Phoenix CX: Le Hugh, LeBlanc, et La Ruse

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Glacial

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The NHL has allowed teams in the past to play in... let's say "sub-standard accommodations" while waiting for a new facility to be built.

If someone is willing to cover the costs incurred by the team while waiting for their new arena to be built where-ever, Bettman would let this team play in the middle of the desert with lawn chairs spread around for seating, if it meant the team stays in Phoenix.

That was my thought. If the team has nowhere to go, the NHL will bend the rules to make them fit the Coyotes' situation. They'll choose whatever venue makes them lose the least money, which is where attendance capacity/location, revenue streams, and rent factor into the equation.
 

Killion

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That was my thought. If the team has nowhere to go, the NHL will bend the rules to make them fit the Coyotes' situation.

Absolutely. Approach it as an Emergency Situation completely ignoring the fact that they themselves created the situation to begin with but of course... blaming the COG for their problems. And I have my doubts the NHL even wants to entertain such despite LeBlancs claims to be shopping around locally, even going so far as to hire a consultant. That its just a smokescreen. Canard. Red Herring. More mis-direct, providing false hope so the bottom doesnt completely fall out.
 

RxPens

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I actually think you are right about this. Except that "Someone willing to pay the costs" means either a deep-pocketed owner will to lose BIG$$$$, or a city willing to lose BIG$$$. Since there is no such owner, we are left with the possibility of a city.

What has actually happened here is this, and we have been talking about this for a long time....

1) Ever since bankruptcy, the league has not been opposed to moving the franchise. The league buying the team out of bankruptcy was a case of wanting to control WHO OWNS a team, not where it plays. Thus, NHL fought Balsillie in court.

2) Since losses in Glendale were large and a locally-based buyer not forthcoming, NHL sought means to see if Glendale really wanted the team. These were the 2 25M insurance payment years. Had Glendale refused, the team would have moved, and the NHL would have spun it like this, "The city didn't want us anymore...."

3) Glendale gave them the $$, so the team stayed. 2 years ago, when IA came back to the picture, it was more of the same.... "15M/yr + a 5-yeat out clause, or the team leaves". Again, had Glendale refused, the vans were coming. There was no talk then of going back downtown or playing elsewhere in the Valley.

4) Again, Glendale caved. Had they not, the spin would have been, "The city did not want us anymore...."

So, the pattern is this: The NHL will stay until they get a clear signal from the host city that they can use to blame the city for their departure.

Since Glendale has caused the 2013 AMULA to be amended to the city's favor, and since has moved to replace IA as Arena Manager, it seems clear that NHL is now getting the clear signal they want.

IF Glendale does contract with someone else starting next summer, the team will move, and the spin will be..."The city didn't want us anymore."

It's clear, really, if you look through the mists of the spin and see what actually has happened. The sad part is how few people (reporters included) will actually do that.

One could say that that signal has already been processed by the NHL. IA's business in the desert has become rather casual IMO (even if you don't already consider their attitude casual from day #1), and the public image battle seems to be the new war.

Originally Posted by JimAnchower
The problem I see is they are looking for a fast tracked timeline, with an answer coming in six months. This really isn't something that can be done in six months. Just last week, they were saying they had multiple options in the valley. But if you still have multiple options at this point, you don't have one that is very far along. They are all at the preliminary stages.

There just happens to be an 'option' set to open up in ~5 months (148 days, and 10 hours to be exact)... oh so conveniently prior to the NHL's typical spring 'deadline.' All too convenient IMO. Of course in order to believe that, you also have to subscribe to the theory that the whole expansion process was smoke and mirrors from the outset... to the point that 'there isn't any expansion money to be left on the table when there was none to begin with.' Nothing more than a ruse to inflate the relo prices, to the tune of 'why pay $X for a new untested base model when you could have this freshly broken in model with all the bells and whistles pre-installed for... oh... what did you say you were looking to spend?'.

Either way you slice it... regarding these other options in Phoenix... I think we are merely observing the dust settle on a play that's already been made at home plate. Heck, he's probably already sipping Gatorade in the dugout :laugh:
 

Llama19

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One could say that that signal has already been processed by the NHL. IA's business in the desert has become rather casual IMO (even if you don't already consider their attitude casual from day #1), and the public image battle seems to be the new war.

Casual? More like bohemian where someone else is paying for their lifestyle...

And, when has there not been a public image battle... :D

...Either way you slice it... regarding these other options in Phoenix... I think we are merely observing the dust settle on a play that's already been made at home plate. Heck, he's probably already sipping Gatorade in the dugout :laugh:

So true...the crowd will soon be leaving the stands, as the final financial 'score' is settled...
 

tony d

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And the saga continues for this team. Eventually the NHL cuts its losses here don't they?
 

