have a question, it's recently been reported that the AZ Cardinals are not happy with the parking arrangements made by Glendale and that they still have not respected the agreement. The lawsuit seems to be still alive. What do you think happens if a lawsuit for $67 million is underway? or do you not think those 2 issues, a sale of the Coyotes,an AMF and the lawsuit can be related?

 

[Killion]

...I also feel with the right people in place it is doable. But even if Jamison can get a deal done he's definitely got his work cut out for him.

....ya, thats for sure, & of course I agree with the first part of your post. Im worried though that he has yet to really assert himself vocally or otherwise. Tomorrow is a rather critical date so I guess we'll see.

 

[JMT21]

....ya, thats for sure, & of course I agree with the first part of your post. Im worried though that he has yet to really assert himself vocally or otherwise. Tomorrow is a rather critical date so I guess we'll see.

Tomorrow being critical because?

Is May 31st the date that the year to year AMUL between the COG and NHL expires?

Either party has the choice to renew the agreement ?

Explain please.

 

[Cryogenic Man]

Tomorrow being critical because?

Is May 31st the date that the year to year AMUL between the COG and NHL expires?

Either party has the choice to renew the agreement ?

Explain please.

Good question, I have the AMUL, let me see cause that would be interesting.

 

[RAgIn]

Latest from Daly:

Halverstadt:

There’s no target date for when #Coyotes could be sold but #NHL No. 2 Bill Daly tells me talks are going well.

Daly: “The process continues to move forward and there don't appear to be any roadblocks that would derail it.” #Coyotes

http://twitter.com/#!/lisahalverstadt

 

[MNNumbers]

Good question, I have the AMUL, let me see cause that would be interesting.

It would be interesting to me, also, because someone wrote on this thread yesterday exactly that - if the NHL doesn't renew tomorrow, then the year-to-year AMUL is finished.

However, it was also written that the rights the NHL has under the AMUL do not include automatically receiving $25M from CoG.

I wrote - so, if NHL doesn't renew by Thursday, then we know that either they are selling to GJ, and GJ is looking for that $17M, or they are selling for relo, most likely to PKP.

The response was something to the effect "That's not much more than we already know..."

 

[RAgIn]

I found this to be rather interesting. Mayor Scruggs viewed two different draft agreements. One of them was "use-and-relocation agreement"!? Key word relocation.

Scruggs: “We received, I know I got mine at about 8:30 Friday night, a white envelope sealed and in there were a draft arena management agreement and a use-and-relocation agreement. Were those the first agreements of those types that had been prepared?”

Tindall: “Those were the first agreements that were provided to council. Those were the first agreements that had been prepared.”

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/westsideinsider/162998

 

[MNNumbers]

RaGin,

Nothing in those 2 quotes in post 947 makes it clear he is talking about Jamison. I could easily read it like this:

No problems in our negotiations with Peladeau. Nothing to hinder it from closing....


Was there more to the tweet? Maybe that's why the mods don't like tweets.