Phoenix CXIII: Astrobucks, Omnishambles, and Other Catchy Words

[Ciao]

I didn't look for any records but I did ask if anyone was aware of which officials Bettman reportedly met with. Haven't seen it reported; seems like an obvious question though

I am highly doubtful that there ever was such a meeting.

An appearance by the Commish without an appearance is nothing at all. Seriously, he doesn't have to travel to do business. The travel is mainly for the sake of appearances and lending support.

I think all they could get away with is the appearance of an appearance to feed the narrative.

I would need to put my hands in his sides, or at least to see the photos, to believe this one.

Call me Thomas.

 

[JimAnchower]

I don't believe that Morgan said that they met with the mayor of Phoenix.On the Doug and Wolf show he said it was officials from Phoenix, someone from ASU and others that he was even more obscure about naming.Without naming anyone specifically he says sources say it went well. Seems to me that when Bettman arrives on the scene of arena negotiations in Arizona it is almost always some type of ultimatum. Glendale meetings are a classic example. If things are going well he would not show until the documents are ready to sign. Based on past performance this was to push the process along, probably using the same type of tactics that always worked on Glendale.
For the 3rd time..Has anyone on the building side confirmed that there was any meeting? or is this just coming from the Coyote side?

I jokingly said that someone should check FlightAware to see if Bettman's plane did the journey. But if they didn't even meet with Mayor Stanton, I'm skeptical of it. Why would Bettman fly across the country to only meet with officials? You don't need the big hitters if that is all you are doing. Now when Bettman went to Calgary early this year, he didn't meet with Mayor Nenshi. But that seems more like Nenshi wasn't interested and Nenshi also questioned the need for a new arena. Here, we know Stanton would like to build a new arena at some point. Wouldn't Bettman and Stanton want the photo op that could bring? Also, when Bettman went to Calgary, there were several press conferences and interviews where he could play bad cop and get more support for a new arena while making veiled threats the team could leave if it doesn't happen. Here, he apparently came in and left, like the wind.

 

[Fairview]

And the result of all this? We can forget about all of the end of season, end of April deadlines. We now have 3 new ones. According to this latest supposed meeting, we have sometime in May. But then, we have the town hall LeBlank proclaimation of June or July 1st at the latest. Which one is it? Can't Bettman and LeBlank get on the same page?

 

[Llama19]

I am highly doubtful that there ever was such a meeting.

An appearance by the Commish without an appearance is nothing at all. Seriously, he doesn't have to travel to do business. The travel is mainly for the sake of appearances and lending support...Call me Thomas.

I jokingly said that someone should check FlightAware to see if Bettman's plane did the journey. But if they didn't even meet with Mayor Stanton, I'm skeptical of it...

I didn't look for any records but I did ask if anyone was aware of which officials Bettman reportedly met with. Haven't seen it reported; seems like an obvious question though

Sunnucks has, so it must be true...

Report: NHL boss Gary Bettman met with Valley, state officials about new Coyotes arena

Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...-boss-gary-bettman-met-with-valley-state.html

Full on unconfirms everywhere...

 

[cutchemist42]

No, I havent found a thing since I started looking yesterday via google search. No blurbs, no tweets, no reports, nothing.



Far from alone in that regard Mork. When confronted with the implausible such as we have been then sure, Relo is the only plausible explanation. None of what were hearing from LeBlanc & or NHL friendly blogsters & reporters adds up. Doesnt make any sense no matter how you slice & dice it. IA simply does not have the kind of capital required to put towards the building of a new facility nor can they provide the kind of collateral that would be required to secure a loan to finance their contribution. To expect the Salt River - Pima Band to just absorb 100% of those costs?...

