Phoenix CIV: May be time to put the band back together ...

kdb209 · Jun 21, 2015

Major4Boarding · Jun 22, 2015

klabob said:
I think the Panthers receive some tax revenue (maybe from hotel rooms) of some sort by the county.

The Panthers are seeking more tax money from the County that derives from TDT, not that the receive any directly. The TDT goes towards the Debt Service for BB&T and the remaining goes towards the General Fund of Broward for allocation (Beach Renourishment, Tourism Marketing, Broward Convention Center, etc.).

One of Yormark's last exercises before his departure was to convince the BCC (and I'm paraphrasing here) "You guys get plenty of money from the TDT. The Panthers feel we're entitled to it as well because that's what it was created for... us".

MNNumbers · Jun 22, 2015

Major4Boarding said:
The Panthers are seeking more tax money from the County that derives from TDT, not that the receive any directly. The TDT goes towards the Debt Service for BB&T and the remaining goes towards the General Fund of Broward for allocation (Beach Renourishment, Tourism Marketing, Broward Convention Center, etc.).

One of Yormark's last exercises before his departure was to convince the BCC (and I'm paraphrasing here) "You guys get plenty of money from the TDT. The Panthers feel we're entitled to it as well because that what it was created for... us".

Please elaborate with details that clarify the abbreviations.

Id under the impression this was a hotel and entertainment tax that was supposed to be for encouraging all tourism in Broward county. The county is supposedly not inclined to increasing the Panthers share, and is considering what the arena would look like without the team.

I would be happy to understand more about the funding you refer to.

Major4Boarding · Jun 22, 2015

Last two posts above are carryover from previous thread. The tie in is subsidies to sports entities from municipalities.

Carry on

Killion · Jun 22, 2015

and some more posts from the last thread...

enarwpg said:
The worst in net income. How about attendance and associated average ticket prices which two variables play a major part in the formula that spells failure or success. A couple of quotes from Howlin' Hockey ( source: http://howlinhockey.com/2015/06/19/arizona-coyotes-attendance-numbers-are-not-great/ )

blah, blah, blah

So even a fan sees the Phoenix / Glendale / Arizona hockey market for what it really appears to be..... that being the two sentences in the quotes above hi-lighted in red.

GuelphStormer said:
I agree with you. Anyone who buys even just one ticket is supporting the team. This is not on the fans, it's on the team for failing to draw more fans. Existing fans can only attend as many games and dig as deep as their own pockets allow.

That said though, I still see IA's decision not to raise prices immediately when they bought the team in 2013, right at the one unique time when they could have actually gotten away with it, as the single worse decision they made ... and it signalled to me that they were simply not serious about succeeding and/or not intellectually equipped to succeed. .... which further suggests to me that Bettman knowingly allowed a bunch of dunces to babysit while he continued guiding all the pieces of his master plan into place. Unfortunately, CoG threw a huge monkey wrench into that plan.

Llama19 said:
Agreed, it certainly factors in...but it is not the single worse decision, there seems to be more based on this thread...

..... have fun, keep yer heads up & sticks on the ice.

Dave is a killer · Jun 22, 2015

Killion said:
..... have fun, keep yer heads up & sticks on the ice.

Head on a swivel....

powerstuck · Jun 22, 2015

Llama19 said:
Is the band soon to be on a 'road trip'?

http://whois.domaintools.com/arizonacoyotes.com

Note: IP Location - United States - Washington - Seattle - Akamai Technologies Inc.

Well the official website is coyotes.nhl.com. Currently, the website you linked does redirect there. It may be nothing.

Checked Bruins (hosted in Florida), Habs (hosted in NYC) and Canucks (hosted at the same server as Coyotes), not sure it means anything.

OT : Fun to see that some team websites are managed by Nhl ([email protected]) (Habs and Canucks) while other have their own admins and managers (Bruins and Coyotes).

Major4Boarding · Jun 22, 2015

MNNumbers said:
Please elaborate with details that clarify the abbreviations.

Sure thing MNN.

TDT = Tourist Development Tax / BCC = Broward County Commissioners

The tourist development tax was initially established at 3% with the proceeds designated to fund the Broward County Tourist Development Plan (TDP). The TDP includes using the revenues to pay for Convention Center debt, tourism marketing programs, TDT administrative expenses, tourism related to cultural activities, and then for any other lawful purpose pursuant to Â§125.0104(5), F.S1.

On July 1, 1996 the Board authorized an additional 2% TDT increase to cover debt service on Arena Bonds issued to finance the construction of the Broward County Civic (Arena). Funds not used for payment of Arena debt service may be used to assist in the payment of debt service on bonds and/or notes issued to finance construction, reconstruction, or renovation of the Broward County Convention Center.

