Phoenix CV: CoG went full-on haboob, man. Never go full-on haboob.

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Ciao

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Entirely possible, yes, very plausible theory in fact. Most disputes of this kind are settled out of court (98% I believe the #). The Coyotes & the NHL could well lose this case despite their earlier posturing, and even if it was a nuisance case/suit/issue you really dont wanna be going down the road & airing all kinds of dirty laundry in public. You dont want the fate of your club and the right of determination & location left to a 3rd party. This is why your hiring $400+ an hour Attorneys. To settle such out of court before you lose complete control. So sure, what your suggesting a very possible outcome. The COG has scheduled a Meeting for this Tuesday (July 14th) which is highly unusual as their on Summer Break. Whats also curious is that IA apparently cancelled the scheduled Disclosures & Depositions which were to take place prior to to the July 31st Court Date last week so could well be some sort of counter-offer has been tabled; or perhaps negotiations initiated that require instruction from the Mayor & Council. Just speculating here of course, but sure....

I've been busy with other things and haven't followed this for a few weeks, and I'm surprised that IA would cancel depositions.

I think IA is likely to get the interim injunction it wants, but to do so it has to pursue its case. If you really want the kind of relief IA is asking for, and which is within reach, you don't go cancelling depositions at this stage unless there is a really important reason to so.

I'm not able to read the tea leaves here, but this bit of news stands out.
 

Fugu

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Entirely possible, yes, very plausible theory in fact. Most disputes of this kind are settled out of court (98% I believe the #). The Coyotes & the NHL could well lose this case despite their earlier posturing, and even if it was a nuisance case/suit/issue you really dont wanna be going down the road & airing all kinds of dirty laundry in public. You dont want the fate of your club and the right of determination & location left to a 3rd party. This is why your hiring $400+ an hour Attorneys. To settle such out of court before you lose complete control. So sure, what your suggesting a very possible outcome. The COG has scheduled a Meeting for this Tuesday (July 14th) which is highly unusual as their on Summer Break. Whats also curious is that IA apparently cancelled the scheduled Disclosures & Depositions which were to take place prior to to the July 31st Court Date last week so could well be some sort of counter-offer has been tabled; or perhaps negotiations initiated that require instruction from the Mayor & Council. Just speculating here of course, but sure....

I've been busy with other things and haven't followed this for a few weeks, and I'm surprised that IA would cancel depositions.

I think IA is likely to get the interim injunction it wants, but to do so it has to pursue its case. If you really want the kind of relief IA is asking for, and which is within reach, you don't go cancelling depositions at this stage unless there is a really important reason to so.

I'm not able to read the tea leaves here, but this bit of news stands out.


Yes, do tell. IA cancelled their depositions?
 

BattleBorn

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Yes, do tell. IA cancelled their depositions?

Someone PMed me that they did and I'd just assumed they were trolling me, as people so often like to do when it comes to the Coyotes via PM.

Surely something official would have come out through the press if that had actually happened, right?
 

Killion

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It calls to question whether Leblanc/Ice Arizona ever intended to put for an honest effort to lay hockey roots in Arizona...

Yes it does. And what Im looking at are tourists. They havent done a damn thing of any consequence since taking over.
Treading water only this time, Glendales run over them with the outboard. Prop's lodged in their foreheads. Concussed.

..this bit of news stands out.

Games afoot Watson.
 

Fugu

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Someone PMed me that they did and I'd just assumed they were trolling me, as people so often like to do when it comes to the Coyotes via PM.

Surely something official would have come out through the press if that had actually happened, right?


I'd heard about this as well, behind the scenes, but wonder if Killion has decided to go public. :popcorn:
 

Glacial

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I'd heard about this as well, behind the scenes, but wonder if Killion has decided to go public. :popcorn:

Might this tidbit be linked with the executive session? (i.e. might point B have been triggered by point A and we're only now hearing about A after knowing about B for several days?)

Well, seems like we have the starting topic of Phoenix CVI, right on time too. :laugh:
 

Killion

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Yes, do tell. IA cancelled their depositions?