Then theres the timing, logistics. Without the NHL & their credit facilities propping up this club, these guys wouldnt make it to the last payroll of the 15/16 season let alone the first payroll of the 16/17 season so how are they going to get from then to lets say October of the 2019/20 season? Thats IF, and a BIG IF anyone in the Valley actually wants to do business with them much less shell out several hundred million for yet another facility in an already seriously overcrowded market. And then what?... Just hand over the keys,pay IA a big fat Mgmnt Fee & let them keep about 90% of all revenues including naming rights?... What have they (including the Blackmailing NHL who got away with $50M) done that has earned such largesse, faith & trust?.///

What is plausible is that the NHL & LeBlanc are now in full-on damage control, "giving the appearance" of doing everything possible to save the franchise after those Big, Bad Old Meanies from Glendale drove us out. All spin, PR.

Thats the thing, I would think its pretty easy for elected officials to figure out how mickey mouse the organization is and end the conversation right there. I wouldnt be giving any cred to these guys on first sniff if I was even looking at it the first time.

 

[mesamonster]

Another deadline is also approaching. When the season ends the coaching staff, Tippett in particular, have decisions to make regarding futures with the team. If the arena discussion is nothing more than talk and no concrete plans have been made to move from GRA, be assured there will be changes in the coaching staff. Should the team lose Tippett they will have lost a major ingredient of what makes the on ice product worth seeing. A year at GRA with a new coach and general uncertainty will be yet another red mark on the clowns.

I still believe this team will be relocating after this year, perhaps Gb`s visit had more to do with the logistics of relocation than a new arena?

 

[blues10]

Thats the thing, I would think its pretty easy for elected officials to figure out how mickey mouse the organization is and end the conversation right there. I wouldnt be giving any cred to these guys on first sniff if I was even looking at it the first time.

I am sure Lebeesur has his arena building pitch down pretty good. Been practicing in front of a mirror all day since last June. All the right answers to all the questions asked of him. All the financier/sucker of the new arena has to do is build a big surface parking lot beside the new arena and voila $100 million dollars of parking revenue in addition to all the money the Coyotes will share with the arena builder. If that doesn't generate enough money they can play a dozen games a season in Saskatoon. If that doesn't work the arena owner can simply pay millions to the Coyotes to play in the arena because without the Coyotes concerts won't come to the newly built arena. If that doesn't work he can mention that without the Coyotes and a new arena a haboob will wipe out the entire area causing 3 days of darkness followed by locusts and poltical visionaries being covered in boils..........I can just hear Lebeesur selling his 'build me an arena" plan.

 

[Llama19]

I am sure Lebeesur has his arena building pitch down pretty good. Been practicing in front of a mirror all day since last June. All the right answers to all the questions asked of him. All the financier/sucker of the new arena has to do is build a big surface parking lot beside the new arena and voila $100 million dollars of parking revenue in addition to all the money the Coyotes will share with the arena builder. If that doesn't generate enough money they can play a dozen games a season in Saskatoon. If that doesn't work the arena owner can simply pay millions to the Coyotes to play in the arena because without the Coyotes concerts won't come to the newly built arena. If that doesn't work he can mention that without the Coyotes and a new arena a haboob will wipe out the entire area causing 3 days of darkness followed by locusts and poltical visionaries being covered in boils..........I can just hear Lebeesur selling his 'build me an arena" plan.

All arenas are not equally free and independent,
our arena, which you shall build for us,
will have certain inherent revenue rights, of which,
those revenues cannot be deprived or divested of, except to us namely,
Your enjoyment of watching hockey is all that you are entitled to,
our ownership life and liquidity, is our means of acquiring and possessing property,
and pursuing and obtaining happiness and profits.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Another deadline is also approaching. When the season ends the coaching staff, Tippett in particular, have decisions to make regarding futures with the team. If the arena discussion is nothing more than talk and no concrete plans have been made to move from GRA, be assured there will be changes in the coaching staff. Should the team lose Tippett they will have lost a major ingredient of what makes the on ice product worth seeing. A year at GRA with a new coach and general uncertainty will be yet another red mark on the clowns.

