Phoenix CIV: May be time to put the band back together ...

[Glacial]

Is a haboob in this case just a polite way of saying ****-storm?

Put haboob in an image search engine. I just did for demonstration and got loads of images like this...

The more you know...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haboob



Feels like it's now an interesting game of chicken... Who blinks first? Though more like, does IceArizona blink (because I don't think Glendale will blink here) or do they stay the course and take the potential damage if it unfolds against them?

 

[DyerMaker66*]

Phoenix CV:

This is the greatest gif of all-time.

 

[aqib]

The key word here is the city WAS willing to pay $6 million for an arena manager, I don't think they'd still be willing to pay that now. They've gotten smarter. The $6 million number always struck me as willful stupidity. They would blissfully assume that was a real number because Hocking said so, despite the evidence of the RFP's from real companies that indicated the city could do far better than lose $6 million a year.

The $6 million was really only step 1 to getting the IA deal approved. Before you can convince a city that spending $15 million to maybe get back $9 million was a good idea, you had to first convince them that the alternative was to "lose" $6 million by paying that to an arena manager (who would apparently generate $0 in income for the city).

Chances are, $6 million is no longer the starting point.

So here is what I am wondering about. Since 2 of the big arena managers also own NHL teams and a lot of the other arena managers are partners with NHL teams are there potential anti-trust implications?

 

[CasualFan]

Without commenting on the merits of Glendale's case...

I would not be surprised if IA doesn't come to the table with something, or at least engage in informal settlement discussions before July 31st. If IA is not able to get an injunction, or if the court raises the bond substantially to cover the next year's worth of payments made by the City while under injunction, then I could see IA entering into serious talks to settle with the City.

Also without any further comments on merit, I don't know if there's already mandatory ADR Conf in az civil procedure but I am curious to see what the trial judges appetite is to potentially have to rule on this and if there will be ordered mediation and, if so, at what point. I'm pretty sure IA already established there's no compulsory arbitration required though.

Fugu, Re: Dobbs. I think she's probably referring to Dobbs Handbook; seems like she's saying that restitution/compensation isn't an available remedy for this matter.

 

[madhi19]

Put haboob in an image search engine. I just did for demonstration and got loads of images like this...

The more you know...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haboob



Feels like it's now an interesting game of chicken... Who blinks first? Though more like, does IceArizona blink (because I don't think Glendale will blink here) or do they stay the course and take the potential damage if it unfolds against them?

Kralizec, the typhoon struggle at the end of the universe! Yes this is how long this saga will eventually last. lolll

 

[MNNumbers]

Who do you think will be deposed by either side?

And, will that list be made public?

If so, When?

 

[Llama19]

...Feels like it's now an interesting game of chicken... Who blinks first? Though more like, does IceArizona blink (because I don't think Glendale will blink here) or do they stay the course and take the potential damage if it unfolds against them?

Glendale is not blinking first...

 

[Ciao]

I thought the judge did a pretty good job today. She was responsive to the issues but did no more than absolutely necessary to preserve the status quo pending the hearing for an injunction. A light touch like that is always a good thing in a judge -- she was neither heavy-handed nor indecisive.

Beauty of a call by CF and perhaps others who predicted the $1-million bond/escrow as a pro-rated share of the current AMF payment. I hadn't seen that coming. I had thought pretty much the whole amount would go into escrow, or not, but I can see this is a better result. It just tides the court over to the July/August injunction hearing when with better evidence and a more complete process the court can draw a picture with heavier lines.

I haven't seen a transcript, video or much of a play-by-play, but it sounds like the "you already decided that" and "no material change of circumstance" arguments didn't gain much traction and I'm not surprised. They both jumped out at me as completely out of place at this stage of the proceeding.

What a terrific spectator sport

 

[Evil Doctor]

LOL... I read the OP for the other thread before I posted here. But I meant, ****-storm in the case of the Coyotes,... not the actual storm taking place in the areas around Phoenix.