Someone PMed me that they did and I'd just assumed they were trolling me, as people so often like to do when it comes to the Coyotes via PM.

Surely something official would have come out through the press if that had actually happened, right?

I'd heard about this as well, behind the scenes, but wonder if Killion has decided to go public. :popcorn:

Might this tidbit be linked with the executive session? (i.e. might point B have been triggered by point A and we're only now hearing about A after knowing about B for several days?)

Well, seems like we have the starting topic of Phoenix CVI, right on time too. :laugh:

Bolded, yes, dots connect, and yes, I dismissed it initially as rumor however after a bit of a fact finding mission, seems legit. If not, easily dispelled. Blind alley. Dont think so though and yes, a plausible explanation for Glendale calling for an Executive Session Meeting tomorrow. We'll see. I think its important that we here at hf consider everything for the purposes of discussion. Could well be that from the get~go as many have suspected Glendale taking this action to "give the appearance" for political reasons as doing the right thing as opposed to actually carrying through with litigation. We just dont know.
But... that rumor, seems to have legs. Caveat emptor.
 

JimAnchower

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Dec 8, 2012
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LeBlanc's statements at the town hall meeting seemed to indicate IA may be more receptive to negotiation than before. So the key questions are who called whom? Is the COG only looking for a little relief from the AMF or did IA realize Glendale's case is a little stronger than they previously thought?
 

Killion

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LeBlanc's statements at the town hall meeting seemed to indicate IA may be more receptive to negotiation than before. So the key questions are who called whom? Is the COG only looking for a little relief from the AMF or did IA realize Glendale's case is a little stronger than they previously thought?

Wild guess, but Big Daddy Bettman probably called up Tony and told him this ends right now. Cant have a situation like this, everything blowing up in your faces, you & Grant Woods mouthing off in front of mic's & cameras'. Big Guns from New York City on the way. Nice job idiot.... And while no fan of GB or the NHL power brokers, Bettman/Daly cant be expected to Babysit these neophytes 24/7. Pretty clear LeBlanc & IA were playing fast & loose with Glendale, started running when they still havent learned how to crawl. Mayor Jerry Weiers & Vice-Mayor Ian Hugh along with the other 3 Council Members who voted to void the agreement could very well be playing games, head-trip on on LeBlanc & IA/NHL. You take us for granted? Guess what? BAM! Now lets talk shall we? Just how far they retreat from that $15M, what they get out of this who knows but at least they can tell their constituencies they tried if even the effort completely disingenuous, a facade, dont actually care, just tax dollars anyway, see ya.
 

BattleBorn

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Bolded, yes, dots connect, and yes, I dismissed it initially as rumor however after a bit of a fact finding mission, seems legit. If not, easily dispelled. Blind alley. Dont think so though and yes, a plausible explanation for Glendale calling for an Executive Session Meeting tomorrow. We'll see. I think its important that we here at hf consider everything for the purposes of discussion. Could well be that from the get~go as many have suspected Glendale taking this action to "give the appearance" for political reasons as doing the right thing as opposed to actually carrying through with litigation. We just dont know.
But... that rumor, seems to have legs. Caveat emptor.

Good. Hope Glendale gets IA to the table and ends this period of my life in hockey, one way or the other.

I will say, I was much happier when I was getting a team in my city for 16-17, though.:laugh:

ETA: or even 15-16 if the rumors are to be believed.
 

CasualFan

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The Coyotes won't settle because they fear losing this case. They might settle because the economic impact of a settlement might be better in the long run for the coyotes because of the impact on their business from this dispute. Being in the middle of disputes, even frivolous ones like this one, is never good for business or perception. I doubt the Coyotes settle, but if they do, it will be a minor change to the agreement in order to put this behind them and for the COG to save some face. Maybe that is the goal of the new members of the COG anyway to get some sort of change to the agreement. I think everyone would be happy then, but it will be window dressing at best.

