Post-Game Talk: Phoenix 3, Penguins 1. One? ONE? ONE *** **** GOAL?

[IcedCapp]

I don't understand... why DON'T we want rookies in the playoffs? How many times have you seen rookies step up and play big time parts? Guys that make huge names for themselves and become playoff performers.

That pisses me off when people say rookies don't deserve the playoffs.

I don't know where this notion that a young player can't contribute came from.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I don't understand... why DON'T we want rookies in the playoffs? How many times have you seen rookies step up and play big time parts? Guys that make huge names for themselves and become playoff performers.

That pisses me off when people say rookies don't deserve the playoffs.

last year we added experience. To me, it really looked like we needed some youthful energy and excitement instead.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I don't understand... why DON'T we want rookies in the playoffs? How many times have you seen rookies step up and play big time parts? Guys that make huge names for themselves and become playoff performers.

That pisses me off when people say rookies don't deserve the playoffs.

Think of it this way.

Why trade your 72 Chevy corsair that reminds you of when you were a kid for a soulless brand new Kia. A korean car? Nah, I would rather stay with the corsair that is half rusted through and that the dog threw up in because it reminds me of me you know.

 

[Allie Kitsune]

Them knowing what they did wrong and then talking about what they're doing later. Mario said no more whiffle ball because he's a meanie, they're trying to find something new.

Because seriously, they know what they're doing wrong with the big things, they can't not and they know enough to ****ing say what they did wrong or need to change. They're just struggling to change it, at which point someone above the players should be getting involved.

We're also in the oh so exciting position of watching an injury prone team with a really nice cushion just coast to the playoffs trying to stay healthy facing desperate teams; some of them are trying to be ready for the Olympics. It's not going to be fun. They're not 100% wrong in doing it either.

Maybe, but that's not going to stop people from angsting that our team can't play the sort of disciplined, tight-defense, consistent game that the teams that embarrass us always seem to play. And THEY'RE not wrong, either.

 

[ColePens]

Think of it this way.

Why trade your 72 Chevy corsair that reminds you of when you were a kid for a soulless brand new Kia. A korean car? Nah, I would rather stay with the corsair that is half rusted through and that the dog threw up in because it reminds me of me you know.

last year we added experience. To me, it really looked like we needed some youthful energy and excitement instead.

I don't know where this notion that a young player can't contribute came from.

I sometimes cannot understand how so many people see it and the coaches/staff just refuse to. At least w/ MT it was the fact the players gave up and the whole flow of what happened made sense. With DB, nothing makes sense. It just happens to the sake of happening.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Of course rookies can step up....we've seen it in the past with teams. I'm talking having half the lineup filled with them.

I don't want Orpik and Adams playing in the postseason either.

My post was in response to people being glad dupuis got hurt and actually thinking Gibbons would provide more come playoff time. That's a joke. He's loved right now because he's new and has shown flashes. But this fan base would turn on him just as quick as everyone else (who doesn't put up elite numbers) if he doesn't perform well.

Bennett will be back and I'm guessing they will decide to go with him on the first line, if there's no trade out there for a Cammelleri type player. If that's the case, we need to add someone with experience for the 3rd line. Someone like Ott.

You don't want to have to rely on both Gibbons and Megna for the bottom six. Especially with no other options. What if they don't do well? Glass gets promoted to 3rd line ? We need to add a solid vet for that bottom six. And I'm not talking about guys with one foot in the grave like Morrow.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I sometimes cannot understand how so many people see it and the coaches/staff just refuse to. At least w/ MT it was the fact the players gave up and the whole flow of what happened made sense. With DB, nothing makes sense. It just happens to the sake of happening.

I want to post smug bylsma so bad. I will resist the urge.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Of course rookies can step up....we've seen it in the past with teams. I'm talking having half the lineup filled with them.

I don't want Orpik and Adams playing in the postseason either.