Or maybe it is dust... dust of a long-dead carcass blowing around.

The original quote (which I'm paraphrasing since I have absolutely no energy to go back a review the recording of the TRO hearing last week to find the exact wording) was uttered by the Coyotes attorney, "This isn't some storm cloud, this is a full-on haboob." I had to look it up on the internet to find out what it meant, and absolutely loved the poetry of it...

 

[Ciao]

. . .
I really don't know how this will shake out, particularly because I don't know how much doubt the City can throw up to establish that there isn't a substantial likelihood the IA will prevail on the merits.

Putting the legal issues aside, if I am the judge I am reluctant to not enter an injunction, the absence of which throws everything into chaos. But, I also would want money available if Glendale does prove its case. There has been no real discussion of whether the City gets damages, disgorgement of the entire contract amount, disgorgement of what passed through to Tindall and Frosoni, or exactly what financial relief the City may get if the contract is voided under 38-511. It puts the judge in a difficult position.

Going way out on a limb without the benefit of seeing the evidence and the briefing, I am going to speculate the judge enters an injunction, but makes IA increase its bond substantially. JMO.

I think this is very solid prediction of something that's well within the range of likely outcomes.

I don't know Arizona law in particular, but most jurisdictions look for (i) a strong prima facae case on the part of a party seeking an interim injunction; (ii) irreparable harm that can't be compensated in damages if an injection were not issued; (iii) the balance of convenience favoring an injunction; and (iv) the ability of the party obtaining an injunction to indemnify the other side if the claim is eventually dismissed. Reading between the lines, it sounds like Arizona law is similar.

I agree with you, goyotes, that in this case the judge would likely err on the side of caution by issuing an injuction with or without a strong prima facae case. Often that criterion gets watered down to something resembling the existence of a triable issue, and that certainly exists. The size and duration of the contract and the absence of authoritative jurisprudence indicate that there is a fairly unpredictable result that could eventually overturned on appeal no matter the outcome. All of that suggests preservation of the status quo, which would include sufficient security to protect the interests of the defendant.

I have no opinion on what position the parties will take in negotiations, if there are any negotiations, but I do think goyotes has picked up the scent of where the interim injunction application is headed.

 

[danishh]

The original quote (which I'm paraphrasing since I have absolutely no energy to go back a review the recording of the TRO hearing last week to find the exact wording) was uttered by the Coyotes attorney, "This isn't some storm cloud, this is a full-on haboob." I had to look it up on the internet to find out what it meant, and absolutely loved the poetry of it...

the ability to use haboob properly in a sentence is pretty damn impressive.


anyways, reasonable judgement, another month till this progresses, looking more and more like this is going to be drawn out and will last at least until the end of the summer, if not into the season. Probably a safe to say the yotes are going to stick around for 15-16.

 

[TheLegend]

Posting this for Whileee........ From that evil Coyotes hack, Craig Morgan.

Includes follow up comments from Monica Lindstrom whom every was following this morning.

http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/story/Arizona-coyotes-judge-orders-glendale-to-make-quarterly-payment-062915

 

[TheLegend]

Glendale is not blinking first...

They already blinked when they admitted they only wanted to renegotiate the lease.

 

[cbcwpg]

They already blinked when they admitted they only wanted to renegotiate the lease.

An "obscure loophole" that IA knew was in the agreement, knew that one day Glendale could use it, and then went out and hired the people that could specifically allow Glendale to use it.

I honestly have a hard time figuring out which side has less intelligence. In the race to stupidity they are both giving it their all.

 

[Slashers98]

From the Morgan article:

While the ruling appeared to tilt in the Coyotes' favor, Lindstrom said Bergin gave no indication of which way she is leaning on merits of each side's strength of the case.
"There are no Arizona cases dealing with this law so there is nothing on point," Lindstrom said. "It sounds like the decision she will ultimately make, she will have to make herself.