Well, first off, the Coyotes basically asked the court to treat this as a frivolous matter in their original TRO hearing. It didn't work. The court rejected the Coyotes suggested course on the case. Maybe the judge got it wrong and you have it right?

If I'm following the gist of your post, the Coyotes might settle for a minor change to the agreement because that might be better economically than fighting a frivolous case that they do not fear losing. That doesn't seem to make much sense. Wouldn't Glendale have to give the Coyotes something pretty valuable in the settlement? If theres slim and none chance the city can win the case, what could possibly be better economically in the long run for the Coyotes than $200MM+ in damages? The team doesn't make a profit. This would be the biggest windfall in the history of the franchise. If the case is like you say, there can't be that much bad perception but they're just going to settle?

That's probably why it's good to talk these things out and see where the gaps in logic are.
 

Killion

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Good. Hope Glendale gets IA to the table and ends this period of my life in hockey, one way or the other.

Unfortunately..... Ive had the need to hire some serious Attorneys in my day and yes, if you can avoid D&D/Trial, thats what your aiming for. Most cases settled before it really hits the fan. This situation however, no matter what message Glendale sends IA & the NHL, far from over. Unless you believe in miracles, its not going to get any better however, I have hard time buying quite specifically Mayor Jerry's tough guy Clint Eastwood meets Ernest Hemingway act. This is a career politician, someone who feels beyond entitled to their entitlements and if that means the next generation is still paying for his large life, as in paying it forward, so be it. Jerry'll be dead. Why would he care? Dont matter when your dead. Just another head on the wall. His. Vanity project.
 

madhi19

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Unfortunately..... Ive had the need to hire some serious Attorneys in my day and yes, if you can avoid D&D/Trial, thats what your aiming for. Most cases settled before it really hits the fan. This situation however, no matter what message Glendale sends IA & the NHL, far from over. Unless you believe in miracles, its not going to get any better however, I have hard time buying quite specifically Mayor Jerry's tough guy Clint Eastwood meets Ernest Hemingway act. This is a career politician, someone who feels beyond entitled to their entitlements and if that means the next generation is still paying for his large life, as in paying it forward, so be it. Jerry'll be dead. Why would he care? Dont matter when your dead. Just another head on the wall. His. Vanity project.

I don't see how the city can back down on anything at this point. What are they gonna do? Live with the loss for three more years, and assume the blame for a deal that they just repudiated. Their end game need to be a divorce from IA or a new deal at half the current AMF. IA end game need to be either a divorce from Glendale, or the same AMF they use to have.

Smart money is on a delayed divorce. IA admit the deal is void, in exchange Glendale does not go after the cash they already paid. One year lease with AMF at half or they move now.
 

TheLegend

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I'd heard about this as well, behind the scenes, but wonder if Killion has decided to go public. :popcorn:

:laugh:


If you want something else to add to the suspense. Last Tuesday (the 7th), during the prospect camp LeBlanc and some of the other co-owners were in attendance. During a break while they resurfaced the ice I saw Leblanc coming back inside on his cellphone when he met up with two of the other owners, and the three went off to a corner to listen in to the phone conversation.

As much as I wanted to be a fly on the wall at that moment, I didn't want to press my luck. Because I knew this was the day depositions were to begin.

I guess I need to learn lip reading. :)
 

Killion

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I don't see how the city can back down on anything at this point.

Oh, and why not madhi? Your post is full of as much conjecture & speculation as my suggestion that this entire situation is little more than high fiction and theater to force IA back to the table with an act of legal ambush... sabotage. You really believe Weiers & the rest of them miraculously grew a spine overnight, gunna try & take IA/NHL to the mat?

I guess I need to learn lip reading. :)

Somethings goin on, heavy lifting behind the scenes.
 

GF

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Nov 4, 2012
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Not going to D&D is what made sense since day 1.

