Phoenix CIV: May be time to put the band back together ...

[CasualFan]

I really would like the Coyotes to succeed ...

but I really don't know beans about business or finance.

In a vacuum, I'd like for the team to play at the Glendale arena forever. Selfishly, I like the team and I like the building. It makes my March vacations to the area more enjoyable. But there is no vacuum that can pick up all the salt that's been laid on this earth.

Barney, OA, M4B and the finance guys have had to wade it to bail me out of the surf more than once. I cant imagine some of the eyebrow raises that finance professionals have made at errors I've posted on BOH.

 

[pondnorth]

Anyone know if the Band has paid or has the ability to pay the 250k the judge ordered for the TRO ?

 

[Fugu]

I keep seeing this theory stated here, but I'm not making the connection? What's the basis for this? Because the NHL lent them money, they're now a shell corp?

Do you think they really did this, instead of ya know actually selling to Paul Allen 2 years ago, just so they could continue to bilk more money out of Glendale? That's quite an elaborate mouse trap for a rather small mouse.

We know the sale to IA was comprised of a $85MM loan from the NHL, anywhere from $80-120 MM from FIG, and $45 MM from IA.

More recently, the FIG loan was supplanted by an LOC through the NHL's program arranged with a group of banks (the NHL is the backer, but team valuations are also needed).

Barroway seems to have put in some cash, but the amount remains unclear.

Anyone know if the Band has paid or has the ability to pay the 250k the judge ordered for the TRO ?

No one knows.

 

[Killion]

I keep seeing this theory stated here, but I'm not making the connection? What's the basis for this? Because the NHL lent them money, they're now a shell corp?

Do you think they really did this, instead of ya know actually selling to Paul Allen 2 years ago, just so they could continue to bilk more money out of Glendale? That's quite an elaborate mouse trap for a rather small mouse.

Ive outlined the reasons for why I believe this on innumerable occasions IceAce, but in bullet form;

* NHL was ready to bail, selling to TrueNorth
* COG agrees to pay $25M in Extortion Fee's
* Series of Moonshot Wannabe Owners traipsing in
* NHL wont drop price, facilitate sale, put their $$$ where their mouth is
* Plan is to manipulate the Rubes in Glendale, new precedents set in public subsidies
* 2nd down & counting, NHL Extort's another $25M out of Glendale who are unaware that Atlantas' in meltdown, Relo not a threat
* 2013 Jamison given the boot, NHL demanding more down last minute, he's gone, and why?
* Paul Allen circling, does the math at $170M, doesnt add up for Portland
* Stuck & with a beyond pliable City in Glendale... create a false front, Dummy Corporation, Renaissance S&E becoming IceArizona
* Throw the usual requirements to purchase a franchise out the window
* Close to 100% Financed Transaction through the Bank of Last Resort, Fortress Investment Group
* This is not even a Rent to Own scheme, its merely a Caretaker Position assumed by Gosbee, LeBlanc & the rest of the so called minority owners

Goes on & on & on. This isnt for real. This is the NHL thinking its clever and stealing a page right out of the Black~Op's Playbook. Dummy Corp, False Front, Disinformation Officers duly employed. Sale process on-going but all underground, bought themselves 5yrs, removal from the media & public glare. Easy enough to pick up every stitch... the dots all connect. Conspiracy Fact or Theory? I believe its fact but of course your free to make your own mind up.

 

[madhi19]

We know the sale to IA was comprised of a $85MM loan from the NHL, anywhere from $80-120 MM from FIG, and $45 MM from IA.

More recently, the FIG loan was supplanted by an LOC through the NHL's program arranged with a group of banks (the NHL is the backer, but team valuations are also needed).

Barroway seems to have put in some cash, but the amount remains unclear.




No one knows.

You forgot the $50MM loan in operating fund, that's only come due three years from now. I wonder how fast they burned it?

 

[HabsAlways]

Goes on & on & on. This isnt for real. This is the NHL thinking its clever and stealing a page right out of the Black~Op's Playbook. Dummy Corp, False Front, Disinformation Officers duly employed. Sale process on-going but all underground, bought themselves 5yrs, removal from the media & public glare. Easy enough to pick up every stitch... the dots all connect. Conspiracy Fact or Theory? I believe its fact but of course your free to make your own mind up.

