Phoenix CX: Le Hugh, LeBlanc, et La Ruse

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GuelphStormer

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How hard is it for them to send out a letter to those that didn't win the bid? In particular, the Cardinals who also reside in your town. Heck, give them a phone call, whatever. You want to keep a good communication line open.
yeah, if true, that was pretty disrespectful and unprofessional of the City.

fwiw, i quite liked the article itself. was pretty well written.
 

XX

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Glendale Vice Mayor Ian Hugh said he doesn't know why the Coyotes and Cardinals are opting out of the bidding process. Most members of the City Council assumed the Coyotes, at least, would be part of the process.

Subsidies wanted and all that jazz, but really, these council members aren't exactly sharp.
 

Killion

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Subsidies wanted and all that jazz, but really, these council members aren't exactly sharp.

... ya, claiming that they dont understand why IA wouldnt be bidding, he's either deliberately obfuscating, prevaricating or... he genuinely doesnt understand that the lease, control of the building must be enjoined with the franchise capturing all revenue streams... if he doesnt understand that then he should be told, filled in however I find it impossible to think that he isnt fully aware of that by now. he'd simply have to be. they all would. so its either deliberate subterfuge, a misdirect, or this guys a moron.
 

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so its either deliberate subterfuge, a misdirect, or this guys a moron.

Hugh is not a moron. He's doing what Leblanc's doing - waging a war of public opinion. "We gave them every opportunity to give us a reasonable offer!" "We would love to see them stay! We love the Coyotes!"

I'm not saying Hugh is anything like Leblanc - the latter is a classic snake-oil salesman, while the former is simply a classic politician - but they're definitely fighting the same battle with similar weapons.
 

Fugu

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Glendale Vice Mayor Ian Hugh said he doesn't know why the Coyotes and Cardinals are opting out of the bidding process. Most members of the City Council assumed the Coyotes, at least, would be part of the process.
Subsidies wanted and all that jazz, but really, these council members aren't exactly sharp.




There can really be only one reason why they wouldn't bid during the RFP process.
 

Glacial

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Yep, most likely nothing more than a beautiful pipe dream to utilize that wonderful old barn. :cry: Unless...... the NHL somehow allows it short term? :)

That was one of my thoughts. If they are set on expansion for Vegas and seem to be eyeing a Coyotes to Seattle relocation, contingent on Seattle getting a new arena (which has a chance of getting done this geological epoch :laugh: ), no avenues would be open for the Coyotes to go anywhere (far) next year. It feels like staying in Glendale is the past of least resistance, getting whatever deal they can under the most favorable terms they can. If the terms are unfavorable, they may need the Vet to be their Plan B, especially as if the new Gila River Arena manager demands they pay rent, whatnot, sharing an arena with the Suns would have the same problem with a greater magnitude. The Vet would probably be easier to drop the Coyotes into schedule-wise rather than Talking Stick.

If Phoenix or Arizona doesn't want the metro to lose a team, they could try and wedge the Coyotes into Talking Stick, but one would think the Suns would throw a fit and might use their favored team status (i.e. they're much more popular, the state's longest-established pro team [in the state. Cardinals go back much farther]) and they do have potential leverage in linking not forcing the Coyotes to shack up with them with getting a new arena built in Phoenix as opposed to a reservation or a suburb. The Coyotes/Leblanc might find more receptive ears in one vs. the other. If Wiki is accurate, Talking Stick is owned by Phoenix and run by Phoenix Arena Development L.P. (whoever that comprises) while the Vet is O&O by an Arizona state board. So, Phoenix might be tied in with placating the Suns to a degree, affecting Talking Stick, but the state has no such restrictions on the Coyotes potentially going to the vet.

It'll be interesting to see how everything plays out. In terms of state venues I think are probable for the Coyotes playing next year (continent on the NHL not deciding on relocation):
Gila River Arena > AZ Veterans Memorial Coliseum > Talking Stick Arena
 

JimAnchower

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Looks that way, hopefully they can see brighter days in Phoenix

The problem I see is they are looking for a fast tracked timeline, with an answer coming in six months. This really isn't something that can be done in six months. Just last week, they were saying they had multiple options in the valley. But if you still have multiple options at this point, you don't have one that is very far along. They are all at the preliminary stages.
 

GuelphStormer

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just for fun, assuming 4 years to completion of a new arena; one season remaining in Gila River as a tenant and then three seasons playing out of Talking Stick ... im gonna peg the hypothetical total operating losses at $200M ... (which, graciously, Im suggesting would only be an additional $20M in losses per year over the current $30M losses)

so, who's gonna pay that $200M to keep the team in town, Tony?
 

Llama19

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...It'll be interesting to see how everything plays out. In terms of state venues I think are probable for the Coyotes playing next year (continent on the NHL not deciding on relocation):
Gila River Arena > AZ Veterans Memorial Coliseum > Talking Stick Arena

Maybe > Nope > Nope


The problem I see is they are looking for a fast tracked timeline, with an answer coming in six months. This really isn't something that can be done in six months. Just last week, they were saying they had multiple options in the valley...