Now the likely options are:
-IA agrees to much less favorable multi-year AMF
-the CoG agrees to one year lease with IA to let the Hobbit sort this mess out
-team moves, proving the "false" rumor of the NY post right

:popcorn:
 

Ciao

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Unfortunately..... Ive had the need to hire some serious Attorneys in my day and yes, if you can avoid D&D/Trial, thats what your aiming for. Most cases settled before it really hits the fan. This situation however, no matter what message Glendale sends IA & the NHL, far from over. Unless you believe in miracles, its not going to get any better however, I have hard time buying quite specifically Mayor Jerry's tough guy Clint Eastwood meets Ernest Hemingway act. This is a career politician, someone who feels beyond entitled to their entitlements and if that means the next generation is still paying for his large life, as in paying it forward, so be it. Jerry'll be dead. Why would he care? Dont matter when your dead. Just another head on the wall. His. Vanity project.

This is so true, Killion. The best lawyers are the ones that keep their clients out of court.

I could easily see the court issuing an interim injunction before the end of the summer, but after that I have a hard time imagining this case would ever go to trial.

If your information about the cancellation of depositions is correct, then it's probably a long-shot to have the interim motion heard either.

It's worth bearing in mind that any orders made so far have barely scratched the surface. It merely represents the court saying, "Let's pause and take a breath while we have time to make considered arguments based on admissible evidence as to what should happen while this case is waiting for trial." The motion this summer is just an interim step pending trial of the main action.

If the NHL has other plans that can be implemented for the 2015-16 season, it would make no sense to continue with the application for an interim injunction.

However, if the NHL needs to slow things down to put something in place for 2016-17, I'm pretty sure it would get all the assurances it needs to start and finish the 2016-17 season in Glendale, regardless of who has the upper hand on the eventual outcome of the lawsuit.

And, mind you, if IA fully intends to stay in the driver's seat and continue to operate the franchise in Glendale indefinitely, it would make the most sense to come to some kind of agreement with COG that resolves their differences. It's nearly impossible to do business on an ongoing basis when you're at war with an important business partner. It brings to mind my very first class of Commercial and Consumer Law in law school 35 years ago. The professor wrote in chalk on the board "Good businessmen don't sue each other." He then explained this at length to the effect that they will take a loss, see psychologists and do pretty much anything to avoid legal action because as long as the business relationship is ongoing it is almost always more valuable than the substance of the dispute. He said the exceptions are usually when the ongoing business relationship has already come to and then they can air their grievances in court to their heart's content, and then he said "That pretty much wraps up the commercial side of the course -- now let's talk about consumer-protection law!"

So, to my mind, the delay or termination of the proceedings would be an important but indecipherable signal. It could point to the sudden withdrawal of the Coyotes from the venue, or it could signal a mending of fences to foster an ongoing business relationship. From a legal standpoint, one is just as likely as the other.
 

Killion

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This is so true, Killion. The best lawyers are the ones that keep their clients out of court.... So, to my mind, the delay or termination of the proceedings would be an important but indecipherable signal. It could point to the sudden withdrawal of the Coyotes from the venue, or it could signal a mending of fences to foster an ongoing business relationship. From a legal standpoint, one is just as likely as the other.

Precisely. A wise old Lawyer once told me just that, or rather explained it to me over lots & lots of expensive booze at the old Park Plaza (now the Park Hyatt) Hotel's Rooftop Lounge over many nights, months, years down there at Avenue Road & Bloor years ago. Grand old Gentleman. Had been one of the leading Prosecutors at Nuremberg, guest lecturer at Osgoode etc, head of one of the largest, oldest & most prestigious corporate law firms in Canada (or the US for that matter). Little did he know that passing on bits & bites, orts, a little bit of information here & there to me was a dangerous thing, particularly as at the time his firm represented me...... hey... wait now... he did know... S.O.B..... set me up.... Bastid. :(
 

aqib

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Feb 13, 2012
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LOL If you have HBO watch Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. He does a bit on sports stadiums and it features the Glendale Council meeting.
 

KingLB

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LOL If you have HBO watch Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. He does a bit on sports stadiums and it features the Glendale Council meeting.

Glendale actually comes out looking not bad all things considered....(Cinnci)
 
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