Pretty confident it's fact.

NHL had a road plan/strategy for the next 5 years (the coincided with the 'out' clause).

Coyotes relocate East at end of 5 years (to QC)
LV and one of either Por/Sea expansion
Whichever of Por/Sea did not get a team, gets one of the eastern teams that struggling financially (Columbus, Florida, NJ)

It was a 5 year plan. What it didn't take into account was Glendale suddenly getting a backbone.

 

[Killion]

IA did raise prices. It was one of the subjects LeBLanc touched on in the beginning. Whether it wasn't enough.... or soon enough certainly is open to debate, but they did warn the fan base it was coming and people understood that.

Yeah & that was to be expected as pricing was lagging behind NHL averages just as everything else was. The franchise & building in a pretty much neutral position. Moribund. So sure, increases expected but after all the fan base had been put through no, theres no way any sensible person would think you could just jack them up by 25% or whatever overnight. They were pretty low key however, didnt hit the ground running the way they should have with marketing & promotion in telegraphing, setting a goal, that "hey folks, were here, shooting for 12,000 Seasons Tickets & 5000 Mini Pack Sales" and so on & so forth. Yes I understand it was a late Closing in 2013 but theyve had more than enough time since to seriously ramp that up. Instead all we get are excuses from LeBlanc and or often silly announcements about some new sponsorship deal involving very little cash from IceAriziona. Those deals that do involve money resulting in acrimony with the City over who's entitled to what. The whole parking issue a complete & utter fiasco, never mind the lack of concert & event bookings which they had absolutely no idea as to how to go about. Didnt & still apparently dont understand how that business works. Responsibility & thus failure being transferred to Global-Spectrum's shoulders. Serious competition in Metro Phoenix for that business, LeBlanc's been hovering for years, no excuse for him to be making promises with his mouth that his ass could never cover. Its not Rocket Science, not hard to figure out, get a bead on the industry, what one might be able to accomplish in Glendale up against what you are there. But c'mon here, over-promising & under-delivering, fatal.

 

[IceAce]

Ive outlined the reasons for why I believe this on innumerable occasions IceAce, but in bullet form;

* NHL was ready to bail, selling to TrueNorth
* COG agrees to pay $25M in Extortion Fee's
* Series of Moonshot Wannabe Owners traipsing in
* NHL wont drop price, facilitate sale, put their $$$ where their mouth is
* Plan is to manipulate the Rubes in Glendale, new precedents set in public subsidies
* 2nd down & counting, NHL Extort's another $25M out of Glendale who are unaware that Atlantas' in meltdown, Relo not a threat
* 2013 Jamison given the boot, NHL demanding more down last minute, he's gone, and why?
* Paul Allen circling, does the math at $170M, doesnt add up for Portland
* Stuck & with a beyond pliable City in Glendale... create a false front, Dummy Corporation, Renaissance S&E becoming IceArizona
* Throw the usual requirements to purchase a franchise out the window
* Close to 100% Financed Transaction through the Bank of Last Resort, Fortress Investment Group
* This is not even a Rent to Own scheme, its merely a Caretaker Position assumed by Gosbee, LeBlanc & the rest of the so called minority owners

Goes on & on & on. This isnt for real. This is the NHL thinking its clever and stealing a page right out of the Black~Op's Playbook. Dummy Corp, False Front, Disinformation Officers duly employed. Sale process on-going but all underground, bought themselves 5yrs, removal from the media & public glare. Easy enough to pick up every stitch... the dots all connect. Conspiracy Fact or Theory? I believe its fact but of course your free to make your own mind up.

Thanks for re-iterating the bullet points for my behalf. And I think I was aware of most of that, I guess what I don't get is what would be the end goal that justifies the supposed shell game here?

It's got to be more than the NHL just "sucking it up for 5 more years" so they can bleed a little more out of a municipality and "save face" here.