Ugmo

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I heard some talk in the main Phoenix thread about the Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum being a possible landing spot, but the thing would be the oldest venue in the league by a mile, has no revenue-generating amenities, and is more than 1200 seats short of the league minimum. So they'd basically have to tear the place down and put it back up again to make it workable.

That place still exists? The place the Suns used to play in with Tom Chambers in the 1980s? Wow.
 

Killion

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That place still exists? The place the Suns used to play in with Tom Chambers in the 1980s? Wow.

You betcha. Original Saddledome. Home of the WHL, WHA & IHL Roadrunners. Thats where I woulda set up shop back in 96. Reno'd the joint.
 

OthmarAmmann

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Llama19

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See, I think that's where dirtyoldman is coming from...I guess it all depends on your definition of "shortly", but man.... You've had this stance for years.

Well, if Glendale had wised up sooner and stopped 'subsidizing,' this poor excuse of an 'ownership' group, 'shortly' would of happened sooner, too...

Now, 'shortly' is fast approaching, so LeBluster(tm) is running on 'borrowed' time...

P.S. Please quote my whole quote, or at least indicate that you have edited it...
 

aqib

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Well, if Glendale had wised up sooner and stopped 'subsidizing,' this poor excuse of an 'ownership' group, 'shortly' would of happened sooner, too...

Now, 'shortly' is fast approaching, so LeBluster(tm) is running on 'borrowed' time...

P.S. Please quote my whole quote, or at least indicate that you have edited it...

Its more a case of Glendale putting in a council that had nothing to do with Westgate.
 

Llama19

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Its more a case of Glendale putting in a council that had nothing to do with Westgate.

I believe that the Glendale electorate is slowly waking up, along with the council that is currently in place, but there is a long way still to go...
 

kihekah19*

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Well, if Glendale had wised up sooner and stopped 'subsidizing,' this poor excuse of an 'ownership' group, 'shortly' would of happened sooner, too...

Now, 'shortly' is fast approaching, so LeBluster(tm) is running on 'borrowed' time...

Yeah and if ifs and buts were candy and nuts.....
 

TheLegend

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One of the better articles out of Giblin I've read. At least he kept his antiCoyotes rhetoric out of it this time around ;)

So after 60 some odd rhetorical posts, what have we actually learned?? That SMG will need a different partner if they want to submit a bid with one.

Other than that........ Yaaaaaawwwwnnnñ.


BTW.... Hugh isn't a politician, K. He sells tires for a living. :sarcasm:

I believe that the Glendale electorate is slowly waking up, along with the council that is currently in place, but there is a long way still to go...

Given the size turnouts for voting in their elections, Llama. The electorate in Glendale are still in a coma.
 

MNNumbers

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One of the better articles out of Giblin I've read. At least he kept his antiCoyotes rhetoric out of it this time around ;)

So after 60 some odd rhetorical posts, what have we actually learned?? That SMG will need a different partner if they want to submit a bid with one.

Other than that........ Yaaaaaawwwwnnnñ.


BTW.... Hugh isn't a politician, K. He sells tires for a living. :sarcasm:

Legend,

I know you and I have disagreed a few times here. But, you are exactly right in your commentary here.

The ONLY thing useful in this thread (by useful I mean 'new information') is that the Cardinal organization won't partner with SMG. That means the SMG bid will be slightly less favorable to Glendale than 2 years ago, if SMG decides to bid again. (And, I can't see a reason they wouldn't. Not sure their bid will look like the previous one, though).
 

TheLegend

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Legend,

I know you and I have disagreed a few times here. But, you are exactly right in your commentary here.

The ONLY thing useful in this thread (by useful I mean 'new information') is that the Cardinal organization won't partner with SMG. That means the SMG bid will be slightly less favorable to Glendale than 2 years ago, if SMG decides to bid again. (And, I can't see a reason they wouldn't. Not sure their bid will look like the previous one, though).

MNN...

It's always been a case of we agree to disagree with us. I've learned much from your posts. :nod:

The article had me wondering about that Rojo/SMG bid. I think the original thought was SMG leading the bid with Rojo along for the ride. Now I' m wondering if it was actually the opposite??

I could also sèe SMG going it alone, but as I pointed out a while back Live Nation has nearly all the venues not named Gila River Arena locked up. With all the criticism of IA (nee Spectra) not cutting it with non-hockey events. Does SMG stand to do any better??
 

MNNumbers

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MNN...

It's always been a case of we agree to disagree with us. I've learned much from your posts. :nod:

The article had me wondering about that Rojo/SMG bid. I think the original thought was SMG leading the bid with Rojo along for the ride. Now I' m wondering if it was actually the opposite??

I could also sèe SMG going it alone, but as I pointed out a while back Live Nation has nearly all the venues not named Gila River Arena locked up. With all the criticism of IA (nee Spectra) not cutting it with non-hockey events. Does SMG stand to do any better??

