Phoenix CII: Oh, the pain the pain

[CBJ goalie]

Ideas for next thread title:
- Phoenix CIII: Hockey the Hard Way - use the Coyotes own slogan...
- Phoenix CIII PO'd (maybe a nod to any Star Wars fans, while acknowledging the mood between COG and IA).

One more thing: shouldn't the titles now be Arizona instead of Phoenix? Minor nit.....

 

[kihekah19*]

There's no doubt that the NHL would prefer a healthy NHL in Arizona but the reality is it's not going to happen. There is zero evidence and no likely situation that will result in that.

As to the moving of the Yotes, I believe the general consensus was that it was more the NHL wanting to do things on their own terms and on their own schedule. Hence why the they put the 5 year out clause. The same time the arena in Seattle was (at the time) expected to be finished.



The reason for the general belief of disengenious moments is because there is nothing in this entire saga that makes one iota of logical sense. Tindall being involved in the negotiation is pretty evident since A - lawyers are usually the leads on these types of negotations and B - he was on retainer which even though he only offered advice we was doing so while either 1 - being employed by the Yotes or 2 - knowing he was going to employed by them and C - he explicitly stated he negotiated the JIG lease which included Ice Edge and one Anthony Leblanc.

The lawyers here might be able to delve more into whether or not it would make a difference it was under a different LLC and had a few different players but still had some of the same. And on top of that, how much difference is there between the two leases and whether that matter or not.

Frisoni, we know nothing right now. She worked for the COG and now she is doing consulting work for the Coyotes. Public Relations people can be involved in this if they're high enough to influence council members on the public perception of the deal and say why certain things might be better or worse if things were written differently. Again, nothing has been released in terms of information but there are lots of ways people can be involved.

Why the COG wants to end this lease but still willing to work with the Coyotes on a new one is fairly easy. The current one was done illegally (in their minds) and is also not in the publics best interest. So they want to get rid of the illegal one and make a new, legal one.

The more important one is the first part since that's what is legally important. The second part is simply to add to the whole illegal part and just seem like icing on the cake. Also it's part of their PR show as well.

And are you saying that the courts should ignore whether or not it's illegal just because the situation is so bizarrely absurd? Three words. MCdonald's hot coffee.

I'll address your first and last sentences. Everything in between is just too weak imo.

First: Why is it so hard for everyone here to understand the lesser of two evils? Perhaps it's because of all the "facts" that support the team moving?

Last: Depends on how you look at the ruling on the coffee. That was a jury and the ruling was over the top, sure enough. This will be decided by a judge and my point is that (for better of worse) the folks in our system (judges) have become more liberal in their reasoning for "adjusting" the law, as they see fit.

I lied.... I will address some of your content (to show my mindset): While legal council is involved and perhaps even "takes the lead" on these negotiations (your words not mine), they should be addressing the legal aspects of an agreement and NOT the economics. I have council on retainer, but I never seek their advise regarding economics, that's what my accountant and my broker are for.

 

[Major4Boarding]

First: Why is it so hard for everyone here to understand the lesser of two evils? Perhaps it's because of all the "facts" that support the team moving?

Perhaps because no one's put in the wrench time to present the other side of the fence? You know, to actually show facts and figures that losing the Coyotes is the death knell of Glendale? Without coercion?

Its quite easy to swing a bat at the opposition but, so far, I've seen no one with a bat.

 

[GordonGraham]

Fair enough, but they can get the hearing moved up right

Why would they? The longer this drags on the more pressure they put on the coyotes to negociate a new deal or risk getting evicted mid season

 

[LPHabsFan]

I'll address your first and last sentences. Everything in between is just too weak imo.

First: Why is it so hard for everyone here to understand the lesser of two evils? Perhaps it's because of all the "facts" that support the team moving?

Last: Depends on how you look at the ruling on the coffee. That was a jury and the ruling was over the top, sure enough. This will be decided by a judge and my point is that (for better of worse) the folks in our system (judges) have become more liberal in their reasoning for "adjusting" the law, as they see fit.

I lied.... I will address some of your content (to show my mindset): While legal council is involved and perhaps even "takes the lead" on these negotiations (your words not mine), they should be addressing the legal aspects of an agreement and NOT the economics. I have council on retainer, but I never seek their advise regarding economics, that's what my accountant and my broker are for.

Ya you know what? Your sound logic and reasoning by describing the answer to your questions as "weak" is a really strong argument is right. You've swayed me. I agree now. It's weak....