 

[RandR]

Story this afternoon (Scott Burnside) about the BoG meetings this week in Vegas. .What to expect out of Las Vegas this week

It includes the following on the Coyotes:

The mess in the desert: The governors will also get an update on the latest in the never-ending saga of the Arizona Coyotes and their tortured relationship with the city of Glendale. ... The governors will also get an update about a subtle shifting of ownership makeup within the Coyotes' structure that sees several well-heeled investors taking a more prominent role. Meanwhile, Andrew Barroway, who purchased 51 percent of the team on Dec. 31, is taking a lesser role amid rumors he did not have nearly as much financial clout as first believed. Barroway will nonetheless remain the investor who controls the largest percentage of the Coyotes, assuming the governors approve the restructuring.

In regards to whether the NHL really sold the team to Ice Arizona, wouldn't the Coyotes sale in 2013 be akin to a mortgage where the buyer (Ice Arizona) scrapes together whatever nickles and dimes they can find under the couch and goes into debt for the rest with the seller (the NHL) knowing that they can always repossess the house (ie- the Coyotes) if the buyer can't keep up with their payments? Seems to me that the league, IA and anyone else party to this would still be able to legitimately claim that Ice Arizona, Barroway et al have bought the Coyotes and are their owners (at least until something changes such as what the CoG and Barroway events of the past couple of weeks have precipitated).

 

[rojac]

Story this afternoon (Scott Burnside) about the BoG meetings this week in Vegas. .What to expect out of Las Vegas this week

It includes the following on the Coyotes:




In regards to whether the NHL really sold the team to Ice Arizona, wouldn't the Coyotes sale in 2013 be akin to a mortgage where the buyer (Ice Arizona) scrapes together whatever nickles and dimes they can find under the couch and goes into debt for the rest with the seller (the NHL) knowing that they can always repossess the house (ie- the Coyotes) if the buyer can't keep up with their payments? Seems to me that the league, IA and anyone else party to this would still be able to legitimately claim that Ice Arizona, Barroway et al have bought the Coyotes and are their owners (at least until something changes such as what the CoG and Barroway events of the past couple of weeks have precipitated).

That's always been my view on the sale to Ice Arizona.

 

[cbcwpg]

It's got to be more than the NHL just "sucking it up for 5 more years" so they can bleed a little more out of a municipality and "save face" here.

We have no idea just how much of this is one man's ego and one man's desire to leave his legacy. On a scale of 1 - 100.... I would say we are at 100 on the Bettman ego range.

 

[Fugu]

You forgot the $50MM loan in operating fund, that's only come due three years from now. I wonder how fast they burned it?

Not sure which $50MM you mean, madhi. Here's Forbes report on the initial sale:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeoza...0-million-sale-to-be-partially-funded-by-nhl/

A source close to the negotiations, who traded candor for anonymity, revealed the purchase price as $170 million. The capital structure would consist of RS&E putting in $45 million of equity, Fortress Investment Group lending $120 million (to be repaid by the fee Glendale taxpayers are going to pay the team to run the arena), and an $85 million loan from the NHL.
The $80 million the total capital investment ($250 million) exceeds the enterprise value of the purchase ($170 million) will be used as working capital. In other words, no capital calls even if the team loses a lot of money over the next few years. In addition, the NHL is promising the new owners that they will get the maximum amount of revenue from the league’s revenue-sharing system.

Add [annually] guaranteed income:

Revenue Transfer: $18 MM
COG: $15 MM
Revenue Sharing: share of TV and sponsorships, so ~$20-ish millions?

 

[Mightygoose]

It's got to be more than the NHL just "sucking it up for 5 more years" so they can bleed a little more out of a municipality and "save face" here.

I think it's more that there was a municipality willing to bleed so to say as opposed to saving face. Considering they were within 10-15 minutes of bolting to Winnipeg in 2010. As long as the golden goose was going to lay eggs, they would have approved anyone.

Now this golden goose is not laying eggs anymore so Wednesday is not expected to be a very boring day

 

[Seattle Totems]

So purchase price of $170 million to a group that has no money, but if they want to relocate the team to an American market that goes up to $400 million plus. Who cares if the new owners are saddled with debt. Sure, that makes good business sense.

 

[IceAce]

We have no idea just how much of this is one man's ego and one man's desire to leave his legacy. On a scale of 1 - 100.... I would say we are at 100 on the Bettman ego range.