This whole Coyotes saga may be a deep sea of bull excrement, but on the list of things to worry about, Dave Tippett's future with the team is pretty damn well near the bottom. In fact, Tippett's trap-heavy system is one of the least entertaining things about this team and over on the Coyotes' board the calls have been long and loud for Tippett to be fired in favor of someone like Newell Brown, the assistant coach in charge of the power play and the only one of the current coaching staff to have made any sort of positive impact over the last couple of years.

Losing a coach who has failed to take his team to the playoffs in four years is not going to be a huge source of angst or Weltschmerz to the fanbase.

 

[Killion]

I still believe this team will be relocating after this year, perhaps Gb`s visit had more to do with the logistics of relocation than a new arena?

Hard to say whats real anymore. Nothing emanating from any official anywhere to confirm said meetings though it beggars belief to imagine there would be totally bogus reports of "meetings with officials" from accredited sources. Things are getting very strange. The only thing that makes any sense based on these patterns,on what LeBlanc's been stating and in moving the goalposts around, smoke machines on full seems straight out of the PR 101 Playbook. Publicly to be seen to be doing everything humanly possible to secure another site, building & partner to insure the clubs permanence in the market with vague & ethereal proclamations that are impossible to substantiate while.... Privately.... concluded last year when Glendale revoked the AMC and went RFP that that was it, game over. Everything thats followed pure theater. The only thing left they have to sell is False Hope and must do so in order to try & mitigate losses as much as possible with a short & sharp exit from the State while simultaneously blaming the COG for all of their problems.. and when these Castles in the Sky fail to materialize.. blame it all on Glendale. Not enough to victimize the City, they'll be trying to drive their Winnebago's over the corpse on their way out of town.

..........I can just hear Lebeesur selling his 'build me an arena" plan.

It really does just make your head spin huh? Can you imagine? Here he had the Mother of All Sweetheart Deals with Glendale & he blew it. People arent stupid. Whats he gunna do when asked whats his take on why he couldnt make it work in Glendale & then proceeds to Trash Talk Weiers & everyone else? Trash Talk that he couldnt back up, handed his lunch in fact, then what seems publicly at least petulantly refuses to enter into the RFP claiming the Cities process is flawed, they dont understand the business were in.... So if your an official with Tempe, the State or wherever, youve read the columns & reports, your asking him these questions & he answers with such?Negatively, blaming everyone in Glendale for his problems.... sort of like if you were going from a Ford to a Toyota Dealership, the Salesman trash talks the competitions product & thats never good.... Then theres the little matter of financing. How much ya got for the down Buddy? And he replys with his usual Bafflegab about "investors lined up"? Who? How much? He cant even prove ownership on that GD Franchise & wants to trade that essentially as collateral on this here brand new $500M building, be handed the keys, we pay for freight, insurance, PDI, fuel, maintenance etc etc etc in perpetuity?.... Right. On... Where do we sign Tony?...

 

[blues10]

Parrot Sunnucks has, so it must be true...

Report: NHL boss Gary Bettman met with Valley, state officials about new Coyotes arena

Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...-boss-gary-bettman-met-with-valley-state.html

Full on unconfirms everywhere...

This is my favourite part. I am sure that will be approved by the end of June.

Coyotes officials are also looking at possible state legislation to create a special taxing district to help develop and finance a new arena and adjacent hotel development.

IF L'ill Gary was in Phoenix I do find it surprising that some politician, Athletic Director, Regent, Mayor, Tribe CEO or other such important persons did not take advantage of a photo-op.

 

[Fugu]

This whole Coyotes saga may be a deep sea of bull excrement, but on the list of things to worry about, Dave Tippett's future with the team is pretty damn well near the bottom. In fact, Tippett's trap-heavy system is one of the least entertaining things about this team and over on the Coyotes' board the calls have been long and loud for Tippett to be fired in favor of someone like Newell Brown, the assistant coach in charge of the power play and the only one of the current coaching staff to have made any sort of positive impact over the last couple of years.

Losing a coach who has failed to take his team to the playoffs in four years is not going to be a huge source of angst or Weltschmerz to the fanbase.

