Player Discussion Phillip Danault 1st line 3rd C Edition

[Doc McKenna]

While I was doing some research on Danault and other players' ES production for this thread, I stumbled across an unbelievable stat:

In the 15 years since the first lockout, Max Domi had BY FAR the most ES points in a season for any Hab. He had 61 ES points in 2018-19!!!

By contrast, in the other 14 seasons, the team leader had
51/52 pts 3 times (always Pacioretty)
41-47 pts 6 times (used "pace" for lockout 48 game season in 12-13)
31-37 pts 4 times
29 points 1 time

Wow, I did not realize just how dominant Domi's previous season was. He was 7th in the league for ES points among centers. Unfortunately for Max, he did not produce much on the PP, or his salary right now would be a lot higher!

Yeah but we got fist thrower Anderson who despite any evidence will have to be better than Domi.

 

[Doc McKenna]

How much of the difference is due to Markov, Streit, and Hamrlik?

You know if I had to take a rookie and he looked like one of Markov, Subban, Webber or mcd, I take the Markov clone. Not just because of left side, just overall our best dman since chelios

 

[JianYang]

Nobody would take Kostitsyn's career over Radulov, but we aren't talking carreers, we are talking that 1 season. Kostitsyn was very good that 1 one season, and Radulov was good but he also needed time to readjust to the NHL game. I mean Radulov finished the season with 14 points in 14 games and 7 points in 6 playoff games, so yeah he was awesome, but it also took time for him to get to that point.

So yeah if we are talking careers I'd take Pacioretty/Radulov, but talking that 1 year, it's no contest it's Kovalev/Kostitsyn.



So you don't think players should be evaluated on a level playing field? That seems like a strange argument to make.

I actually never said that I'd take radulov's career over kostitsyn's career. I said that at no point in kostitsyn's career would I take him over Radulov. There's a difference.

Even 07/08, if the preds offered Radulov for kostitsyn 1 for 1, the habs would have a vehicle waiting at the airport faster than Gainey could say yes.

 

[BLONG7]

Danault's agent, Meehan says Bergevin has parked negotiations on a new deal for now............as much as MB loves Phil, it would seem speaking out after the flyers series did not serve him well.
Could Tatar stay, and Phil go?

 

[Benstheman]

So how will Suzuki/Kotkaniemi be ready to play tougher minutes against tougher opposition if they're sheltered away from it?

it’s a progression. And nothing is black or white. Some games, Suzuki’s line will be a better match for other team first line, some games it will not. Also, on the road, you don’t have the last line change.

having Danault around will benefit them greatly.

at the end, your real fear is toward Julien still playing Danault too much. And I get it. But I think he has great confidence in Suzuki’s ability to play a responsible game. And like everyone of us, he knows Suzuki is more of a threat offensively than Danault.

i think the issue right now is more about signing Danault to a good contract so he still has great value in 2-3 years when it’s time to trade him away.

 

[Benstheman]

Danault's agent, Meehan says Bergevin has parked negotiations on a new deal for now............as much as MB loves Phil, it would seem speaking out after the flyers series did not serve him well.
Could Tatar stay, and Phil go?

didn’t we just heard that a week ago with Gallagher?

although I agree, Danault won’t get that kind of money. I hope for a 6 years, 5M$ per contract. So in 2-3 years, when it’s time to trade him away, he will still have good terms at a reasonable AAV, while still in his prime, and gets us a good return.

 

[Doc McKenna]

it’s a progression. And nothing is black or white. Some games, Suzuki’s line will be a better match for other team first line, some games it will not. Also, on the road, you don’t have the last line change.

having Danault around will benefit them greatly.

at the end, your real fear is toward Julien still playing Danault too much. And I get it. But I think he has great confidence in Suzuki’s ability to play a responsible game. And like everyone of us, he knows Suzuki is more of a threat offensively than Danault.

i think the issue right now is more about signing Danault to a good contract so he still has great value in 2-3 years when it’s time to trade him away.

Suzuki is secondary. The problem is kk. We know Julien doesn't really like the kid that much. If he gets placed on 14 minutes a game so Phil can play 19 plus it does us no good for kks development. Esp if Suzuki is even more trusted and eats up even more playtime from kk. If you have Phil getting 19 and suz getting 17, forth will certainly get 11 or so, that leaves 13 for kk.