Say what you want about Bettman, but above all else, he's a good businessman. I don't see him passing up the opportunity to cash out to the detriment of the entire operation. If he's doing something I'd figure there's a financial reason behind it and not solely an ego play.

I think it's more that there was a municipality willing to bleed so to say as opposed to saving face. Considering they were within 10-15 minutes of bolting to Winnipeg in 2010. As long as the golden goose was going to lay eggs, they would have approved anyone.

Except that the eggs werent really that golden and they knew it. The franchise was barely solvent with the last deal and expected to try to make changes to help it stabilize and grow.

Now this golden goose is not laying eggs anymore so Wednesday is not expected to be a very boring day

I think that even if the BOG gives Bettman the go ahead to pull the plug on this thing, we likely won't know about it until the hearing on the 29th or perhaps even July 1st when/if IA doesnt get their check from the CoG. Some further default or transgression is going to have to occur for them to call that loan.

 

[Killion]

Thanks for re-iterating the bullet points for my behalf. And I think I was aware of most of that, I guess what I don't get is what would be the end goal that justifies the supposed shell game here?

It's got to be more than the NHL just "sucking it up for 5 more years" so they can bleed a little more out of a municipality and "save face" here.

Buying time was the key that fits & opens that lock of a question. Its recent history, thoroughly documented here. To the nth degree in fact. Remember, despite warnings from Judge Baum during the Moyes BK, the City backed the NHL's purchase of the team after the supposed "line-up of buyers" Bettman claimed he had waiting in the wings completely evaporated. They along with Reinsdorf thought they could pull it off but no, Glendale wasnt buying it, so out goes the Chosen One for the 2nd or 3rd time, in comes Matthew Hulsizer & the Clowns (though theyd been around during the BK as well, said they were gunna make an offer but never formally did).

Goes on & on IceAce. We cant be re-hashing all 100+ threads here & now obviously and you have followed it, the reasons for the NHL pulling this stunt are really pretty obvious despite its clandestine nature in creating the fiction of a non-sale event. That the team was sold, has real owners when in fact it wasnt and they are not "real owners". Buying time. Off the radar. Off grid. Underground. 5 years to get this mess straightened out once & for all & success in Glendale does not figure into that equation. No Sir. Not based on what their by proxy operators are receiving in fee's. Doesnt take a genius to figure that out. Totally bizarre, IMO beyond the very precepts of Contract Law in that suicidal agreement the City signed. Nuts. And no, there is nothing more to it than bleeding the City & "saving face". Its a setup. They knew the City would eventually rail, they knew they'd easily lose $50M and can plausibly exit, excuse themselves from Arizona.

 

[Llama19]

How much risk?

Source: http://joyceclarkunfiltered.com/how-much-risk/

 

[Brodie]

I keep seeing this theory stated here, but I'm not making the connection? What's the basis for this? Because the NHL lent them money, they're now a shell corp?

Do you think they really did this, instead of ya know actually selling to Paul Allen 2 years ago, just so they could continue to bilk more money out of Glendale? That's quite an elaborate mouse trap for a rather small mouse.

If you think maintaining the illusion that the NHL stands by cities who want to do whatever it takes to be their partners is a small mouse, you're lying to yourself. its the owners business model at stake.

 

[Llama19]

Glendale attorney brought up Arizona Coyotes counsel conflict concern in March

Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2015/06/22/glendale-attorney-brought-up-arizonacoyotes.html

 

[King_Stannis]

How much risk?

Source: http://joyceclarkunfiltered.com/how-much-risk/

Whoa.

It made me recall an incident at the end of 2012. The city was in the process of negotiation with a Coyotes team purchaser, Greg Jamison. I called Mr. Tindall with some technical questions about the deal. Cryptically, at the end of our telephonic conversation he remarked that if the Jamison deal didn’t make there was another group waiting in the wings. When I asked who, he refused to respond. In hindsight it now makes perfect sense but it raises more questions for me. I remember Interim City Manager Horatio Skeete telling me that Tindall appeared to be stalling and would hold Jamison documents on his desk for days. Skeete would make repeated requests for them which eventually would be fulfilled. Did Tindall deliberately sabotage the Jamison deal in an attempt to make available the opportunity for LeBlanc, et. al.? I honestly don’t know. You will have to decide for yourselves.