Not ennui?


I can't really blame Tippett though. It's what works in this watered-down NHL. You can only have that high flying, all-star level hockey if you have a ton of talent.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I can't really blame Tippett though. It's what works in this watered-down NHL. You can only have that high flying, all-star level hockey if you have a ton of talent.

Tippett's problem, IMO, is that his system is WAY too predictable. I mean, when even I in the stands can absolutely predict with near certainty how the team is going to break out of the defensive zone or try to gain the offensive zone, then it's a sure bet other teams will have that stuff scouted to the smallest details.

I'm not looking for a Stars-level high-flyer offense - just something a little more loose and fluid that will let guys like Domi, Duclair, Rieder, OEL, and eventually Strome have some wiggle room to create.

 

[Fugu]

Tippett's problem, IMO, is that his system is WAY too predictable. I mean, when even I in the stands can absolutely predict with near certainty how the team is going to break out of the defensive zone or try to gain the offensive zone, then it's a sure bet other teams will have that stuff scouted to the smallest details.

I'm not looking for a Stars-level high-flyer offense - just something a little more loose and fluid that will let guys like Domi, Duclair, Rieder, OEL, and eventually Strome have some wiggle room to create.

Babcock did the same thing with the Wings, although he started too soon-- back when they had far more talent than the last 2-3 years, for example. Coaches today will try to game the system so they can eek out as many wins as possible, and letting guys create or get looser usually means more risk is taken, which can backfire. So you stifle scoring from everyone, and hope you're the one with the extra goal at the end.

 

[kdb209]

I was Triggered by Ombushambles

 

[JimAnchower]

Hard to say whats real anymore. Nothing emanating from any official anywhere to confirm said meetings though it beggars belief to imagine there would be totally bogus reports of "meetings with officials" from accredited sources. Things are getting very strange. The only thing that makes any sense based on these patterns,on what LeBlanc's been stating and in moving the goalposts around, smoke machines on full seems straight out of the PR 101 Playbook. Publicly to be seen to be doing everything humanly possible to secure another site, building & partner to insure the clubs permanence in the market with vague & ethereal proclamations that are impossible to substantiate while.... Privately.... concluded last year when Glendale revoked the AMC and went RFP that that was it, game over. Everything thats followed pure theater. The only thing left they have to sell is False Hope and must do so in order to try & mitigate losses as much as possible with a short & sharp exit from the State while simultaneously blaming the COG for all of their problems.. and when these Castles in the Sky fail to materialize.. blame it all on Glendale. Not enough to victimize the City, they'll be trying to drive their Winnebago's over the corpse on their way out of town.

Perhaps a better question is why was Bettman brought in (assuming he was). If you bring in Bettman, you are doing it to bring some weight to the conversation. You will want him to glad hand and take pictures with politicians, to have interviews with the local press. You may even want him to act as the "bad cop" and make threats that the team could leave if the new arena isn't built. His presence brings focus to your issue and gets people talking about it. Having him talk to negotiators is a waste of time. And it doesn't do anything to end the speculation that the NHL is still running things behind the scenes. Maybe he wants to know how everything is going down and whether there is a chance at an arena announcement before the team/league has a decision to make about the future of the franchise.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

I found it for you DOM (48 min mark). Was the inspiration for this thread title.

So my 'suggestion' goes into megathread history. Archer yay.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Perhaps a better question is why was Bettman brought in (assuming he was). If you bring in Bettman, you are doing it to bring some weight to the conversation. You will want him to glad hand and take pictures with politicians, to have interviews with the local press. You may even want him to act as the "bad cop" and make threats that the team could leave if the new arena isn't built.

Any Bettman appearance that isn't heralded by trumpets and flashbulbs - reported ex post facto as it were - is in my mind a Luca Brasi/Bruno Tattaglia meet-and-greet in a darkened tavern where fishy things are discussed. The question is, which side is the one brandishing the knife to pin the hand and the garrotte to do the strangling?