I'm not even sure where to begin. Basically what you're saying is that we should ignore the "facts" because they support of preconceived notion despite the fact that there has never been any piece of evidence given over the past 7 years that disputes the "claims" that we're saying. Am I getting this right? If so...........wow

And no, it's not, nor has this lease deal ever been the lesser of two evils. People here have shown time and time again that there were other and better options for the COG than accepting the current or any of the previous versions of the lease yet you have yet to show why they are better off for it. Because you're not able to. Because every single argument that has been discussed as to why and how the Coyotes have been or could be succesfful or why it was the lesser of two evils has been disproven. Sorry. "disproven".

I'm not sure what the whole thing is with legal council providing economic advice is about. It has nothing to do with whether or not the lease is illegal.

 

[kihekah19*]

Ya you know what? Your sound logic and reasoning by describing the answer to your questions as "weak" is a really strong argument is right. You've swayed me. I agree now. It's weak....

I'm not even sure where to begin. Basically what you're saying is that we should ignore the "facts" because they support of preconceived notion despite the fact that there has never been any piece of evidence given over the past 7 years that disputes the "claims" that we're saying. Am I getting this right? If so...........wow

And no, it's not, nor has this lease deal ever been the lesser of two evils. People here have shown time and time again that there were other and better options for the COG than accepting the current or any of the previous versions of the lease yet you have yet to show why they are better off for it. Because you're not able to. Because every single argument that has been discussed as to why and how the Coyotes have been or could be succesfful or why it was the lesser of two evils has been disproven. Sorry. "disproven".

I'm not sure what the whole thing is with legal council providing economic advice is about. It has nothing to do with whether or not the lease is illegal.

Honestly, you don't seem "swayed"

You seem to think there has been some proof provided here over the years that supports your belief. Personally I've seen nothing here that proves anything and the fact remains that despite all the false bravado that these "facts" seem to have supported the team leaving the desert.... they're still here.

The case and point I'm making is very, very (to the point of absurdly) clear, the fact that so many don't seem to grasp it, speaks volumes.

 

[Llama19]

Contract language, time lines, State Bar ruling key to Glendale, Arizona Coyotes fight

To quote:

"Tindall was definitely part of city dealings with previous Coyotes suitors such as Greg Jamison and Matthew Hulsizer. The courts may also have to consider if the 2013 IceArizona deal was similar to those and whether that plays any role in the city’s conflict of interest argument."

Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...language-time-lines-state-bar-ruling-key.html

 

[Brodie]

Phoenix CIII: PO'd at Glendale

 

[Slashers98]

That whole saga is based on "corporate welfare" and most Coyotes fans seem happy and proud about that.

 

[Killion]

Oh I totally believe so. Weirs would enjoy throwing former members of council and city management under the bus, then stuffing and mounting them on his wall.

.... absolutely. I was thinking about just that yesterday. I can well imagine his hero's being Mickey Spillane, Ernest Hemingway, Louis Lamour, John Wayne..... Clint Eastwood... Man With No Name. Paint the town red. Welcome Home Boys. New Sheriff in town.

 

[Llama19]

 

[LPHabsFan]

Honestly, you don't seem "swayed"

You seem to think there has been some proof provided here over the years that supports your belief. Personally I've seen nothing here that proves anything and the fact remains that despite all the false bravado that these "facts" seem to have supported the team leaving the desert.... they're still here.

The case and point I'm making is very, very (to the point of absurdly) clear, the fact that so many don't seem to grasp it, speaks volumes.

Well we're not entirely sure what argument you're trying to make. So far all we've really seen is you saying that we're wrong and our arguments are weak or you don't believe them without any sort of qualification as to the why and how.

If you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore what's being put in front of you, hey that's your call. But people have spent years here going over everything and either proving or disproving things as they come.

The fact that the team is still here is proof of the fact that previous versions of the COG have their head up their rear end and the NHL having no other option each time when things went down.

 

[Llama19]

.... absolutely. I was thinking about just that yesterday. I can well imagine his hero's being Mickey Spillane, Ernest Hemingway, Louis Lamour, John Wayne..... Clint Eastwood... Man With No Name. Paint the town red. Welcome Home Boys. New Sheriff in town.

My Name is Nobody...