My post was in response to people being glad dupuis got hurt and actually thinking Gibbons would provide more come playoff time. That's a joke. He's loved right now because he's new and has shown flashes. But this fan base would turn on him just as quick as everyone else (who doesn't put up elite numbers) if he doesn't perform well.

Bennett will be back and I'm guessing they will decide to go with him on the first line, if there's no trade out there for a Cammelleri type player. If that's the case, we need to add someone with experience for the 3rd line. Someone like Ott.

You don't want to have to rely on both Gibbons and Megna for the bottom six. Especially with no other options. What if they don't do well? Glass gets promoted to 3rd line ? We need to add a solid vet for that bottom six. And I'm not talking about guys with one foot in the grave like Morrow.

I agree with that. I missed most of the game last night, but the only reference to anyone saying Gibbons is better than Dupuis that I've seen is you referring to other people saying it. I don't think its a common opinion at all.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

This is what I meant to post about rookies in the playoffs:

Wildcard, *****es!

 

[Ogrezilla]

This is what I meant to post about rookies in the playoffs:

Wildcard, *****es!

I cut the breaks! WIldcard *****es! Heeeeeeeeeeeee haaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwww!

Might be the best moment of that show. That or Rock Flag and Eagle

 

[mpp9]

Gibbons is a more skilled player than Dupuis. That's not an outrageous statement. He's shown he can set his linemates up with some regularity. Dupuis has never done that.

Where Gibbons will falter is when the physical play is ramped up and there are alot more puck battles along the wall. That's not his forte. Which is why I'd rather see him in a bottom six role where he won't be going up against the tough matchups.

He's an NHL player. Just not a top line RW. A decent stopgap in the meantime though.

 

[BronzeSpruce]

Fact of the matter is. Until Shero pulls the trigger on a big trade to get us some forward depth we are merely the Washington capitals of a few years ago, all the wins, all the stats but simply not built for the playoffs.

Although Gibbons has played well with the Crosby line he has no business playing in the top 6 on any team at the NHL level let alone with Crosby. That's just a testimate to how badly Shero has done in the draft with forwards. Sheros philosophy has been stockpile Dman depth to use to acquire the needs of the team.......Well im waiting Ray.

This team goes nowhere in the playoffs as currently constructed. Ray has got his hands full here, I hope he has the balls to do what needs to be done.

 

[Ogrezilla]

see, I agree we aren't built how we should be. But I still think we are at worst the 2nd best team in the east and have a better chance than most of making it to the finals. My complaining comes from me believing we could pretty easily be the leaguewide favorite.

 

[BronzeSpruce]

Agreed, the Poor play of the east has really helped hide all the flaws.

I don't think we get past Boston if it comes to that and I certainly don't think we can win a cup with this team. Im not really looking to get to the finals to get blown out but a Anaheim Chicago or St Louis.

 

[madinsomniac]

Fact of the matter is. Until Shero pulls the trigger on a big trade to get us some forward depth we are merely the Washington capitals of a few years ago, all the wins, all the stats but simply not built for the playoffs.

Although Gibbons has played well with the Crosby line he has no business playing in the top 6 on any team at the NHL level let alone with Crosby. That's just a testimate to how badly Shero has done in the draft with forwards. Sheros philosophy has been stockpile Dman depth to use to acquire the needs of the team.......Well im waiting Ray.

This team goes nowhere in the playoffs as currently constructed. Ray has got his hands full here, I hope he has the balls to do what needs to be done.

If, and this is a big if, the Bysma coached American squad underperforms in the Olympics, and the Pens team comes out flat afterwards, I think there is a shot that we see a coaching change before the playoffs... here is the Pens schedule in March... its not exactly nice:

@ Chicago- Sat, Mar 1
@ Nashville- Tue, Mar 4
@ San Jose- Thu, Mar 6
@ Anaheim- Fri, Mar 7
@ Washington- Mon, Mar 10
vs Washington- Tue, Mar 11
@ Philadelphia- Sat, Mar 15
vs Philadelphia- Sun, Mar 16
vs Dallas- Tue, Mar 18
@ Detroit- Thu, Mar 20
vs Tampa Bay- Sat, Mar 22
vs St. Louis- Sun, Mar 23
vs Phoenix- Tue, Mar 25
vs Los Angeles- Thu, Mar 27
@ Columbus- Fri, Mar 28
vs Chicago- Sun, Mar 30


The home and homes at Philly and Washington is probably the easiest stretch there. that's not exactly gravy either

 

[Ogrezilla]

Agreed, the Poor play of the east has really helped hide all the flaws.