Well, I have the bid right here......

The bid surely seems sponsored by SMG, because it has lots and lots of information about SMG on it - company officers and agents, and information in regard to their other arenas, so I think it very safe to say that it was an SMG bid, with certain joint portions with RoJo involved.

I am also looking at the part of the bid that describes their other business..... and this is what I see (assuming none of these have changed, of course....) as a possible tour...
NewOrleans
Baton Rouge
OKC or Tulsa or both
Wichita
Glendale
Long Beach
Stockton
etc

So, that's not a bad start.

And, to be honest, the way I really feel about it is like this:
IA took them to the cleaners on the 2013 AMULA. It doesn't matter how many NHEs were booked, that was a very unequal contract.
The present 6.5M, flat fee is still too much for Glendale to pay. And, right now, the city gets NOTHING back - it's a flat fee, so it doesn't matter to the city how many NHEs are booked (leaving off for a minute the sales tax from Westgate).

My honest thought is that it doesn't matter how full SMG can make the schedule, CoG will do better with SMG managing the place.

And, as to Westgate.... It makes no sense to me for the City to subsidize a hockey team in order to keep businesses there. The already built part of Westgate, like the bonds on GRA, are sunk cost. You can't get them back. And, then, the city will be better off financially with none of that (including no taxes from the businesses if they ALL close) than in trying to keep the whole thing alive through the Coyotes.

Others may disagree, but that is how it looks to me.
 

JimAnchower

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Well, I have the bid right here......

The bid surely seems sponsored by SMG, because it has lots and lots of information about SMG on it - company officers and agents, and information in regard to their other arenas, so I think it very safe to say that it was an SMG bid, with certain joint portions with RoJo involved.

I think SMG also led the bid as they have the facility management expertise. They probably went in with the Cardinals since they wanted to show they could be local as well and were already a part of the community. Now that relationship with the Cardinals has dissolved, they just won't be partnering with a local group. Unless they were also upset about no response last time, I think they will be submitting again.

I am also looking at the part of the bid that describes their other business..... and this is what I see (assuming none of these have changed, of course....) as a possible tour...
NewOrleans
Baton Rouge
OKC or Tulsa or both
Wichita
Glendale
Long Beach
Stockton
etc

The biggest reason I think SMG submits a bid is that they do need a major metropolitan area in the west. Glendale/Phoenix gives that list a top 15 city.
 

Llama19

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...The biggest reason I think SMG submits a bid is that they do need a major metropolitan area in the west. Glendale/Phoenix gives that list a top 15 city.

Their list of arenas is impressive...

To quote:

"SMG hosts more NCAA events than any other single facility or company in the country, and books entertainment as varied as the biggest concert tours, the Ringling Bros. Circus, and Professional Bull Riders. Our reputation for consistency and quality precedes us, which is why national promoters and agents often express a preference for booking with SMG-run arenas."

Source: http://smgworld.com/facility_type/arenas/
 

JimAnchower

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Joyce Clark has thoughts on where the Coyotes would play if they stay in Phoenix and leave Gila River Arena.

A few things:

* A new arena would be significantly more than $180M today. Probably closer to $500M (new arenas in Milwaukee, Detroit, and Sacramento are all about that or more)

* ASU is looking for a new or renovated arena, but probably a much smaller venue than what the Coyotes need (probably in the 10-12K capacity range)

* Problem for moving downtown with the Suns probably isn't with available dates to play games, but what Suns would want in rent, percentage of HRR, and who would get the choice dates. Coyotes may have to play more games on less appealing days of the week than in Glendale.

http://joyceclarkunfiltered.com/coyotes-in-a-pickle/
 

The Feckless Puck

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That place still exists? The place the Suns used to play in with Tom Chambers in the 1980s? Wow.

Yep. I used to watch Paul Westphal, Alvan Adams, and Walter Davis play there. Never got to go to a Roadrunners game there, though.
 

Llama19

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Joyce Clark has thoughts on where the Coyotes would play if they stay in Phoenix and leave Gila River Arena.

A few things:

* A new arena would be significantly more than $180M today. Probably closer to $500M (new arenas in Milwaukee, Detroit, and Sacramento are all about that or more)

Yep...

* ASU is looking for a new or renovated arena, but probably a much smaller venue than what the Coyotes need (probably in the 10-12K capacity range)

Will not work for LeBluster's(tm) Coyotes, next!

* Problem for moving downtown with the Suns probably isn't with available dates to play games, but what Suns would want in rent, percentage of HRR, and who would get the choice dates. Coyotes may have to play more games on less appealing days of the week than in Glendale.

http://joyceclarkunfiltered.com/coyotes-in-a-pickle/

Not a viable option for LeBluster(tm) as he needs every coin under the couch cushions and then some...

Tick...tock...tick...tock...
 
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