MNNumbers said:
Id under the impression this was a hotel and entertainment tax that was supposed to be for encouraging all tourism in Broward county. The county is supposedly not inclined to increasing the Panthers share, and is considering what the arena would look like without the team.

You are correct on the above. The County is not obligated, yet Yormark and SSE/AOC interpretations were it was. Should have done a better job initially on the spread of that TDT as opposed to making it seem it was, as a majority, for Debt Service. My bad.

Aavco Cup · Jun 22, 2015

is anything of interest expected this week? Or will it have to wait until the 29th?

JimAnchower · Jun 22, 2015

We're on a mission from COG!

Major4Boarding · Jun 22, 2015

Aavco Cup said:
is anything of interest expected this week? Or will it have to wait until the 29th?

As with anything involving this saga, I'd like to reference from The Book of Phoenix, Chapter LXXXIII, verse 6

Stuff's gonna happen.

TheFederalLeague · Jun 22, 2015

JimAnchower said:
We're on a mission from COG!

Drop the mic, Jim. Drop the mic.

Hoek · Jun 22, 2015

Llama19 said:
Is the band soon to be on a 'road trip'?

http://whois.domaintools.com/arizonacoyotes.com

Note: IP Location - United States - Washington - Seattle - Akamai Technologies Inc.

Akamai is a CDN (content delivery network). They host lots of things for lots of people because they have the bandwidth and nodes to do it. The Lightning's website is hosted on an Akamai server, too. It means nothing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akamai_Technologies

Akamai Technologies, Inc. is a cloud services provider headquartered in Cambridge, Massachusetts, in the United States. Akamai's content delivery network is one of the world's largest distributed computing platforms, responsible for serving between 15 and 30 percent of all web traffic.[7] The company operates a network of servers around the world and rents capacity on these servers to customers who want their websites to work faster by distributing content from locations close to the user. Over the years their customers have included Apple, Facebook, Bing, Twitter and healthcare.gov. When a user navigates to the URL of an Akamai customer, their browser is redirected to one of Akamai’s copies of this website, almost entirely invisible to the vast majority of its users.

Considering domaintools.com itself is running out of Seattle, any requests made by that site will pull up the Seattle Akamai copy of whatever website you look up.

CasualFan · Jun 22, 2015

Aavco Cup said:
is anything of interest expected this week? Or will it have to wait until the 29th?

If LeBlancs litigators are finished laughing at the city's case, I guess they might file a response to the city's motion to amend the TRO. It looks like that may have been positioned as a hearing on 6/29 in addition to the conference. Not sure though.

The decision on what happens to the July 1 AMF payment seems fairly important. If the judge decides that Glendale either doesn't have to pay the July 1 AMF or, more likely, Glendale can pay it to escrow instead of to the team, that would probably have some cascading impact. Most notably, a lender that was receiving all (or a portion of) the AMF as service on franchise acquisition debt might view the interruption of funds flow from the city as a default by the team.

tony d · Jun 22, 2015

Wonder what news we'll hear this week. Again with the draft coming up and the team picking 3rd you would wish that was the team's only thought right now but unfortunately that's not the case.

Killion · Jun 22, 2015

Aavco Cup said:
is anything of interest expected this week? Or will it have to wait until the 29th?

The Board of Governors Meetings are taking place mid-week. Its quite possible we'll be hearing more on this matter from Bettman & Daly. Hard to say... but..... theory goes that if the NHL wanted to turn the tables and had a deal in place with Quebec, could conceivably pull the trigger, sell immediately & move, launching suit thereafter against the City of Glendale for Breach of Contract etc etc etc. Sue them for a quarter of a billion or more. Similar sort of thing, pattern... remember they went after Moyes in launching a Civil Suit trying to claw back the $140M they dropped in BK Court in having to buy the team. In determining possible moves by an individual or entity such as the NHL, important to know their history, how theyve handled similar in the past. So while it might seem remote logistically its still possible. Its an option. Go Nuclear rather than take their chances in Court wherein they lose control to a large degree. Could find themselves at the mercy of Glendale. No Lease. Guaranteed huge losses. Lame Duck Season. Optics horrible.

IceAce · Jun 22, 2015

Aavco Cup said:
is anything of interest expected this week? Or will it have to wait until the 29th?

Shaping up to be a "calm before the storm" kind of week from a lease battle perspective. NHL Draft is Friday though.

Although as is always the case here, you never know whats going to happen next. We haven't had someone taze a city official in a while.... :nod:

ponder719 · Jun 22, 2015

JimAnchower said:
We're on a mission from COG!

I think we already have the title for Phoenix CV.