Appeal it will be. I don't see how that's a win for the Coyotes as they are in court and on the verge of being kicked out of their arena and lose a juicy subsidy...

 

[GF]

I can't believe this will go to D&D. I just can't.

Something must happen like... now.

Gary and Bill are either really dumbs (I doubt it) or have an ace up their sleeve because this is gonna get messy when this hits the court. And when they lose (no way they win this imho), they'll be up a creek without a paddle.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

From the Morgan article:


Appeal it will be. I don't see how that's a win for the Coyotes as they are in court and on the verge of being kicked out of their arena and lose a juicy subsidy...

There is no winners here. Everyone loses (well, except those of us who are entertain by that saga ). The city loses, the team loses, the league loses, the fans lose, the taypaxers lose. It is a disaster all around.

 

[MNNumbers]

I am no legal expert, but it arena this case rests not on law, but on findings of fact.

Did Frisoni and Tindall 'contribute significantly'or not?

Is it not true that in some courts, findings of facts are not able to be appealed?

 

[MNNumbers]

There is no winners here. Everyone loses (well, except those of us who are entertain by that saga ). The city loses, the team loses, the league loses, the fans lose, the taypaxers lose. It is a disaster all around.

I respectfully disagree. The city wins compared to the way they were taken advantage of before. The taxpayers win. Westgate will lose a little.

And in the bigger view, anything that moves the dialogue nationally toward... 'Build your own stadium!' is a win for the public.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I respectfully disagree. The city wins compared to the way they were taken advantage of before. The taxpayers win. Westgate will lose a little.

And in the bigger view, anything that moves the dialogue nationally toward... 'Build your own stadium!' is a win for the public.

I was commenting the whole saga. Everyone looks bad and everyone lost money. The fans and taxpayers are held hostage.

Sure, if the City wins its case, they will save the taxpayers money... but will still have given 50M+ to the league which should never had happened in the first place.

So, yeah, in the end, I think everyone ends up being a loser... even if they negociate and end up with a good lease (which would be a miracle considering the team NEEDS the AMF).

I do agree and love your last point though.

 

[Llama19]

An "obscure loophole" that IA knew was in the agreement, knew that one day Glendale could use it, and then went out and hired the people that could specifically allow Glendale to use it.

I honestly have a hard time figuring out which side has less intelligence. In the race to stupidity they are both giving it their all.

Lookie, lookie, another Executive Session today with an usual 11:00 a.m. start...

Source (PDF): https://glendale-az.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=A&ID=412999&GUID=71716330-9A91-45C3-A3D6-EFF16FFA9336

I wonder what it's about...

 

[TheLegend]

I am no legal expert, but it arena this case rests not on law, but on findings of fact.

Did Frisoni and Tindall 'contribute significantly'or not?

Is it not true that in some courts, findings of facts are not able to be appealed?

It'll be up to the judge to determine that, and with next to zero cases to draw from (I think CF said there is one) it'll be interesting if she chooses to set the definition.

But it doesn't matter, because if it gets that far then there will be appeals.

Hopefully both sides don't end up going to the mattresses (watched the Godfather II last night).

 

[Llama19]

Recall groups form to target Glendale council members

To quote:

"Vice Mayor Ian Hugh and Councilman Jamie Aldama are likely to face a recall effort as well, said Larry Feiner, a Glendale real estate agent who is working with other critics of the council's decision to terminate a 15-year, $225 million arena management agreement with the Coyotes.

"This is about more than the future of hockey," Feiner said. "This is about the future of Glendale. The sooner this council turns over, the better it is for the city of Glendale."

"I have absolutely no fear that the voters will throw me out of office for actually keeping my campaign promises," including renegotiating the Coyotes deal, he [Councilmember Bart Turner] said."

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ups-target-glendale-council-members/29486973/

 

[SoupNazi]

Thread limit. Please use the next part.