Phoenix CII: Oh, the pain the pain

[These Are The Days]

If worst comes to worst are the Suns okay with sharing their house with the Yotes? The scheduling is bound to get nasty.

 

[IceAce]

Translation: More money to be made via relocation than being a secondary tenant with limited revenue streams

Although in a cruel twist of irony the markets most capable of handling a relocation at this point already have strong ownership groups who won't want to get into bed with IA.

 

[Glacial]

Per a few posts back... interesting. That explains the earlier information suggesting it was full steam ahead or relocation, not some Phoenix middle ground- the arena's already booked up; Glendale dropped the bomb on the Coyotes close enough to the next season that there was no room to squeeze them inbetween the Suns, concerts, and everything else.

Will the NHL fund the Coyotes for a full lame duck season as they fight the court case and go through discovery or would they cut their losses come June 30th (both in avoiding discovery and not funding next season)? Question: If they relocate, would this be the hastiest relocation in NHL history? (permanent, not counting roof collapses and the like)

 

[These Are The Days]

No way the NHL can lame duck a whole season. No freaking way. They'd hastily move the Yotes before they did that.

 

[GordonGraham]

Coyotes will look elsewhere if they lose lawsuit.....

http://www.tsn.ca/coyotes-will-eye-other-cities-if-team-loses-lawsuit-1.310073

Really so its not Phoenix the league would not charge them a relo fee to go there

If they remain owners its not quebec city(quebecor), not las vegas(foley), not seattle( they cant afford to put money up for new rink)

Portlant ? KC ? Hamilton?

Where else could they go

 

[IceAce]

I'd have to think that any arena is going to have the same issues as America West at this point. Don't think the Yotes have any other options than GRA here, at least not with IA retaining ownership.

 

[JimAnchower]

If worst comes to worst are the Suns okay with sharing their house with the Yotes? The scheduling is bound to get nasty.

Since it seems it is unlikely for the upcoming season, I'll look at for future years. The simple answer is that the Suns would be ok with as long they get the same amount of money. Now could the Coyotes then be able to get enough money for themselves?

 

[Glacial]

Really so its not Phoenix the league would not charge them a relo fee to go there

If they remain owners its not quebec city(quebecor), not las vegas(foley), not seattle( they cant afford to put money up for new rink)

Portlant ? KC ? Hamilton?

Where else could they go

Yeah, I assumed in no possible timeline are the Coyotes in Quebec still owned/controlled by IceArizona.

They would have to be able to work out a deal with that arena. Portland would need to work around the Trail Blazers and whatever else they have. Hamilton might raise a separate fight between Toronto & Buffalo. This could lead to a real wild card location, like Houston or some place off the radar.

 

[Fugu]

Coyotes will look elsewhere if they lose lawsuit.....

http://www.tsn.ca/coyotes-will-eye-other-cities-if-team-loses-lawsuit-1.310073

On Monday, the Coyotes announced that majority owner Andrew Barroway had reduced his investment in the team. A source told TSN his share of the Coyotes was cut from 51 per cent to about 30 per cent.

Barroway had obtained a loan, or vendor's note, from some of his partners to fund his purchase, and that note was to be repaid by month's end.

Interesting note regarding Barroway

So did anyone put any cash into this acquisition?

The NHL basically suspended any and all limits and requirements they've had in place for acquisitions (<50% financed).

That only means one thing. They still own the team.

 

[wildcat48]

Not sure this has been posted, but ...

Fact Check: Coyotes CEO mostly wrong on arena cost



http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/fact-check/2015/06/16/fact-check-leblanc-arizona-coyotes/28832885/

You mean Ol' Tony wasn't telling it straight???? No way. I don't believe it......

 

[IceAce]

Portland is only an option if it's owned by Paul Allen. Same goes for Houston with Les Alexander.

IA is really painted into a corner here.

 

[Killion]

Per a few posts back... interesting. That explains the earlier information suggesting it was full steam ahead or relocation, not some Phoenix middle ground- the arena's already booked up; Glendale dropped the bomb on the Coyotes close enough to the next season that there was no room to squeeze them inbetween the Suns, concerts, and everything else.

