OT: Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): Offseason edition

[Rebels57]

Elaborate.

Hating the Astros more than the Yankees, who beat us in the World Series in 09 and have been shoved down baseball fans throats since forever, over a single homerun, just doesn't make sense!

 

[montreal]

They don't have an ace in the system. Nola is the best they got. Maybe this years first rounder.

It's the biggest concern/weakness with the system by far, then 2B prospects. Kilome we'll should start to get a better idea of him assuming he's in Lakewood next year. But after him there's not much else. Adonis Medina got some hype after a good year in the GCL so we'll see how he does with the Crosscutters. Another GCL guy that gets some buzz is Sam McWilliams.

I'm really interested to see how it works out moving Alberto Tirado and Alexis Rivero from the pen to SP. They did that with Aumont, that didn't work out so they put him back in the pen, that didn't help, so they put him back at SP and that didn't really work either. Not comparing them as Aumont's control problems were always going to be a problem and there was the talk that he wasn't coachable. I don't know much about Tirado other then he throws major heat but Rivero got some good buzz this year so looking forward to seeing what he can do.

It's too bad with Biddle's struggles and now out for a year or so, Shane Watson's injuries have set him back, Mitch Gueller and Matt Imhof as other high picks haven't impressed.

 

[Halladay]

Hating the Astros more than the Yankees, who beat us in the World Series in 09 and have been shoved down baseball fans throats since forever, over a single homerun, just doesn't make sense!

Who cares if they won in 2009, they were the better team. The Astros were a pain in the ass back in the day. The Phillies were 0-12 against them in 2004 and 2005. It wasnt until Labor Day 2006 on the infamous "Chase Utley, you are the man" call when the Phillies finally beat them.

 

[TheSpectrum]

Salsbury brought up an interesting point. Sell high on Giles. The argument is that a valuable closer is a commodity on a losing team. Plus they have brought in some guys into the system with electric 'closer' stuff (ie. Jimmy Cordero).

When you see what the Braves hauled in for Kimbrel last offseason it may be an idea worth exploring to fill other organizational holes.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Salsbury brought up an interesting point. Sell high on Giles. The argument is that a valuable closer is a commodity on a losing team. Plus they have brought in some guys into the system with electric 'closer' stuff (ie. Jimmy Cordero).

When you see what the Braves hauled in for Kimbrel last offseason it may be an idea worth exploring to fill other organizational holes.

I'm cool with it.

 

[Hiesenberg]

I love Giles, but having a great closer like you said is for winners. He's gonna have 40 saves on a 72 win season?

Its a waste. Move him for some blue chippers

 

[Halladay]

Salsbury brought up an interesting point. Sell high on Giles. The argument is that a valuable closer is a commodity on a losing team. Plus they have brought in some guys into the system with electric 'closer' stuff (ie. Jimmy Cordero).

When you see what the Braves hauled in for Kimbrel last offseason it may be an idea worth exploring to fill other organizational holes.

I was posting this at the deadline. He would have been a valuable commodity for a playoff team. Im all for it.

 

[Phileeguy]

I see the logic in both trading him and keeping him. He's a luxury now, so if you can get a good deal, go for it. Especially since relievers' effectiveness can vary from year to year.

But he's also cheap and isn't arbitration eligible 'til 2018 and isn't a FA 'til 2021. There seems to be a bit more optimism on how fast a turnaround can happen, so hopefully it isn't as long as we originally thought and maybe they can finally use him in meaningful games. Admittedly, when the Phils will be in contention is still a big question mark.

An off-season trade of Giles wouldn't be unheard of, but one would think the best deal would be had at next year's deadline where a contender is looking for back-end stability. And if he's still dealing come the end of July next year... well I'm glad I don't have to make that call. But I'd probably lean towards trading him.

 

[Protest]

Who cares if they won in 2009, they were the better team. The Astros were a pain in the ass back in the day. The Phillies were 0-12 against them in 2004 and 2005. It wasnt until Labor Day 2006 on the infamous "Chase Utley, you are the man" call when the Phillies finally beat them.

