Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XV - SITREP: SNAFU

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MsMeow

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Nov 4, 2005
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I look back at attendance figures re Winnipeg, Quebec, and now Phoenix.

http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/ind..._average_attendance_since_1989_90/118-2008-09

I see no reason to cheer for a move from where the Coyotes are, and the grief that would cause to hockey fans in Arizona.

If you wish to make it seven, make it the right way, and for the right reasons.

Cheers, Coyote fans.

For the millionth time, there is no right way when it comes to this. The NHL blocked JB from the get go so he found another way. Also, when comparing attendance, you also need to compare cost of the ticket. Phx charges wayyyy less than teams in established hockey cities. That's the only fair comparison.
 

Vinny Boombatz

formerly ctwin22
Mar 21, 2008
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For the millionth time and one, there is a right way when it comes to this and JB has proved time over time he doesn't want to do it the right way.

So "No NHL for you" period!
 

Fugu

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I think that's a bit of an oversimplification. The Balsillie bid throws Glendale under the bus right away, but at least offers up more cash so they get something. The NHL's bid throws Glendale under the bus less than a year from now, and gives them nothing. Categorizing the NHL's bid as one that doesn't incur an additional creditor is disingenuous. Glendale will be left with nothing, and the NHL will move the Coyotes to KC if the NHL wins this bid. I don't think a judge will fall for it, to be honest.

I do wonder why the NHL didn't try to take care of Glendale in its offer? I know they need some leverage to try to negotiate new terms, etc., but this really does appear disingenuous. Would a bankruptcy judge really award the asset to a bidder and expect Moyes to retain the most difficult piece of this puzzle AFTER he loses the team itself? I do realize the NHL's offer has a requirement that Moyes agree to this, but why would he even consider it? He's better off paying them the $30 MM (assuming they can collect) than trying to extricate himself from Glendale's potential claim w/o the benefit of a bankruptcy.
 

MotorMaster

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For the millionth time and one, there is a right way when it comes to this and JB has proved time over time he doesn't want to do it the right way.

So "No NHL for you" period!

The right way isn't going to get Jim a team in Hamilton the back door is the only way for him to have any chance at getting a team.
 

lillypad33

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Sep 20, 2008
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The right way isn't going to get Jim a team in Hamilton the back door is the only way for him to have any chance at getting a team.

Just wondering where the NHL's 7 year non-relocation provision is in their bid for Phoenix?

They can purchase a team and move it, or others can purchase and move it, but Jim has to keep one around for 7 years?
 

LadyStanley

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http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coyotes/articles/2009/09/02/20090902coyotesfans0902-CP.html
Passionate Coyotes fans in the court room today



http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/story.html?id=1952488
Canwest hearing preview



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/canucks-owners-sniffed-around-coyotes/article1272820/
The mother of the family that owns the Vancouver Canucks made a pitch to buy the Phoenix Coyotes for her husband this year, U.S. court filings reveal.

Elisa Aquilini offered to buy the Coyotes a couple of months before the club filed for Chapter 11 protection from creditors so that her husband, Luigi, could own an NHL team, according to documents filed in an Arizona bankruptcy court.
 

Jarqui

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Just wondering where the NHL's 7 year non-relocation provision is in their bid for Phoenix?

They can purchase a team and move it, or others can purchase and move it, but Jim has to keep one around for 7 years?

Any NHL owner, if they can establish the team's situation in it's present location is not financially viable, can apply for relocation before the end of the seven year clause.
 

LadyStanley

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http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2009/9/2/1012065/how-the-hamilton-coyotes-would

Interesting table summarizing the changes in travel NHL teams would face if the Coyotes move to Hamilton. The three division teams in California would each add about 10k to their travel, or in increase of 20% of miles traveled. (And that doesn't even take in the multiple back-to-back situations that would violate league rules that a team travels no more than 2.5 hours on a game day.)
 

lillypad33

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Any NHL owner, if they can establish the team's situation in it's present location is not financially viable, can apply for relocation before the end of the seven year clause.

They clearly filed a document which stated that the Pittsburgh sale was provisional on Balsille signing a 7 year non-movement commitment.
My question is where is this same commitment from them in their bid for the Coyotes?
 

CGG

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Jan 6, 2005
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I do wonder why the NHL didn't try to take care of Glendale in its offer? I know they need some leverage to try to negotiate new terms, etc., but this really does appear disingenuous. Would a bankruptcy judge really award the asset to a bidder and expect Moyes to retain the most difficult piece of this puzzle AFTER he loses the team itself? I do realize the NHL's offer has a requirement that Moyes agree to this, but why would he even consider it? He's better off paying them the $30 MM (assuming they can collect) than trying to extricate himself from Glendale's potential claim w/o the benefit of a bankruptcy.

The NHL keeps trumpeting their bid as "unconditional", which is a farce as well. One gigantic condition is Moyes somehow agreeing or being forced by the court to support it, which seems like a stretch as it involves un-bankrupting a currently-bankrupt entity for the benefit of the NHL only, and almost assuredly leads to another bankruptcy in less than a year, only this time there would be zero assets for the Arena Management company and a gigantic $700 million claim from Glendale.
 

CGG

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Any NHL owner, if they can establish the team's situation in it's present location is not financially viable, can apply for relocation before the end of the seven year clause.

And the NHL BOG has absolute power to deny that application saddling money-losing owner to a terrible market for 7 years, unless of course the owner wants to move to AEG's shiny new arena in Kansas City.