That is a bad scenario, it's not just about Suzuki. Even if Julien switches Danaults and Suzuki's times making Danault our second line, it still leaves very little opportunities for kk, who may be the better center overall. This is an important year for both kids. Tightrope for ice time and development with problems on both sides. Lots of scenarios from too much ice time for the rooks, a disgruntled Danault, possible injuries, sophomore slump for suz, a lot of moving parts.

Idealy we move Danault for a vet to play 3rd C and we get a pick or prospect. We don't worry about this year and let the kids have growing pains. However that doesn't work for our vet group. Why be a hab if you need to wait a season or 2 for players to mature a bit more. At the same time I doubt we have the right combination at present to go deep. If we resign tatar and or Danault does that handcuff the team? I don't like the mix we have at present and I know MB is like every season going for it because "anything can happen"

 

[BLONG7]

didn’t we just heard that a week ago with Gallagher?

although I agree, Danault won’t get that kind of money. I hope for a 6 years, 5M$ per contract. So in 2-3 years, when it’s time to trade him away, he will still have good terms at a reasonable AAV, while still in his prime, and gets us a good return.

Gally didn't whine after the playoff loss.....big difference.
As for Phil we need to keep him, but only at a reasonable amount of money....they may give him more term, but his cap hit has to be reasonable....this has been MB's message of sorts. There is only so much $$$ to go around.
Stay tuned...

 

[Benstheman]

Suzuki is secondary. The problem is kk. We know Julien doesn't really like the kid that much. If he gets placed on 14 minutes a game so Phil can play 19 plus it does us no good for kks development. Esp if Suzuki is even more trusted and eats up even more playtime from kk. If you have Phil getting 19 and suz getting 17, forth will certainly get 11 or so, that leaves 13 for kk.

That is a bad scenario, it's not just about Suzuki. Even if Julien switches Danaults and Suzuki's times making Danault our second line, it still leaves very little opportunities for kk, who may be the better center overall. This is an important year for both kids. Tightrope for ice time and development with problems on both sides. Lots of scenarios from too much ice time for the rooks, a disgruntled Danault, possible injuries, sophomore slump for suz, a lot of moving parts.

Idealy we move Danault for a vet to play 3rd C and we get a pick or prospect. We don't worry about this year and let the kids have growing pains. However that doesn't work for our vet group. Why be a hab if you need to wait a season or 2 for players to mature a bit more. At the same time I doubt we have the right combination at present to go deep. If we resign tatar and or Danault does that handcuff the team? I don't like the mix we have at present and I know MB is like every season going for it because "anything can happen"

habs definitely is a playoffs team at the moment. They will ride Danault and Tatar until the end of the year. Tatar won’t be resign and Danault ?? I don’t know. Maybe in his case, they will wait after a certain amount of games to see how it turns out?? Don’t know. It’s a tough spot for MB. What I know is he wants to win now. His recent moves prove it.

 

[Roadhouse]

Tightrope for ice time and development with problems on both sides. Lots of scenarios from too much ice time for the rooks, a disgruntled Danault, possible injuries, sophomore slump for suz, a lot of moving parts.

If we resign tatar and or Danault does that handcuff the team?

Just came here to say I fully agree with this year's context piece & million dollar question, above. A whole lot in this hinges on KK's motor, because I do believe he is by far the better centre on the long term. It's how his next 1-2 years of development I'm not exactly sure should be handled, particularly with a 'hungry' Danault this year who has been left in limbo (of all players!!!) by Berge-au-vin maintenant en vacances.

Phil will never ever replicate this. He was 23 years old. And I will remember this all my life I'm pretty sure. Out of control laughter on the night. Whereas in the second clip, the out of control laughter is still there because that's a 6'0+ 18 year old centre on ELC absolutely ripping it from the low-middle slot. Odds are, KK is able to replicate this and make it routine. That's a bomb of an upside on an offensively starved team such as the Habs.

 

[tazsub3]

Danault's agent, Meehan says Bergevin has parked negotiations on a new deal for now............as much as MB loves Phil, it would seem speaking out after the flyers series did not serve him well.
Could Tatar stay, and Phil go?