Will the NHL fund the Coyotes for a full lame duck season as they fight the court case and go through discovery or would they cut their losses come June 30th (both in avoiding discovery and not funding next season)? Question: If they relocate, would this be the hastiest relocation in NHL history? (permanent, not counting roof collapses and the like)

Moving the team immediately strikes me as remote. No, I think they'll go through the motions, cover the losses themselves, bark loudly then split next year blaming Glendale. The NHL Disinformation PR Machines on full, reporters, pundits & editorialists excoriating the City. Espousing false narratives, revising history, creating parallel universes. Glendale's not playing that game and until we see what theyve got when they File & how strong a case, provided they dont crater & stick to their guns this will be far more embarrassing for the NHL & IA than the City. The league & IA know this. So the Bullying continues in the hopes they'll back down, reverse the vote, back off. Thing is, they cant. Not now. Trigger was pulled. Fuse lit. Be far worse for them if they did, their political careers in tatters.

 

[Mightygoose]

Yeah, I don't think of any scenario where IA retains the team in a new location. They'll need to sell.

Yet, if the league are the real owners here, they won't have any issues selling off to out of town hopefuls and send Tony and his band on their merry way

 

[Hynh]

Question: If they relocate, would this be the hastiest relocation in NHL history? (permanent, not counting roof collapses and the like)

Reading through Wikipedia, it seems most were decided in May or earlier. The Avalanche didn't complete their sale until July 1 but had previously announced intentions to buy and move the team. Oakland was granted permission to move on July 14 but presumably had been in discussions far before that. Cleveland merged with Minnesota on June 14. Wikipedia doesn't have anything on Kansas going to Denver.

 

[danishh]

So did anyone put any cash into this acquisition?

The NHL basically suspended any and all limits and requirements they've had in place for acquisitions (<50% financed).

That only means one thing. They still own the team.

that cant be. I just saw a bettman interview where he explicitly said "there's ownership now, in arizona".

 

[These Are The Days]

Since it seems it is unlikely for the upcoming season, I'll look at for future years. The simple answer is that the Suns would be ok with as long they get the same amount of money. Now could the Coyotes then be able to get enough money for themselves?

I think the same but the Coyotes are in a "I need to crash in your place for possibly a couple of years and I kinda need to do it now" *nervous chuckle* "sorry bro"

The NBA and NHL would have to strictly cooperate on all Coyotes/Suns home games

 

[Fugu]

that cant be. I just saw a bettman interview where he explicitly said "we have ownership in arizona now".

I know, but let's look at the numbers.

LeBlanc had his tongue wagging again, so he said they had about $70-80 MM in capital to get things rolling at the outset.

In theory, they bought the team from the NHL for $170 MM-- $80 MM from FIG and $85 MM from the NHL (deferred loan).

The most any one guy put up was $35-40 MM (Gosbee), allegedly. Everyone else in the group reportedly only put in $1-2 MM, or something rather small.


When Barroway came along, he supposedly was going to put in ~$30-35 MM cash infusion into the team's operating costs. Now he's backed off the amount he will own.

The NHL LOC allows up to $120 MM per team in borrowing.

These numbers do not add up to an acquisition.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

Since the hearings go into August, how is anything but a lameduck season in Glendale possible?

 

[Wolf357]

Really so its not Phoenix the league would not charge them a relo fee to go there

If they remain owners its not quebec city(quebecor), not las vegas(foley), not seattle( they cant afford to put money up for new rink)

Portlant ? KC ? Hamilton?

Where else could they go

Toronto 2... There is talk of different relocation fee depending on where the team goes..NHL wants a huge relo fee and its Toronto.
It works..its a quick fix and a massive amount of Money..
It would work similar to L.A..with the Kings, Lakers, and Clippers playing in the same arena during the winter months.

Here is a Article about it from a year ago in the Toronto Sun

http://blogs.canoe.com/parker/news/...oronto-will-get-a-second-nhl-team-at-the-acc/

 

[Howler Scores]

NBA schedule was released on August 13 last year. The AFL season ends on August 29th at the arena bowl. The first Coyotes preseason game is scheduled for September 21st in California. How is Talking Stick Arena already booked up?

 

[danishh]

I know, but let's look at the numbers.

LeBlanc had his tongue wagging again, so he said they had about $70-80 MM in capital to get things rolling at the outset.

In theory, they bought the team from the NHL for $170 MM-- $80 MM from FIG and $85 MM from the NHL (deferred loan).

The most any one guy put up was $35-40 MM (Gosbee), allegedly. Everyone else in the group reportedly only put in $1-2 MM, or something rather small.


When Barroway came along, he supposedly was going to put in ~$30-35 MM cash infusion into the team's operating costs. Now he's backed off the amount he will own.

The NHL LOC allows up to $120 MM per team in borrowing.