Montrealer · Jun 22, 2015

CasualFan said:
If LeBlancs litigators are finished laughing at the city's case, I guess they might file a response to the city's motion to amend the TRO. It looks like that may have been positioned as a hearing on 6/29 in addition to the conference. Not sure though.

The decision on what happens to the July 1 AMF payment seems fairly important. If the judge decides that Glendale either doesn't have to pay the July 1 AMF or, more likely, Glendale can pay it to escrow instead of to the team, that would probably have some cascading impact. Most notably, a lender that was receiving all (or a portion of) the AMF as service on franchise acquisition debt might view the interruption of funds flow from the city as a default by the team.

Something that might get discussed at the BOG meeting is whether the NHL is willing to cover the payments and leave the current ownership group in place in the event the AMF gets delayed. That may determine the future of the franchise.

CasualFan · Jun 22, 2015

Killion said:
The Board of Governors Meetings are taking place mid-week.

Interesting that BOG meetings and schedule release are set for dates before the NHL will know if the AMF is going to the team or escrow. Tough spot for the league on that one. Good luck, fellas.

Major4Boarding said:
...which was a low-wattage assertion. But hey, whatever takes the cannoli right?

It's a low-wattage assertion Monday. Here's mine:

5/15/2015: Hack Westhead publishes the epic Hugh(es) long read. While Rick manages to butcher most aspects of business and geography, he's obviously been in touch with people inside Glendale City Hall and something is brewing, even though none of them (including Hugh) seem to know what they're talking about. They're focused on "breach" not 38-511.

5/19/2015: Glendale has an Executive Session that includes discussion on the lease and team. *Low-Wattage Warning* I wasn't there, I have no idea what I'm talking about but I'm still talking anyway. The 5/19 session was likely the go-forward point where it was established that a majority of the counsel wanted the staff to bring them what they had as far as getting out of the lease.

6/2/2015 Afternoon: Glendale has another Executive Session that includes discussion on the lease and team. *Low-Wattage Warning* I wasn't there, I have no idea what I'm talking about but I'm still talking anyway. The 6/2 session was likely the executive summary presentation based on the direction from 5/19. The 6/2 meeting was likely the point of no return. Council saw what was in the file and instructed the staff to give TeamTony a week to come to the table or the city would nuke it.

6/2/2015 Evening: Some guy I've never heard of "Maury Brown" sends a tweet saying "File this under rumor.... NHL relocation around the end of June". *Low-Wattage Warning* I wasn't there, I have no idea what I'm talking about but I'm still talking anyway. Someone from Glendale, (someone maybe like Gary Sherwood?), leaked the council direction from Executive Session and it grape-vined its was to this Maury fella who then tweeted it.

6/4/2015: Bettman dismisses any notion of relocation

6/9/2015: Glendale has another Executive Session, then posts notice of special voting meeting the next day

6/10/2015: Glendale votes 5-2 to cancel the lease

The NHL may have been exploring relo plans as early as 6/2/2015 based upon specific information that they received out of Glendale that the lease was going to be cancelled.

Ciao · Jun 22, 2015

CasualFan said:
The decision on what happens to the July 1 AMF payment seems fairly important. If the judge decides that Glendale either doesn't have to pay the July 1 AMF or, more likely, Glendale can pay it to escrow instead of to the team, that would probably have some cascading impact. Most notably, a lender that was receiving all (or a portion of) the AMF as service on franchise acquisition debt might view the interruption of funds flow from the city as a default by the team.

I think it's very likely the July AMF payment gets paid into escrow, and if so that could be a moment of truth for IA.

Fugu has long held the position that IA won't negotiate with Glendale because it has no money with which to negotiate, and I agree with that. As many others have noted, IA probably has every cent spent before it's received.

If IA's one sure thing, the AMF payment is interrupted in a way that disturbs it's debt service, that could be curtains for this act. At that point IA would find out whether the NHL is willing to shovel some money their way to cover things up, as it did with Moyes, or not. If not, see the relo thread.

I expect IA needs to show irreparable harm that can't be compensated in damages to sustain it's TRO. That creates a Catch-22 situation for IA. If it presents evidence that withholding the July AMF would cause irreparable harm because it needs the money to stay solvent, that enhances Glendale's position that the money must be held in escrow pending a determination of liability because there is a significant risk that if Glendale wins it will have dry judgment. So, the harder IA pushes on "irreparable harm" with respect to the next AMF payment, the worse their case gets. Conversely, if IA doesn't show irreparable harm then there's no reason to upset the "balance of convenience", which is to pay the money into escrow.

They're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

It might turn out they're just plain old damned anyway, with Tindall's hiring and his emails and all anyway.

Mightygoose · Jun 22, 2015

Does anyone know what time the meetings are scheduled to start (and end) on Wednesday?

