OT: Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): Christmas In July: Cole For Everyone!

[Hiesenberg]

I didn't mean literally all of them, and why would it be hard to acquire prospects in the minors?

I'd prefer not to get that package back.

I dunno.

 

[sobrien]

Would be hard:

Cossart - on Miami
Singleton - Back in Minors
Zeid - In minors (kind of sucks)
Santana - Back in Minors

Regarding these two, prepare to be depressed:

Don’t sleep on Jon Singleton, either. The 23-year-old first baseman has already endured a 50-game suspension for marijuana use and a debut season in 2014 that included a stupefying 134 strikeouts in 310 at-bats and a .168 batting average. But after being sent down to the minors to start the season, he’s doing the little things right this year at Triple-A Fresno, walking more and making more contact. Meanwhile, the big things have been incredible. Singleton won Triple-A Player of the Week honors last week by submitting the following line: a .357 batting average, five homers, 23 RBIs, and two stolen bases. Again, that’s in one week, a glorious week that featured a 10-RBI game and three grand slams in a span of five days.

-Grantland article

And I saw Santana in person last year against my AAA team, he was batting cleanup with good numbers. Pretty damn good for someone who was a Single-A throw-in player

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Regarding these two, prepare to be depressed:


-Grantland article

And I saw Santana in person last year against my AAA team, he was batting cleanup with good numbers. Pretty damn good for someone who was a Single-A throw-in player

Good old Santana. Forgot all about that debacle. Another reason Ruben should have been fired a long time ago.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

Regarding these two, prepare to be depressed:


-Grantland article

And I saw Santana in person last year against my AAA team, he was batting cleanup with good numbers. Pretty damn good for someone who was a Single-A throw-in player

I change my mind. Give em back.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I still can't believe he was the PTBNL.

 

[Hiesenberg]

Regarding these two, prepare to be depressed:


-Grantland article

And I saw Santana in person last year against my AAA team, he was batting cleanup with good numbers. Pretty damn good for someone who was a Single-A throw-in player

Oh. I know. lol. I saw and was like damn it Rube

 

[FLYguy3911]

The Pence trade was so bad. Not so much what they have up, but they turned around a year later and sold him for pennies on the dollar.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

The Pence trade was so bad. Not so much what they have up, but they turned around a year later and sold him for pennies on the dollar.

That's the worst part. I wouldn't hate the trade as much if the Phillies
A) still had Hunter Pence
B) got anything resembling a solid prospect in return.

I don't think it's farfetched to say that we can lump these two trades together and call it one of the worst trades in Philly history, possibly sports history. And that's without the gift of hindsight yet. I'm sure when Singleton and Santana are raking and Cosart becomes a solid pitcher it'll look that much worse.

It could easily be Colon for Lee, Phillips and Sizemore territory.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

That's the worst part. I wouldn't hate the trade as much if the Phillies
A) still had Hunter Pence
B) got anything resembling a solid prospect in return.

I don't think it's farfetched to say that we can lump these two trades together and call it one of the worst trades in Philly history, possibly sports history. And that's without the gift of hindsight yet. I'm sure when Singleton and Santana are raking and Cosart becomes a solid pitcher it'll look that much worse.

It could easily be Colon for Lee, Phillips and Sizemore territory.

Wasn't Tommy Joseph a legit prospect before he got hurt? Maybe I am remembering it wrong, but IIRC he was similar to Blake Swihart in terms of being on the fast-track to being an everyday MLB catcher but then suffered a (series of?) concussion(s). You can't fault them on that because the lynchpin of the deal had his career effectively derailed.

If I'm wrong about that nevermind, but IIRC the trade wasn't that bad when it happened, it just looks a lot worse that Joseph appears to be a dud.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

Wasn't Tommy Joseph a legit prospect before he got hurt? Maybe I am remembering it wrong, but IIRC he was similar to Blake Swihart in terms of being on the fast-track to being an everyday MLB catcher but then suffered a (series of?) concussion(s). You can't fault them on that because the lynchpin of the deal had his career effectively derailed.

If I'm wrong about that nevermind, but IIRC the trade wasn't that bad when it happened, it just looks a lot worse that Joseph appears to be a dud.

He was a promising prospect but IIRC he wasn't close to what Swihart is currently.

Edit: Joseph was a nice player, but considering Hunter Pence didn't degrade massively, the package they gave up to acquire him dwarfed the package to get him. That's 3 of the Phillies top 5 prospects at the time IIRC, and I don't think the Phillies got any of the Giants top 5.

 

[zarley zelepukin]

I think the package the Phillies got for Pence was closer to his value than the one they gave up for him. Joseph wasn't quite seen as a Swihart level prospect, but he was the Giants' #1 or 2 prospect at the time. A 20 year old catcher in AA, hitting at a league average rate with above average to plus power and a plus arm is pretty good. Concussions suck.

Santana is still a very boom or bust guy because of the strikeouts. Singleton is sort of the same, but it looks like he's cut down on his K's.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Crazy that tomorrow it's been five years since Halladay's perfect game.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Crazy that tomorrow it's been five years since Halladay's perfect game.

Game 1 of the SCF too.

My concern with Joseph before the injuries was his K:BB ratio. Put a lot of pressure on his power and defense. Now it doesn't look like we have much.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Game 1 of the SCF too.

My concern with Joseph before the injuries was his K:BB ratio. Put a lot of pressure on his power and defense. Now it doesn't look like we have much.

I had that written too before posting but took it out, haha.

 

[Broad Street Elite]

I change my mind. Give em back.

Honestly, I am beginning to doubt whether we'll have a ton of regrets about the players in the Pence deal. All of them are extremely flawed.