If anyone actually thinks the NHL is doing all this in an attempt to keep the team in Phoenix long-term, I think you're sadly mistaken.
 

LadyStanley

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Sep 22, 2004
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http://www.thestar.com/article/689711
McGran previews hearing


http://www.thestar.com/article/689713
Phil Esposito speaks out in support of Bettman
"What he's done is ridiculous," Esposito says of Balsillie. "You've gotta go through the rules. Buy the team first, then follow their rules. That's the way it works. That's what we did in Tampa. They gave us a book and we followed the book."

Hamilton?

"I don't think Hamilton's the right place to put a team. Toronto can afford another team, I have no doubt, but not Hamilton. It's too close to Buffalo, for one thing, and that arena (in Hamilton) needs $200 million of upgrades? Ridiculous. You can't play there."

Bettman?

"This is not a little business. This is a big business. Whether you like him or not, Gary Bettman is trying to do the right thing here."
 

LadyStanley

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In looking at the court calendar for today's hearing, I don't think I noticed that Baum will "hear" (or rule) on whether Moyes' ownership is equity or a loan.
 

Grabovski

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Aug 12, 2009
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Hamilton?

"I don't think Hamilton's the right place to put a team. Toronto can afford another team, I have no doubt, but not Hamilton. It's too close to Buffalo, for one thing, and that arena (in Hamilton) needs $200 million of upgrades? Ridiculous. You can't play there."

Esposito is an idiot if he thinks Hamilton is not a good place to put it. The 09-10 season tickets are already sold out for Hamilton because they started selling them. And tell me when was the last time Phoenix sold out? And how isn't Copps Colliseum a good arena, it already fits 17,000 people and with $250M it would fit $20,000.
 

Predaceous

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May 8, 2009
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Just wondering where the NHL's 7 year non-relocation provision is in their bid for Phoenix?

They can purchase a team and move it, or others can purchase and move it, but Jim has to keep one around for 7 years?

Bill Daly has already stated in the court documents that the 7 year clause exists for all teams, however, the NHL has the right to waive the clause if they so choose.

D
 

Jarqui

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They clearly filed a document which stated that the Pittsburgh sale was provisional on Balsille signing a 7 year non-movement commitment.
My question is where is this same commitment from them in their bid for the Coyotes?

They also clearly filed a document showing that there was a side letter agreement to that seven year clause that detailed what the parties had agreed to for getting out of the seven year clause.

And it couldn't have been that unpalatable because Rodier made reference to those terms when he proposed to Leipold on how they might structure the Preds deal to make it acceptable to the NHL.

That nonsense about the Pens deal claimed by Balsillie has been hammered pretty good by copies of letters and emails between the parties filed into the court.

In fact, Rodier discusses the seven year clause in an email of Sep 11, 2006 - before they had received their first copy of the standard consent agreement from the NHL in October, 2006. In other words, Balsillie's claim to the media that the 7 year clause got dropped in at the last minute was false when they knew full well about the clause being standard in NHL agreements three months before and before they'd even seen a consent agreement from the NHL.

Secondly, after Balsilie bailed on the Pens deal, the emails confirmed this as they tried to salvage the deal.

Thirdly, from the NHL brief "discovery has confirmed that PSE's assertions that the NHL had agreed prior to December 4th to exclude a seven year non relocation provision from the agreement is plainly false. ... " (etc - see page 34):
http://docs.bmcgroup.com/phoenixcoyotes/docs/azb_2-09-bk-9488_863_0.pdf

Balsillie's public position to the media and his position in this court case on what went down with the Pens got skewered with evidence and testimony where when confronted with the documents, their story had to shift or be retracted.
 

Space Herpe

Arch Duke of Raleigh
Aug 29, 2008
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So many posts!

I'm gonna cut to the chase instead of wading through these posts.

I heard/read that Baum might rule today whether if JB can own the team despite the NHL's vote.

Yes?
No?
Maybe?

If so, I'm guessing it'll be in the afternoon (since I'm on the East Coast.)

-I'm gonna get around to reading the last 10 pages or so in this thread in about 15 mintues. (Just trying to prove I'm not that lazy.)
 

CGG

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Jan 6, 2005
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Touching back on the media coverage discussion earlier, it's painful to read articles with depictions like this:
Balsillie later agreed to purchase the Predators for $238 million US from Craig Leipold in 2007, and began a season-ticket drive in Hamilton when Leipold had second thoughts and scuttled the deal.

It seems the NHL agrees with the characterization that it was Leipold that scutteled the deal. From the NHL's filing yesterday:

The day after Mr. Leipold had called off the deal, Mr. Balsillie filed for "conditional relocation" of the Predators' franchise...
 

New User Name

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Jan 2, 2008
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On the subject of Jim and the Pens I believe that if Jim wanted to move them (had he bought them) there was a clause that forced him to sell them to the NHL if he wanted to relocate them.
I could be wrong, but if I'm not, so much for a 7 year clause.
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
I do wonder why the NHL didn't try to take care of Glendale in its offer? I know they need some leverage to try to negotiate new terms, etc., but this really does appear disingenuous. Would a bankruptcy judge really award the asset to a bidder and expect Moyes to retain the most difficult piece of this puzzle AFTER he loses the team itself? I do realize the NHL's offer has a requirement that Moyes agree to this, but why would he even consider it? He's better off paying them the $30 MM (assuming they can collect) than trying to extricate himself from Glendale's potential claim w/o the benefit of a bankruptcy.
JB's offer does exactly that (leave the estate with the lease issue).
 
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