These numbers do not add up to an acquisition.

well yes, technically, they never had 50% cash in unless you count FIG money as cash in, and then you have to consider LOC usage as a replacement for FIG. Or maybe you discount the 85M deferred loan, and then they did in fact have 50% cash (barely) against the remaining 85M purchase price, and the FIG loan was funding the other 50% of the purchase and operating costs on paper.

wait, do they still owe 85M to the NHL?

 

[IceAce]

Toronto 2... There is talk of different relocation fee depending on where the team goes..NHL wants a huge relo fee and its Toronto.
It works..its a quick fix and a massive amount of Money..
It would work similar to L.A..with the Kings, Lakers, and Clippers playing in the same arena during the winter months.

Here is a Article about it from a year ago in the Toronto Sun

http://blogs.canoe.com/parker/news/...oronto-will-get-a-second-nhl-team-at-the-acc/

LOL even if the league could get the Leafs to sign off on this (and that's a GIANT if) IceArizona wouldn't be able to afford that kind of relo fee.

 

[JimAnchower]

NBA schedule was released on August 13 last year. The AFL season ends on August 29th at the arena bowl. The first Coyotes preseason game is scheduled for September 21st in California. How is Talking Stick Arena already booked up?

The schedules aren't made overnight. They take several weeks, perhaps even months, to do. While there may be 41 days open for the Coyotes, they won't all work for them. There is a knock-on effect for almost every other team if you change just a few dates. This is because you have check that all their schedules still work and follow the rules, like a team can't play three days in a row.

 

[Killion]

So did anyone put any cash into this acquisition?

The NHL basically suspended any and all limits and requirements they've had in place for acquisitions (<50% financed).

That only means one thing. They still own the team.

Of that Im convinced..... Whats not clear obviously, and huge question mark is that very question you raise. Did any of them put anything down at all? Or are these individuals all merely interchangeable actors? While wealthy enough individually, certainly not in the league of NHL ownership nor even are they collectively if pooling all of their resources. Like a revolving door of cast & characters. Gosbee, then Barroway, now 2 minority partners purportedly buying 21% of Barroways shares with who exactly now becoming Majority Owners? About as clear as a glass of mud. Not only is IceArizona a shell of a corporation but these individuals, like shift workers on the midway of some Carnival working the booth playing a shell game, manipulating the Rubes.

So you have to ask yourself, whats in it for them? Individually & collectively. Why are they doing this? Whats the payoff, the reward beyond the obvious of ego, that in name at least they "own part of an NHL franchise". And if one was so inclined to do some serious digging into each individuals businesses & interests I think we just might find some answers. Anthony LeBlanc has created some serious wealth for himself. He's not making that kind of money working as a Lobbyist in Ottawa. Failed run for a Seat in Thunder Bay/Lakehead. Lucked out working for RIM back in the day. Right place right time. Now he's got the bones, the bona-fides', this goes south Im sure some other NHL team hires him. Don Waddell had no problems & look at how he messed up in Atlanta? Guy like Tony, could be very useful in a place like Sunrise or Carolina at least temporarily.

that cant be. I just saw a bettman interview where he explicitly said "there's ownership now, in arizona".

... yeah, how bout that danishh.... and wheres that stache' avy of yours?... kinda miss it.

 

[danishh]

Of that Im convinced..... Whats not clear obviously, and huge question mark is that very question you raise. Did any of them put anything down at all? Or are these individuals all merely interchangeable actors? While wealthy enough individually, certainly not in the league of NHL ownership nor even are they collectively if pooling all of their resources. Like a revolving door of cast & characters. Gosbee, then Barroway, now 2 minority partners purportedly buying 21% of Barroways shares with who exactly now becoming Majority Owners? About as clear as a glass of mud. Not only is IceArizona a shell of a corporation but these individuals, like shift workers on the midway of some Carnival working the booth playing a shell game, manipulating the Rubes.

So you have to ask yourself, whats in it for them? Individually & collectively. Why are they doing this? Whats the payoff, the reward beyond the obvious of ego, that in name at least they "own part of an NHL franchise". And if one was so inclined to do some serious digging into each individuals businesses & interests I think we just might find some answers. Anthony LeBlanc has created some serious wealth for himself. He's not making that kind of money working as a Lobbyist in Ottawa. Failed run for a Seat in Thunder Bay/Lakehead. Lucked out working for RIM back in the day. Right place right time. Now he's got the bones, the bona-fides', this goes south Im sure some other NHL team hires him. Don Waddell had no problems & look at how he messed up in Atlanta?



... yeah, how bout that danishh.... and wheres that stache' avy of yours?... kinda miss it.

who hone the chiefs indeed.


Macstache had to go, that frenchman hit the road 6 months ago. No point living in the past.