I've watched Singleton and Santana a fair bit with Fresno. Both are extremely flawed players whose stats look a heck of a lot more dominating because they are in the PCL. Neither player is likely to be anything exceptional... certainly not All Stars or core players.

As for Hamels, the obvious goal is to get at least one player who at their current stage represents a potential difference maker. I don't want 4-5 mediocre prospects. I'd be more than happy with 1 A- prospect and a solid B prospect.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

Honestly, I am beginning to doubt whether we'll have a ton of regrets about the players in the Pence deal. All of them are extremely flawed.

I've watched Singleton and Santana a fair bit with Fresno. Both are extremely flawed players whose stats look a heck of a lot more dominating because they are in the PCL. Neither player is likely to be anything exceptional... certainly not All Stars or core players.

As for Hamels, the obvious goal is to get at least one player who at their current stage represents a potential difference maker. I don't want 4-5 mediocre prospects. I'd be more than happy with 1 A- prospect and a solid B prospect.

You're probably right, but I'd still prefer to figure out they're flawed under our control vs. watching them in Houston.

I am still pretty excited about Crawford and Nola. Things I've read here from montreal, ZZ and FLYguy have me excited about a few other guys too like Roman Quinn.

All your updates are appreciated, keep em coming!

 

[Tankadelphia]

The entire AA rotation seems to be something to be excited about. Nola is obviously good. Eflin has been REALLY good, had a 1.something era until he got hammered last game. Lively is extremely deceptive, could be a good #2 or 3. And Biddle/Windle have a good chance of being mid rotation guys

 

[Hiesenberg]

Asche called up.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The entire AA rotation seems to be something to be excited about. Nola is obviously good. Eflin has been REALLY good, had a 1.something era until he got hammered last game. Lively is extremely deceptive, could be a good #2 or 3. And Biddle/Windle have a good chance of being mid rotation guys

I remember they had what they called the "baby aces" down there years ago. I believe Jared Cosart's really the only one of them that has made something out of himself at this point.

 

[Hiesenberg]

I remember they had what they called the "baby aces" down there years ago. I believe Jared Cosart's really the only one of them that has made something out of himself at this point.

I don't remember if Adam Morgan was involved in that. But if he was, injuries is what derailed him.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I don't remember if Adam Morgan was involved in that. But if he was, injuries is what derailed him.

I can't remember all the names but Jared Cosart & Trevor May were the headliners. I believe May broke the in season strikeout record for the organization the one year there.

 

[montreal]

I would rather the Phillies spend money in the international free agent pool and go over slot for draft picks more often, but that will never happen with the current ownership.

yea it's too bad they don't spend money in the international FA pool like the cubs, NYY, etc... have done. To me that's what they should have been doing, I mean it's nice that they finally started spending some money on a few of these kids like Tocci (750K), Deivi Grullon (550ish K), Encarnacion (1M), Jose Pujols (550ish K), etc... and the rumor that they are willing to drop 4.3M in July on one player but they have never gone over slot as you say and that's something I hope to see change. We need Middleton to take over as full owner.

The Pence trade was so bad. Not so much what they have up, but they turned around a year later and sold him for pennies on the dollar.

yea, it's too bad about Tommy Joseph as it really hurts now that his future is in doubt and the phils don't have much in the way of catching prospects now. I just saw Grullon live the other week, he looks the part if the offense can translate, Lino that they got from the O's for Thome is having a nice bounce back year, doing well in AA so far. Knapp I know they really like his bat but haven't heard much about his defense, Astudillo is a hitting machine but not sure if he can stick at catcher, Logan Moore is more like Rupp, a defensive backup at best.

Seth Rosin has been ok in AAA this year, if he keeps it up we might see him with the phils in Sept to get a look. But that's why trading good players for prospects in baseball is so hit and miss, as you look at what he phils gave up during the good years and none of the prospects they traded have done much so far.

Honestly, I am beginning to doubt whether we'll have a ton of regrets about the players in the Pence deal. All of them are extremely flawed.

I've watched Singleton and Santana a fair bit with Fresno. Both are extremely flawed players whose stats look a heck of a lot more dominating because they are in the PCL. Neither player is likely to be anything exceptional... certainly not All Stars or core players.

I wasn't upset with losing Santana (rumblings about his true age and high SO's) but I was so pissed off that they gave up Singleton. Guess we'll see how it turns out, I could see Singleton doing some good things but with prospects it's always so hard to project.

The entire AA rotation seems to be something to be excited about. Nola is obviously good. Eflin has been REALLY good, had a 1.something era until he got hammered last game. Lively is extremely deceptive, could be a good #2 or 3. And Biddle/Windle have a good chance of being mid rotation guys

I hear Windle is more likely to be in the pen, but people have been saying that about Biddle and I can't say I agree there. Lively I've also heard some talk that he might be better off in the pen, but doing well in AA is certainly good to see.

For now the phils better hope that someone breaks out like Franklyn Kilome, Ricardo Pinto, Yoel Mecias, Brandon Leibrandt etc... on top of Nola and Fflin.

Asche called up.

wonder who goes down? Araujo, Gomez, Blanco? One of the OF's? I know I red the Revere trade rumor is said to be dead since they ended up getting an OF from the Mets for cash.

 

[montreal]

I don't remember if Adam Morgan was involved in that. But if he was, injuries is what derailed him.

no Morgan was a 3rd round pick the same draft as Asche, 2011. The "baby aces" were Cosart, May, Pettibone, J Rod and Brody Colvin

 

[Hiesenberg]

I can't remember all the names but Jared Cosart & Trevor May were the headliners. I believe May broke the in season strikeout record for the organization the one year there.

Yea, May was on it that year.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Brody Colvin. Almost forgot about him. Kid fell apart.

Sizemore DFA'd.