 

[madhi19]

If you think maintaining the illusion that the NHL stands by cities who want to do whatever it takes to be their partners is a small mouse, you're lying to yourself. its the owners business model at stake.

I been saying it for a while, I always felt that the NHL needed to hear Glendale say "NO" at least once. Followed by a PR offensive to shift the blame on the city. Guess what happen last week.

 

[Whileee]

It was confirmed that the FIG loan was paid off but supplanted by the LOC-- better terms, max per team is $120-125 MM, iirc.

Well, good thing they have a BOG meeting upcoming. When IA finds out that they aren't getting the AMF and can't manage the LOC they can just ask all the other franchises to pitch in.

 

[madhi19]

Whoa.

It made me recall an incident at the end of 2012. The city was in the process of negotiation with a Coyotes team purchaser, Greg Jamison. I called Mr. Tindall with some technical questions about the deal. Cryptically, at the end of our telephonic conversation he remarked that if the Jamison deal didn’t make there was another group waiting in the wings. When I asked who, he refused to respond. In hindsight it now makes perfect sense but it raises more questions for me. I remember Interim City Manager Horatio Skeete telling me that Tindall appeared to be stalling and would hold Jamison documents on his desk for days. Skeete would make repeated requests for them which eventually would be fulfilled. Did Tindall deliberately sabotage the Jamison deal in an attempt to make available the opportunity for LeBlanc, et. al.? I honestly don’t know. You will have to decide for yourselves.

You know at this point if everybody wanted a scapegoat to save faces and part ways. We got one ready made.

 

[Fugu]

How much risk?

Source: http://joyceclarkunfiltered.com/how-much-risk/

From Joyce Clark:

We now know through more emails of Tindall’s effort to break a roadblock on July 26, 2013 (after the contract is approved) regarding the city’s paying IceArizona’s lenders directly? He emailed the newly hired City Manager (now former City Manager) Brenda Fischer apparently asserting that it was a simple administrative matter and appears to be urging her to take action.

And I'm assuming he initiated this communication to "inform" the city manager that this was not an issue.

The people within the city paid to review, manage and advise these matters:

I end with excepts from an email memo to the entire city council dated June 25, 2013 (a few weeks before council approval) from then Interim City Manager Dick Bowers:

• “Contrary to what might appear in the papers I don’t see this as a ‘done deal’. Far from it. Discussions continued over the weekend and we have come only slightly closer to comfortable than before. Gary B(irnbaum) has helped to illustrate to the Renaissance group’s (eventually IceArizona) attorney the concerns we have. I suspect this has given them a degree of discomfort.â€
• “Glendale cannot afford a failure. The potential of failure exists as a dark shadow in the absence of the investors standing by their own numbers with confidence enough to simply take them for themselves and do the deal for 6.5.â€
• “While there are many ways to describe the Renaissance’s reluctance I keep coming back to that same discomfort of Glendale having all the risk in this deal. My concerns could mean nothing or they could represent an existential question that must be considered. Will this work for the benefit of the City of Glendale and what makes us firmly believe that it will?â€

Meanwhile Frisoni is providing select information from the Westhead manager to the four council members.

 

[Whileee]

Their Puppets. Been told what to do & will continue to be so & will do as their told.
Their not calling the shots. A front. Illusory ownership. This team still belongs to the NHL.

For the Ice Clowns, it's always been about pretending that they are Big League players. LeBlanc and company have nothing much in the game, because they didn't have cash to invest. They just like putting "Coyotes Owner" on their Twitter account while everyone else does the financial heavy lifting. How these snake oil salesmen got a seemingly decent guy like Gosbee to invest with them is beyond me. He must be livid that they've not only shown themselves to be bad at managing the finances of an NHL franchise, but are also so brain dead that they've put the whole house of cards at risk by hiring their former CoG Starbucks pal.

Still, for some reason LeBlanc and his band of ninnies are heroes to BeavisPAC and many other Coyotes fans. Meanwhile the CoG is wearing the black hat because they figured out that these guys are charlatans that were going to loot all they could from Glendale's treasury and then hightail it out of town when they run out of money.