WS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular season

They were not the better team. The week off really hurt the Phils, and Hamels was drained from going over 200 innings for the first time the year before.

 

[Halladay]

WS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular season

They were not the better team. The week off really hurt the Phils, and Hamels was drained from going over 200 innings for the first time the year before.

They won 103 games, the Phillies won 93. They had a better Pythagorean W-L too. Hamels and Lidge are the reasons they lost, and it wasnt really surprising as they both were bad that year.

They had no business losing to the teams the next two years though. Game 2 in 2011 is still sickening.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Justin De Fratus outrighted from the 40-man roster.

 

[Cody Webster]

Who cares if they won in 2009, they were the better team. The Astros were a pain in the ass back in the day. The Phillies were 0-12 against them in 2004 and 2005. It wasnt until Labor Day 2006 on the infamous "Chase Utley, you are the man" call when the Phillies finally beat them.

So you hate the Astros because they beat us back in 2004 and 2005, but dont have a problem that the Yankess beat us in 2009, ok.....

 

[Halladay]

So you hate the Astros because they beat us back in 2004 and 2005, but dont have a problem that the Yankess beat us in 2009, ok.....

They were an NL team. The Yankees arent/ never will be. I hold no ill will towards the Blackhawks.

I dont hate the Atros either. That word is only reserved for the Cowboys and Manchester United.

 

[zarley zelepukin]

It's the biggest concern/weakness with the system by far, then 2B prospects. Kilome we'll should start to get a better idea of him assuming he's in Lakewood next year. But after him there's not much else. Adonis Medina got some hype after a good year in the GCL so we'll see how he does with the Crosscutters. Another GCL guy that gets some buzz is Sam McWilliams.

I'm really interested to see how it works out moving Alberto Tirado and Alexis Rivero from the pen to SP. They did that with Aumont, that didn't work out so they put him back in the pen, that didn't help, so they put him back at SP and that didn't really work either. Not comparing them as Aumont's control problems were always going to be a problem and there was the talk that he wasn't coachable. I don't know much about Tirado other then he throws major heat but Rivero got some good buzz this year so looking forward to seeing what he can do.

It's too bad with Biddle's struggles and now out for a year or so, Shane Watson's injuries have set him back, Mitch Gueller and Matt Imhof as other high picks haven't impressed.

Did you mean 3B? With Franco graduated (luckily we don't have to worry about it too much for now) we have an absolute black hole at 3B until you get to the GCL. 2B is pretty deep right now with Kingery, Valentin, Tobias and even Canelo if he's blocked at SS.

McWilliams is interesting. He probably doesn't have ace upside but he reminds me a little of Kilome a year ago.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

So you hate the Astros because they beat us back in 2004 and 2005, but dont have a problem that the Yankess beat us in 2009, ok.....

Yeah I don't get it. That was back at the beginning of the run for the Phillies, so plenty of teams dominated them around that same time. It was only a couple years before that they had their first winning season in so long. Not saying you aren't allowed to hate them more than the Yankees...I just don't understand your logic behind it.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

I think everyone should hate the Yankees out of principle.

 

[Hiesenberg]

I'm more mad at the Astros for fleecing Amaro.

 

[sobrien]

Both teams I wanted to win the WC won, so with all my sports luck blown, the Cards will probably win it all

 

[montreal]

Did you mean 3B? With Franco graduated (luckily we don't have to worry about it too much for now) we have an absolute black hole at 3B until you get to the GCL. 2B is pretty deep right now with Kingery, Valentin, Tobias and even Canelo if he's blocked at SS.

McWilliams is interesting. He probably doesn't have ace upside but he reminds me a little of Kilome a year ago.

I was still thinking of Franco as a prospect, in terms of I don't think we'll be needing a 3B prospect for a good while. One guy I really liked in the system was Zach Green but now we'll have to see how he does after missing the year. Heard good things about Luke Williams but he's so far away. If you take out Franco then yea it's a big issue.