I don't think we get past Boston if it comes to that and I certainly don't think we can win a cup with this team. Im not really looking to get to the finals to get blown out but a Anaheim Chicago or St Louis.

I wouldn't pick us over most of those teams, but we can beat them. We will just be fighting an uphill battle. Out of the teams likely to make it from the West, Anaheim and SJS would be the two I'd most want to play.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Nobody wants anything close to half the line-up to be rookies. People want Bennett in, People want Megna and possibly Gibbons in over scrubs in the bottom 6, people want Maatta in and people want Despres or Bortuzzo in over Orpik. And with the forwards, we'd rather make trades, but the rookies are better than the scrubs. Which of those do you disagree with?

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Nobody wants anything close to half the line-up to be rookies. So I don't know who you are arguing with.

It was an exaggeration. I mentioned 5 rookies in my original post. Which people responded to saying they don't understand why wouldn't we want to play rookies. I didn't mean one or two, I meant replacing all of the vets people here don't like with unproven ahl call ups. Instead I see it as having great depth. Obviously I'd love to replace Orpik and Adams but I'm just trying to be realistic. I see no need talking about it everyday when there's zero chance of it happening.

As I said, no way would I want them to rely on those guys in the bottom six considering there's nobody else to come in if they don't do well. I'd rather add a solid vet for the bottom six, and have one of Gibbons/Megna play on 3rd line with that acquisition and Sutter. The other guy used for depth. Fresh legs when needed.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I don't understand... why DON'T we want rookies in the playoffs? How many times have you seen rookies step up and play big time parts? Guys that make huge names for themselves and become playoff performers.

That pisses me off when people say rookies don't deserve the playoffs.

For me it's like looking at the 2006/07 Pittsburgh Penguins, loaded with very young but very talented with high end stars. Greener than green, swept by the Ottawa Senators pretty much in 5 games in the first round.

Fast forward another year to 2007/08, they gain some much needed experience and beat teams they should considering their top talent level throughout the roster, com'n the Carolina Hurricanes in the conference finals....But only then, when they met up with a much more grizzled team in Detroit is where they were now back in unfamiliar territory and were caught in unknown for to much until it was too late to recover from.

By the time they got onto 2008/09 with the addition of players who been there and done that this team went onto the highest of highs. At this point there really wasn't any rookies per say. If you want to say Goligoski he'd be the only one. He played 2 games.

Check the roster for yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_Pittsburgh_Penguins_season


So..Where I'm going with all of this, teams can go on to win with rookies, but most likely those are far and few between.(Exception of the rule) A couple of rookies shouldn't deter you from making a long run or keep you from the Stanley Cup, but if you load half of your squad up with them I wouldn't be looking for any cup aspirations. I would put the Pens somewhere between the 2006/07 and 2008/09 Penguins as they stand now, baring trades that may happen.



In short, don't expect to win the cup loaded with rookies. *Common sense*

 

[Ogrezilla]

It was an exaggeration. I mentioned 5 rookies in my original post. Which people responded to saying they don't understand why wouldn't we want to play rookies. I didn't mean one or two, I meant replacing all of the vets people here don't like with unproven ahl call ups. Instead I see it as having great depth. Obviously I'd love to replace Orpik and Adams but I'm just trying to be realistic. I see no need talking about it everyday when there's zero chance of it happening.

As I said, no way would I want them to rely on those guys in the bottom six considering there's nobody else to come in if they don't do well. I'd rather add a solid vet for the bottom six, and have one of Gibbons/Megna play on 3rd line with that acquisition and Sutter. The other guy used for depth. Fresh legs when needed.

everyone here wants to make trades to fill the spots. But if we can't do that, our rookies are better than a lot of our vets.