Funny enough for that i respect MB, at least he reacting on that same for all, no pref treatment for a local player

 

[Doc McKenna]

habs definitely is a playoffs team at the moment. They will ride Danault and Tatar until the end of the year. Tatar won’t be resign and Danault ?? I don’t know. Maybe in his case, they will wait after a certain amount of games to see how it turns out?? Don’t know. It’s a tough spot for MB. What I know is he wants to win now. His recent moves prove it.

I don't know if he wants to win now. I see him trade a problem, sign a depth dman(like usual) and finally land his first decent free agent since radulov. The last time we thought he was in win now mode to say we had to reset the next summer.

If Anderson isn't what's advertised we are only slightly better than last year. If we are a wild card team the metro division is super strong. So we are not "most definitely a playoff team" if you aren't top3 in your division you are a bubble team hoping for rookies to be great, no injuries, everything fall into the right spot. So that's why I don't have us penned in for the playoff tree before we see a single game. Nothing this off season says we moved up 8 spots let alone 12.

I say this so we don't get disappointed when it doesn't happen. We can look for how the kids developed like last season, at least.

We moved a number of parts at the trade deadline last year and a 44 point domi (horrible year to many) for a player who had a major injury, only had one year above 30 points and will be 27 this season that we signed for a huge amount of time even though he had 4 points in 26 games most recently. Like many things it's another gamble by MB.

Everyone assumes he will bounce back. But to what? A 30 point winger? 5.5 for a half dozen years and people want to toss Byron who has comparable stats but for a lot less contract. Just pointing out caution with this player. Because if he doesn't regain his form, is he an upgrade over kovalchuk and cousins? Toffoli would be Domi replacement but it hardly makes us an automatic playoff team over last season.

Romanov could be a huge win, long term. But he will need an adjustment period and hopefully we allow him at least half a season to do so.

 

[Benstheman]

I don't know if he wants to win now. I see him trade a problem, sign a depth dman(like usual) and finally land his first decent free agent since radulov. The last time we thought he was in win now mode to say we had to reset the next summer.

If Anderson isn't what's advertised we are only slightly better than last year. If we are a wild card team the metro division is super strong. So we are not "most definitely a playoff team" if you aren't top3 in your division you are a bubble team hoping for rookies to be great, no injuries, everything fall into the right spot. So that's why I don't have us penned in for the playoff tree before we see a single game. Nothing this off season says we moved up 8 spots let alone 12.

I say this so we don't get disappointed when it doesn't happen. We can look for how the kids developed like last season, at least.

We moved a number of parts at the trade deadline last year and a 44 point domi (horrible year to many) for a player who had a major injury, only had one year above 30 points and will be 27 this season that we signed for a huge amount of time even though he had 4 points in 26 games most recently. Like many things it's another gamble by MB.

Everyone assumes he will bounce back. But to what? A 30 point winger? 5.5 for a half dozen years and people want to toss Byron who has comparable stats but for a lot less contract. Just pointing out caution with this player. Because if he doesn't regain his form, is he an upgrade over kovalchuk and cousins? Toffoli would be Domi replacement but it hardly makes us an automatic playoff team over last season.

Romanov could be a huge win, long term. But he will need an adjustment period and hopefully we allow him at least half a season to do so.

i can understand your skepticism. But the result of all this doesn’t necessarily equate the GM’s ambitions. I think the moves he made clearly shows the direction he wants to take, which is being competitive while Price, Weber and Petry are still pretty good.

i think what we miss right now, to be able to enter the contender conversation, is elite talent upfront. But maybe Suzuki has that talent. Maybe KK has it too. I think if everything goes well with the 2 young centers, we will be contenders in 2 years.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Just came here to say I fully agree with this year's context piece & million dollar question, above. A whole lot in this hinges on KK's motor, because I do believe he is by far the better centre on the long term. It's how his next 1-2 years of development I'm not exactly sure should be handled, particularly with a 'hungry' Danault this year who has been left in limbo (of all players!!!) by Berge-au-vin maintenant en vacances.

Phil will never ever replicate this. He was 23 years old. And I will remember this all my life I'm pretty sure. Out of control laughter on the night. Whereas in the second clip, the out of control laughter is still there because that's a 6'0+ 18 year old centre on ELC absolutely ripping it from the low-middle slot. Odds are, KK is able to replicate this and make it routine. That's a bomb of an upside on an offensively starved team such as the Habs.