Only LeBluster(tm) has been saying that...

just for fun, assuming 4 years to completion of a new arena; one season remaining in Gila River as a tenant and then three seasons playing out of Talking Stick ... im gonna peg the hypothetical total operating losses at $200M ... (which, graciously, Im suggesting would only be an additional $20M in losses per year over the current $30M losses)

so, who's gonna pay that $200M to keep the team in town, Tony?

No one, absolutely no one...
 

Llama19

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While you are on the side of logic, you've been there all along and you've been wrong at every turn. Why is the point where that changes?

Please point out where I have 'been wrong at every turn'...

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cbcwpg

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I heard some talk in the main Phoenix thread about the Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum being a possible landing spot, but the thing would be the oldest venue in the league by a mile, has no revenue-generating amenities, and is more than 1200 seats short of the league minimum.

The NHL has allowed teams in the past to play in... let's say "sub-standard accommodations" while waiting for a new facility to be built.

If someone is willing to cover the costs incurred by the team while waiting for their new arena to be built where-ever, Bettman would let this team play in the middle of the desert with lawn chairs spread around for seating, if it meant the team stays in Phoenix.
 

cbcwpg

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http://www.azcentral.com/story/news.../76564718/?from=global&sessionKey=&autologin=

“I’m not going to waste my time on it. I have a business to run. I have partners to answer to and I have a fiduciary duty to find out what our alternatives are, because we’re not going to take a deal that doesn’t make sense,†LeBlanc said.

**

Replace "make sense" with "give us $15MM/yr in a direct subsidy and allow us to retain all revenues generated by the facility" ... then we have what LeBlanc really means.

I hope the Suns can interpret LeBlanc speak before getting into a deal with the Coyotes.
 

MNNumbers

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The NHL has allowed teams in the past to play in... let's say "sub-standard accommodations" while waiting for a new facility to be built.

If someone is willing to cover the costs incurred by the team while waiting for their new arena to be built where-ever, Bettman would let this team play in the middle of the desert with lawn chairs spread around for seating, if it meant the team stays in Phoenix.

I actually think you are right about this. Except that "Someone willing to pay the costs" means either a deep-pocketed owner will to lose BIG$$$$, or a city willing to lose BIG$$$. Since there is no such owner, we are left with the possibility of a city.

What has actually happened here is this, and we have been talking about this for a long time....

1) Ever since bankruptcy, the league has not been opposed to moving the franchise. The league buying the team out of bankruptcy was a case of wanting to control WHO OWNS a team, not where it plays. Thus, NHL fought Balsillie in court.

2) Since losses in Glendale were large and a locally-based buyer not forthcoming, NHL sought means to see if Glendale really wanted the team. These were the 2 25M insurance payment years. Had Glendale refused, the team would have moved, and the NHL would have spun it like this, "The city didn't want us anymore...."

3) Glendale gave them the $$, so the team stayed. 2 years ago, when IA came back to the picture, it was more of the same.... "15M/yr + a 5-yeat out clause, or the team leaves". Again, had Glendale refused, the vans were coming. There was no talk then of going back downtown or playing elsewhere in the Valley.

4) Again, Glendale caved. Had they not, the spin would have been, "The city did not want us anymore...."

So, the pattern is this: The NHL will stay until they get a clear signal from the host city that they can use to blame the city for their departure.

Since Glendale has caused the 2013 AMULA to be amended to the city's favor, and since has moved to replace IA as Arena Manager, it seems clear that NHL is now getting the clear signal they want.

IF Glendale does contract with someone else starting next summer, the team will move, and the spin will be..."The city didn't want us anymore."

It's clear, really, if you look through the mists of the spin and see what actually has happened. The sad part is how few people (reporters included) will actually do that.
 

Dirty Old Man

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While you are on the side of logic, you've been there all along and you've been wrong at every turn. Why is the point where that changes?

Please point out where I have 'been wrong at every turn'...

:laugh: The Coyotes have remained in Arizona throughout this whole ordeal to date. A better question would be when have you ever been *right*?
 

Killion

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While you are on the side of logic, you've been there all along and you've been wrong at every turn. Why is the point where that changes?

Please point out where I have 'been wrong at every turn'...

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:laugh: The Coyotes have remained in Arizona throughout this whole ordeal to date. A better question would be when have you ever been *right*?

Or any of us, anyone. Key word in rt's post = logic. Whole situation defies logic & continues to confound. Parallel Universe. Upside Down World.
 

Llama19

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:laugh: The Coyotes have remained in Arizona throughout this whole ordeal to date. A better question would be when have you ever been *right*?

The Coyotes have remained in the arena, only by the grace of Glendale's 'subsidies'...

Now that the 'arena management' will no longer be by LeBluster(tm) and the IceArizona group...
they can continue 'playing' in the arena under a new arena manager, if they so choose...

However, that seems very unlikely, based on LeBluster's(tm) comments...

We'll see who/if another city will 'grace' the team with a 'subsidy' or outright buyout...

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Dirty Old Man

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Or any of us, anyone. Key word in rt's post = logic. Whole situation defies logic & continues to confound. Parallel Universe. Upside Down World.

Some things can seem random until you obtain the key. Trouble is, no one here has that key (although some seem to think they do). That's the thing about the social sciences, they're not as science-y...
 

Ernie

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I do quite enjoy watching a pro sports franchise being told to stuff it by a host city.

We need more of this.
 
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