 

[JimAnchower]

Complete quote

Coyotes president, CEO & co-owner Anthony LeBlanc in response to yesterday's statement from the City of Glendale (https://twitter.com/cmorganfoxaz/status/610933014961496064):

"I think the only line that was missing in their statement was after they vowed they wouldn't be negotiating via the media, they should have added: 'Now let us attempt to negotiate via the media.' Something about a pot and a kettle comes to mind."

COG went on a media blitz today?

 

[sipowicz]

That whole saga is based on "corporate welfare" and most Coyotes fans seem happy and proud about that.

What NHL team isn't getting some form of corporate welfare as you put it?

The Coyotes have been a financial disaster since they first arrived in Arizona but there not the first team to receive taxpayer dollars!

 

[Killion]

My Name is Nobody...

... pretty much. Not a stretch to imagine he has the full Sergio Leone' & just about every Spaghetti Western ever made, Eastwood movies... Have Gun Will Travel... Bonanza... Rawhide... you name it...... all on VCR of course.... extensive 8 track collection to go with... Marty Robbins... Dolly..... Kenny Rogers... Willie..... Be a real fun guy to crack a bottle of Wild Turkey with huh?

 

[kihekah19*]

Well we're not entirely sure what argument you're trying to make. So far all we've really seen is you saying that we're wrong and our arguments are weak or you don't believe them without any sort of qualification as to the why and how.

If you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore what's being put in front of you, hey that's your call. But people have spent years here going over everything and either proving or disproving things as they come.

The fact that the team is still here is proof of the fact that previous versions of the COG have their head up their rear end and the NHL having no other option each time when things went down.

Argueing? I'm not argueing anything, I'll leave that to the lawyers. The general arguements for years now have been wrong.... team still here, for better or worse. Why would I need to qualify that? The council obviously thought the lease was what was best, now they want better.

My head is not buried (be careful, you may be attacking the post as opposed to the poster), I would offer that many have their heads in the clouds.... ie: the dream of relocation, to justify their stance.

Proof or opinion?

Sorry for being so direct and to the point, it really isn't that difficult. In fact, the long drawn out posts here for years and years now, are what makes this forum so amusing.

 

[Mightygoose]

Complete quote

COG went on a media blitz today?

I've heard some accuse Hugh using TSN (via Westhead) of their media blitz but nothing in terms of renegotiation details outside of the fact that they want to renegotiate.

Throwing my hat in the ring for Phoenix/Arizona CIII: Please delete this thread after you read it.

 

[LadyStanley]

Phoenix CIII: Raizing Arizona

 

[kihekah19*]

What NHL team isn't getting some form of corporate welfare as you put it?

The Coyotes have been a financial disaster since they first arrived in Arizona but there not the first team to receive taxpayer dollars!

Great point Andy. It's how the league works and they are better off for it.

By the small thinking logic of many..... the Blackhawks and Lightning should be the only ones receiving tv revenue form the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

 

[Whileee]

Contract language, time lines, State Bar ruling key to Glendale, Arizona Coyotes fight

To quote:

"Tindall was definitely part of city dealings with previous Coyotes suitors such as Greg Jamison and Matthew Hulsizer. The courts may also have to consider if the 2013 IceArizona deal was similar to those and whether that plays any role in the city’s conflict of interest argument."

Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...language-time-lines-state-bar-ruling-key.html

Well, let's look back a bit, shall we?




http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/8338670/source-says-phoenix-coyotes-suitor-greg-jamison-secures-financing

Ice Edge head Anthony LeBlanc has been in discussions with Jamison throughout the summer in putting a deal together to buy the team although it's not known exactly what role the group will play in the new ownership structure.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/ice-edge-back-in-the-mix-to-purchase-phoenix-coyotes/article4525357/

Sources indicate Ice Edge has been talking to Jamison since June and it is close to finalizing an agreement. Jamison “has been shopping this deal for a long, long time and to a lot of different people,†one source said. “As of right now, he’s feeling very confident [with Ice Edge]. … I think it is close. I do think that there’s a reasonable expectation this thing gets wrapped up in the month of September.â€

 

[madhi19]

Phoenix CIII:Sue, Sue, Sue Dioooo

 

[Acesolid]

Phoenix CIII:Sue, Sue, Sue Dioooo

 

[BattleBorn]

Phoenix CIII:Sue, Sue, Sue Dioooo

A great, great song. A personal favorite.

 

[GJB]

Phoenix CIII:Sue, Sue, Sue Dioooo

GOOD one