 

[nina2001]

So even if they get a free arena they’ll still need some type of subsidy to break even (team has never turned a profit in Arizona) because there aren’t enough Coyote fans willing to pay NHL prices to keep them afloat.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

So even if they get a free arena they’ll still need some type of subsidy to break even (team has never turned a profit in Arizona) because there aren’t enough Coyote fans willing to pay NHL prices to keep them afloat.

They'll need a new arena with a favorable lease, and they'll need a good team that doesn't scrape the bottom of the standings every year.

Basically, they need the same thing as every other US team in the league.

 

[nina2001]

They'll need a new arena with a favorable lease, and they'll need a good team that doesn't scrape the bottom of the standings every year.

Basically, they need the same thing as every other US team in the league.

So you're telling me no US team has turned a profit during down years? I find that hard to believe.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

So you're telling me no US team has turned a profit during down years? I find that hard to believe.

Maybe the Rangers remain profitable during their worst years. Outside chance of the Bruins. But the rest of them experience profit and loss depending on team performance.

You say the Coyotes haven't turned a profit since they've been here, and that's true, but your reasoning for why is reductive and ignores a lot of context.

 

[Llama19]

Perhaps a better question is why was Bettman brought in (assuming he was). If you bring in Bettman, you are doing it to bring some weight to the conversation. You will want him to glad hand and take pictures with politicians, to have interviews with the local press. You may even want him to act as the "bad cop" and make threats that the team could leave if the new arena isn't built. His presence brings focus to your issue and gets people talking about it. Having him talk to negotiators is a waste of time. And it doesn't do anything to end the speculation that the NHL is still running things behind the scenes. Maybe he wants to know how everything is going down and whether there is a chance at an arena announcement before the team/league has a decision to make about the future of the franchise.

When Bettman, et al., came to Glendale to maneuver around the Open Meeting Law, it was front page news with pictures (see attachment)...

It seems highly unlikely that if these LeBluster(tm) meetings took place, there would have not been the same type of coverage...

 

[mesamonster]

This whole Coyotes saga may be a deep sea of bull excrement, but on the list of things to worry about, Dave Tippett's future with the team is pretty damn well near the bottom. In fact, Tippett's trap-heavy system is one of the least entertaining things about this team and over on the Coyotes' board the calls have been long and loud for Tippett to be fired in favor of someone like Newell Brown, the assistant coach in charge of the power play and the only one of the current coaching staff to have made any sort of positive impact over the last couple of years.

Losing a coach who has failed to take his team to the playoffs in four years is not going to be a huge source of angst or Weltschmerz to the fanbase.

Respectfully disagree! Without his leadership and respect amongst the players this team would have been in far worse shape. His trapping style is no doubt a trademark of his, however, he has had little offensive fire power over the years to play an up tempo offensive style. What does play into this discussion is the paltry payroll dollars he has been allocated by this group of clowns. year in year out he has been forced to play with one of the lowest payrolls in the league. My take, he has made a relatively tasteful lemonade out of lemons!

BTW, Newell Brown has been an assistant for a reason, his personality is not the type you would want for a head coach.

 

[Killion]

Perhaps a better question is why was Bettman brought in (assuming he was).... Maybe he wants to know how everything is going down and whether there is a chance at an arena announcement before the team/league has a decision to make about the future of the franchise.

Im going to "assume" he was in Arizona and did meet with officials of one kind or another if even the Secretary to a State Senator, Assistant City Manager or what have you but just sort of "along for the ride". Informal. Discussion entirely conceptual. Very early days. I simply cannot imagine this is all made up, pure fiction. The NHL can stoop lower than a snakes belly at times but this, no, cant see them completely fabricating such a story however, I can see how these meet & greets were likely setup & attended by Bettman so he could get some kind of a measure on just how "real" the possibilities might or might not be, what kind of timeline. So ya, I would say your last sentence there, agree with that Jim.