If we saw that Danault more than once a season he would have already been signed. We have already seen kk replicate his shot on several occasions. Suz will be a great 25/40 player while kk is more likely a 35/35 players. Depending on line mates. Those numbers represent ratios. They may not hit 65 or 70 points, but I feel those are the kind of players they are. Suz reminds me of koivu good goal scorer but better vision and passing. Kk is more of a scoring center to me. His passing isn't on Suzuki's level, but his shot is better.

However they are both much better at generating offence and goal scoring over Danault. It poses a problem. He has lots of value and moving him with a year left cheap instead of a deadline acquisition would give us a better return I feel. If we are sitting on the bubble MB does not move him and he walks.

He walks because he can get a 2nd line center job on a few teams at 5.5 to 6.5 million unless his usage goes way down which would hurt his value. I think it's why they want to get a deal. If kk shows up big, they have to move Danault back a bit. If he loses 2 or 3 minutes of ice time, maybe he only hits 40-45 points. That isn't exactly 6.5 million contract power. Losing 5-8 million on the life of a contract is bad, but when you want to play top 6, and you can read the writing on the wall, maybe you ask for a deal with a team that can sign you 2nd linebefore the season starts.

If he plays for the Habs this season he loses money. It's that simple. He either takes less money and accepts 3rd line status, something he says he isn't ready for, or he gets traded. We can't sign him to 6+ million. It doesn't make sense when we know those roles are likely filled in 3 years max. And Danault wants term. He won't sign 3 years at 6 million which I would be fine with. So for his family the right thing is taking a winfall by not being a hab. Unless he somehow can make up the money in deals outside of hockey, Esp for Franco Canadians.

 

[Ozmodiar]

If we saw that Danault more than once a season he would have already been signed.

we won’t see it because NHL teams won’t let a player do that sort of thing.

sometimes, what seems like a great play is really just a horrendous defensive play by the other team. This is a perfect example.

another is when KK beats Matheson up the wing.

 

[themilosh]

Petry 32
Chariot 29
Edmundson 27
Kulak 26
Romanov 20

''young guns'' does not really apply right now

De fence has never really needed to be a "young gun core"/ Offense wins the league, defense makes sure offense has less pressure to score.

 

[BLONG7]

Funny enough for that i respect MB, at least he reacting on that same for all, no pref treatment for a local player

Enough for Drouin, and that's it!! lol

 

[417]

Gally didn't whine after the playoff loss.....big difference.
As for Phil we need to keep him, but only at a reasonable amount of money....they may give him more term, but his cap hit has to be reasonable....this has been MB's message of sorts. There is only so much $$$ to go around.
Stay tuned...

Danault's agent, Meehan says Bergevin has parked negotiations on a new deal for now............as much as MB loves Phil, it would seem speaking out after the flyers series did not serve him well.
Could Tatar stay, and Phil go?

The Habs probably want to reset the market conditions for a new extension for Danault, which will be based on the current and future role Danault will hold moving forward.

Meanwhile I'm sure Danault wants to negotiate now to get paid for what he's done the last few years.

This is the right approach from the Habs...if they can't get him down to a number they want now, wait it out.

There's really no reason to rush from Habs perspective.

 

[SakuKoivu11]

Suzuki is secondary. The problem is kk. We know Julien doesn't really like the kid that much. If he gets placed on 14 minutes a game so Phil can play 19 plus it does us no good for kks development. Esp if Suzuki is even more trusted and eats up even more playtime from kk. If you have Phil getting 19 and suz getting 17, forth will certainly get 11 or so, that leaves 13 for kk.

That is a bad scenario, it's not just about Suzuki. Even if Julien switches Danaults and Suzuki's times making Danault our second line, it still leaves very little opportunities for kk, who may be the better center overall. This is an important year for both kids. Tightrope for ice time and development with problems on both sides. Lots of scenarios from too much ice time for the rooks, a disgruntled Danault, possible injuries, sophomore slump for suz, a lot of moving parts.