Kunitz - Crosby - _____
Jussi - Malkin - Neal
_____ - Sutter - _____
_____ - Vitale - _____

Those five spots need filled, hopefully partially by trades. Our available players to fill them are
Adams, Glass, Pyatt, Connor, Megna, Bennett, Gibbons, Ebbet, Still, Kobasew and Engelland

Looking at that list, I would absolutely pick most of those rookies over the vets.

On defense, I'd play Maatta and one of Despres or Bortuzzo. And lets say we actually do trade Letang, I would have no problem playing all 3. They are all better than Orpik and Engelland.

I would rather play kids who might suck over vets who we know will suck.

 

[Ogrezilla]

For me it's like looking at the 2006/07 Pittsburgh Penguins, loaded with very young but very talented with high end stars. Greener than green, swept by the Ottawa Senators pretty much in 5 games in the first round.

Fast forward another year to 2007/08, they gain some much needed experience and beat teams they should considering their top talent level throughout the roster, com'n the Carolina Hurricanes in the conference finals....But only then, when they met up with a much more grizzled team in Detroit is where they were now back in unfamiliar territory and were caught in unknown for to much until it was too late to recover from.

By the time they got onto 2008/09 with the addition of players who been there and done that this team went onto the highest of highs. At this point there really wasn't any rookies per say. If you want to say Goligoski he'd be the only one. He played 2 games.

Check the roster for yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_Pittsburgh_Penguins_season


So..Where I'm going with all of this, teams can go on to win with rookies, but most likely those are far and few between.(Exception of the rule) A couple of rookies shouldn't deter you from making a long run or keep you from the Stanley Cup, but if you load half of your squad up with them I wouldn't be looking for any cup aspirations. I would put the Pens somewhere between the 2006/07 and 2008/09 Penguins as they stand now, baring trades that may happen.



In short, don't expect to win the cup loaded with rookies. *Common sense*

we want to make trades. BUt with the current roster, we have several rookies who are better than several vets.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I like our rookies. I'd like trade returns better, most likely.

 

[Frederick Stanley]

Back to topic.

 

[Ugene Magic]

we want to make trades. BUt with the current roster, we have several rookies who are better than several vets.

Better doesn't always equal to success when speaking of the playoffs.

Also, the rookies are playing mostly in reduced roles (smaller sample size) and mostly got larger roles due to injuries. Either way, I said one or two won't be the end all be all of their playoffs, but depth and vets rule the way in a much larger sample size.

This doesn't mean in any way that vets can't be sat and switch players in and out as needed. We've seen Adams sat for Vitale at times over the past couple seasons, this year is just seeing much more decimation of the bottom six, being, loss of veterans(FA/traded) and injuries.

I don't hold this post season to promising with more than 1 forward and 1 D-man rookie in these playoffs. They may get away with Maatta, Bennett, and one of Gibbons or Megna as every game players, but I'm very doubtful when you add Despres(who has some limited experience 6-games) and Bortuzzo - 0 games on top of it all. It's too much and they will be over-matched by the top grizzled teams in the league.

They could get away with this.

Kunitz, Crosby, *Trade*
Jokinen, Malkin, Neal
Bennett, Sutter, Megna (This line is probably the biggest question mark)
Glass, Vitale, Adams

Gibbons/Sill/Engelland

Scuderi, Letang
Orpik, Martin
Maatta, Niskanen

Despres, Bortuzzo

Lets remember these are the playoffs and the roster is not limited to 23 and guys can be brought in and out on a game by game basis. That's depth and how they win mostly should a player go down

 

[Ogrezilla]

Despres and Bortuzzo are better at hockey than Orpik. Sill and Gibbons are better at hockey than Adams. I really don't give a damn about their experience. Orpik and Adams suck. Our team has plenty of experience without them.

In short, I disagree with you entirely. It happens.