In perhaps simplistic terms, I see 4 cross roads they have

1) Continue and support IA in their fight with the city. Full steam ahead regardless on the 3.75 Payment decision.
2) Strongly encourage IA to meet with the city and re-negotiate.
3) Encourage IA to set up shop downtown, park it for a year and a final decision down the road.
4) Pull the plug, encourage IA (they may or may not have a choice) to sell have the team sent to city X in short order.

I may have missed some but I think they'll take door # 1.

Ciao · Jun 22, 2015

CasualFan said:
Interesting that BOG meetings and schedule release are set for dates before the NHL will know if the AMF is going to the team or escrow. Tough spot for the league on that one. Good luck, fellas.

It's a low-wattage assertion Monday. Here's mine:

5/15/2015: Hack Westhead publishes the epic Hugh(es) long read. While Rick manages to butcher most aspects of business and geography, he's obviously been in touch with people inside Glendale City Hall and something is brewing, even though none of them (including Hugh) seem to know what they're talking about. They're focused on "breach" not 38-511.

5/19/2015: Glendale has an Executive Session that includes discussion on the lease and team. *Low-Wattage Warning* I wasn't there, I have no idea what I'm talking about but I'm still talking anyway. The 5/19 session was likely the go-forward point where it was established that a majority of the counsel wanted the staff to bring them what they had as far as getting out of the lease.

6/2/2015 Afternoon: Glendale has another Executive Session that includes discussion on the lease and team. *Low-Wattage Warning* I wasn't there, I have no idea what I'm talking about but I'm still talking anyway. The 6/2 session was likely the executive summary presentation based on the direction from 5/19. The 6/2 meeting was likely the point of no return. Council saw what was in the file and instructed the staff to give TeamTony a week to come to the table or the city would nuke it.

6/2/2015 Evening: Some guy I've never heard of "Maury Brown" sends a tweet saying "File this under rumor.... NHL relocation around the end of June". *Low-Wattage Warning* I wasn't there, I have no idea what I'm talking about but I'm still talking anyway. Someone from Glendale, (someone maybe like Gary Sherwood?), leaked the council direction from Executive Session and it grape-vined its was to this Maury fella who then tweeted it.

6/4/2015: Bettman dismisses any notion of relocation

6/9/2015: Glendale has another Executive Session, then posts notice of special voting meeting the next day

6/10/2015: Glendale votes 5-2 to cancel the lease

The NHL may have been exploring relo plans as early as 6/2/2015 based upon specific information that they received out of Glendale that the lease was going to be cancelled.

Surely the NHL must be expecting IA to lose access to the AMF and then default on its debt service almost immediately thereafter.

Unless the NHL is willing to go back where it started (by secretly underwriting Moyes) it could be a whole lot closer to exercising relocation options than it lets on.

That fits in with your hypothesis as well.

Whileee · Jun 22, 2015

CasualFan said:
If LeBlancs litigators are finished laughing at the city's case, I guess they might file a response to the city's motion to amend the TRO. It looks like that may have been positioned as a hearing on 6/29 in addition to the conference. Not sure though.

The decision on what happens to the July 1 AMF payment seems fairly important. If the judge decides that Glendale either doesn't have to pay the July 1 AMF or, more likely, Glendale can pay it to escrow instead of to the team, that would probably have some cascading impact. Most notably, a lender that was receiving all (or a portion of) the AMF as service on franchise acquisition debt might view the interruption of funds flow from the city as a default by the team.

I was under the impression that Barroway's entry into the "band" had relieved them of the franchise acquisition debt. Am I mistaken?

If they still do have this obligation and can't come up with the cash, then any suggestion that his ownership group could do anything other than opt out of the lease at year 5 is pure fantasy. Maybe someone forgot that Glendale had previously been misled by the Ice Idiots with respect to their financial wherewithal.

CasualFan · Jun 22, 2015

Mork said:
I expect IA needs to show irreparable harm that can't be compensated in damages to sustain it's TRO. That creates a Catch-22 situation for IA. If it presents evidence that withholding the July AMF would cause irreparable harm because it needs the money to stay solvent, that enhances Glendale's position that the money must be held in escrow pending a determination of liability because there is a significant risk that if Glendale wins it will have dry judgment. So, the harder IA pushes on "irreparable harm" with respect to the next AMF payment, the worse their case gets. Conversely, if IA doesn't show irreparable harm then there's no reason to upset the "balance of convenience", which is to pay the money into escrow.

They're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

I think that's stated very well. It's kind of sad that the School Girl Media Tour steered the narrative away from how brilliantly Glendale positioned this. The kettle move the city put on IA is a thing of beauty. That stupid arrogant ass LeBlanc is probably still wondering what hit him. :handclap:

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