Idealy we move Danault for a vet to play 3rd C and we get a pick or prospect. We don't worry about this year and let the kids have growing pains. However that doesn't work for our vet group. Why be a hab if you need to wait a season or 2 for players to mature a bit more. At the same time I doubt we have the right combination at present to go deep. If we resign tatar and or Danault does that handcuff the team? I don't like the mix we have at present and I know MB is like every season going for it because "anything can happen"

This is untrue. Julien did an interview recently saying he’s very impressed with KK in the playoffs and work ethic. Normally players who are sent down crash and lose confidence. KK showed a lot of character for a young kid 20 years old.

Danault is still Juliens face off guy and defensive guy. He’s also Bergevin’s second son. It was Bergevin who scouted and developed Danault. Traded for Danault. Trust me Danault will resign $5.5 mil for 6 years. Julien likes to role his 3 lines and 1 checking line. When he was with Boston it was Bergeron/Krejci/Beverly/Kelly or Campbell.
Kelly and Campbell were those two faceoffs guys on the shutdown fourth line. While I don’t think Jake Evans is there yet Bergevin might upgrade. Lehkonen and Armia are excellent fourth liners and some say they are third liners in any other teams.

 

[tazsub3]

Enough for Drouin, and that's it!! lol

hahah, yes though drouin kept his mouth shut, and towed the company line. He sucked on the ice often, but always talked the right talk.

 

[HabsQC]

Danault will think he's worth more than Drouin and Anderson and rightfully so

 

[Sorinth]

Suzuki is secondary. The problem is kk. We know Julien doesn't really like the kid that much. If he gets placed on 14 minutes a game so Phil can play 19 plus it does us no good for kks development. Esp if Suzuki is even more trusted and eats up even more playtime from kk. If you have Phil getting 19 and suz getting 17, forth will certainly get 11 or so, that leaves 13 for kk.

That is a bad scenario, it's not just about Suzuki. Even if Julien switches Danaults and Suzuki's times making Danault our second line, it still leaves very little opportunities for kk, who may be the better center overall. This is an important year for both kids. Tightrope for ice time and development with problems on both sides. Lots of scenarios from too much ice time for the rooks, a disgruntled Danault, possible injuries, sophomore slump for suz, a lot of moving parts.

Idealy we move Danault for a vet to play 3rd C and we get a pick or prospect. We don't worry about this year and let the kids have growing pains. However that doesn't work for our vet group. Why be a hab if you need to wait a season or 2 for players to mature a bit more. At the same time I doubt we have the right combination at present to go deep. If we resign tatar and or Danault does that handcuff the team? I don't like the mix we have at present and I know MB is like every season going for it because "anything can happen"

Assuming Suzuki can handle the #1 all situation role, the ideal situation is probably to roll all 3 centers evenly at ES, and give KK and Suzuki PP time, and Danault and Suzuki PK time. Suzuki ends up with the most icetime and KK/Danault are more or less even depending on special teams.

But for whatever reason Julien just doesn't seem to trust KK, even in the playoffs he was behind by a lot in icetime despite being one of our top players.

 

[McGees]

6 x 4 mil/per fair for all.
do it.

 

[BLONG7]

Danault will think he's worth more than Drouin and Anderson and rightfully so

That's on MB...............let's see where this goes. JD is overpaid for sure...and did nothing to even get that pay...................Anderson remains to be seen, buying years of his ufa has cost $$$ but in retrospect, he could end up being a big time bargain if he can keep scoring 25-30 per season.
I would think the Habs are looking at PD with a max of 4.5M with some term.

 

[Kriss E]

Danault's agent, Meehan says Bergevin has parked negotiations on a new deal for now............as much as MB loves Phil, it would seem speaking out after the flyers series did not serve him well.
Could Tatar stay, and Phil go?

Not sure if it has anything to do with the Flyers series really. Maybe Bergevin learned from his Desharnais days to not extend centers so quickly when your pipeline is giving you other solutions.
Danault obviously wants to keep having an offensive center role, but with Suzuki and KK slowly emerging, it might not make as much sense to play him on top 2 lines. So if Danauly is asking for ~5Mx6y...to play the third line...makes more sense to see how guys like Poeh and Evans can perform this year. They could be good options to center the 3rd line on a much cheaper deal.

It just makes sense to wait more before extending Phil.