I don't really like the 2B's yet other then Canelo who really impressed me in Lakewood. Valentin I haven't seen yet and don't know much about. Tobias I liked in the NCAA and heard good things about him with the Crosscutters but sounds like he needs some work in the field. He was at 3B in college but guess the phils thought it was better for him to move. Kingery was drafted high so he's the one I am most interested in but I wasn't too impressed in the little I saw of him at Lakewood (his teammate Kyle Martin looked really good)

 

[FLYguy3911]

I think Kingery hit the wall after signing. That's a long season for a kid just drafted jumping right in to full-season ball. Kyle Martin hit the wall a few weeks later. We'll know this year if Kingery is a player or not. I assume he starts in Clearwater. Remember Cody Asche hit below the Mendoza line in the NY-Penn league and then proceeded to fly through the minors.

 

[montreal]

I think Kingery hit the wall after signing. That's a long season for a kid just drafted jumping right in to full-season ball. Kyle Martin hit the wall a few weeks later. We'll know this year if Kingery is a player or not. I assume he starts in Clearwater. Remember Cody Asche hit below the Mendoza line in the NY-Penn league and then proceeded to fly through the minors.

I know some scouts really liked Kingery so that's why I'm very interested to see what he does. When I watched him in a few games on Milb.tv he looked smallish but hopefully he has a big year. I do remember when Asche struggled with the Crosscutters and I know that baseball prospects are such a wild card, just look at Asche a guy that went on a tear in the minors and now you wonder if he even has a future in philly.

 

[YEM]

I think everyone should hate the Yankees out of principle.

I don't get this at all
because they spend [and make] a lot of money?
you guys rooted against the yanks when they played the braves and mets in the world series(s) in the late 90's?

 

[FLYguy3911]

I know some scouts really liked Kingery so that's why I'm very interested to see what he does. When I watched him in a few games on Milb.tv he looked smallish but hopefully he has a big year. I do remember when Asche struggled with the Crosscutters and I know that baseball prospects are such a wild card, just look at Asche a guy that went on a tear in the minors and now you wonder if he even has a future in philly.

I recall one of the Baseball America guys saying his bat speed was way down, which would hint at fatigue. Hopefully he has a big year this year.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

I don't get this at all
because they spend [and make] a lot of money?
you guys rooted against the yanks when they played the braves and mets in the world series(s) in the late 90's?

Is it possible that I didn't root for anyone during that? I can't hate more than one team? How many Yankees fans do you know that act like their **** doesn't stink, and then this ridiculous farewell tour that Jeter went on? I have my reasons. Also, 2009. I don't care if my team is outclassed and worse than the other team, I will always hate a team that beats my team in the championship

 

[deadhead]

Players handle the first year transition from college to pros differently, Kingery struggled, Martin started hot then fell off, Hoskins started slow then tore it up in August '14 and hasn't stopped hitting since. It's the year after they're drafted that's the key for college players.

I don't take the "#1" starter seriously, we had three in 2011, how did that work in the playoffs? Build a deep pitching staff, with a deep bullpen and all you need are #2 and #3s who can give you six solid innings, then bring in the heat. And a batting order that can build a lead. How many pitchers sustain excellence for more than a few seasons? Most tend to be up and down, great one season, decent the next.

3B is an organizational black hole, depends if Franco has the range to stay, or will have to be moved down the road. Asche is a fail, Harold Martinez is a long shot, then there's nothing until Williams in the GCL.

This team should be close to .500 in 2017 and a contender in 2018. 2016 will be the "shakeout cruise," with a lot of players in AAA and AA who will either step up or get shipped out. By 2017 they'll have a much better idea where they need to patch things (Williams in LF? Altherr in RF? Quinn? Cozens? Knapp at C/1B, Alfaro anywhere? Crawford at SS).