OT: Philadelphia Eagles: Now, Here's A Team Who Just Won The Super Bowl!

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kelmitchell

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Jun 11, 2013
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Nonsense.

The National Anthem playing before a game is such a fluky American thing that no one else does; I don't see how this question holds water when comparing to a normal job. In fact, by giving players the option to remain in the locker room, the NFL is implying that being present for the anthem is not a strict work obligation at all--enough to give them the option of skipping it, anyway. It's not like they are ignoring typing emails or filing recipes or whatever minutiae in order to protest. They are simply making a point during a non-obligatory pregame ceremony that is completely pointless.

This whole episode could have been avoided if 1) the league would grow a set and stand by its players and 2) these offended American patriots would take a second to educate themselves, try to understand the world from the point of view of people who are murdered and brutalized by police, and consider that maybe all isn't Holy and Good in this cluster**** of a country.
Im not arguing the fact that there are things that are terrible about this country and should be addressed, but my biggest questions are
1. Why kneel for the anthem, and the flag (dont say for injustice, i know the cause)
2. Why not use the media and or social media as a platform?


Not looking to start a political war, just 2 simple questions i have
 

LegionOfDoom91

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Jan 25, 2013
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I’d have to imagine the NCAA has been happy as hell these past few years that they’ve always kept the teams in the locker room during it & not really made a big production of it.
 

Lotusflower

Tha Snake, Tha Rat, Tha Cat, Tha Dog
Dec 23, 2013
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Nonsense.

The National Anthem playing before a game is such a fluky American thing that no one else does; I don't see how this question holds water when comparing to a normal job. In fact, by giving players the option to remain in the locker room, the NFL is implying that being present for the anthem is not a strict work obligation at all--enough to give them the option of skipping it, anyway. It's not like they are ignoring typing emails or filing recipes or whatever minutiae in order to protest. They are simply making a point during a non-obligatory pregame ceremony that is completely pointless.

This whole episode could have been avoided if 1) the league would grow a set and stand by its players and 2) these offended American patriots would take a second to educate themselves, try to understand the world from the point of view of people who are murdered and brutalized by police, and consider that maybe all isn't Holy and Good in this cluster**** of a country.
This.
giphy.gif
 

BringBackHakstol

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Oct 25, 2005
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Im not arguing the fact that there are things that are terrible about this country and should be addressed, but my biggest questions are
1. Why kneel for the anthem, and the flag (dont say for injustice, i know the cause)
2. Why not use the media and or social media as a platform?


Not looking to start a political war, just 2 simple questions i have

The anthem BS is purely propaganda

This mandatory by implication rituals of nationalism should have never entered into pro sports.
 

Jray42

Registered User
May 10, 2009
9,194
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Philadelphia
Yep, so much for free speech and the right to protest.
The first amendment means the government itself cannot censor free speech.

NFL players aint exactly insurance claim adjusters. Supply dictates demand.
Very limited supply of NFL players compared to the type of regular corporate/business sector type gigs to which youre referring.

Its just business.
Owners caved to the players with the fund for charities they promised and now they cater to the rednecks by imposing the no-kneel rule.

Trying to keep both sides placated so they can get back to earning.
When does supply ever dictate demand? If there is a lower supply of a product and a higher level of demand, the price goes up (in this scenario). Overall demand isn't a function nor is it going to increase because of the overall level of supply... Am I wrong here? I do agree there isn't a ton of supply of NFL caliber athletes, but at the same time, there currently aren't any competent rivals to the NFL for football in the USA either. It's a give and take.

The NFL is obviously nothing without it's athletes, and these athletes could hypothetically decide to leave the NFL and create a different, competing league. But I don't envision this happening in the near future.

Nonsense.

The National Anthem playing before a game is such a fluky American thing that no one else does; I don't see how this question holds water when comparing to a normal job. In fact, by giving players the option to remain in the locker room, the NFL is implying that being present for the anthem is not a strict work obligation at all--enough to give them the option of skipping it, anyway. It's not like they are ignoring typing emails or filing recipes or whatever minutiae in order to protest. They are simply making a point during a non-obligatory pregame ceremony that is completely pointless.

This whole episode could have been avoided if 1) the league would grow a set and stand by its players and 2) these offended American patriots would take a second to educate themselves, try to understand the world from the point of view of people who are murdered and brutalized by police, and consider that maybe all isn't Holy and Good in this cluster**** of a country.

I don’t understand the point behind the first paragraph, so I apologize if I’m off base with what I have gathered. The employer in this case (The NFL) has decided it’s better for their bottom line if the players protesting on the field are not visible, and are doing what they can to protect their bottom line. Not saying that’s the correct or moral thing or that I even agree with it, but it is what it is. The players can call for change and utilize their first amendment rights outside of their time at “work”. Whether the job is a gardening, retail, or NFL job is irrelevant.

Being present for the anthem isn’t the strict work obligation… strictly not kneeling for the anthem is the obligation. No obligation to be present on the field during the anthem, but an obligation to not openly kneel or “disrespect” said anthem (in quotes because I don’t agree with that point of view).

Now, do I agree with what the NFL did? No, not really. The players aren’t trying to disrespect the anthem, and are trying to make it a positive thing to shed light and change an issue that is very important.

I personally would never in a million years kneel or sit for the anthem, but I would defend the right of others to do so (in an open setting).

The anthem BS is purely propaganda

This mandatory by implication rituals of nationalism should have never entered into pro sports.
A part of me agrees with this. I consider myself patriotic, but not sure how necessary it is to play the anthem before every single sporting event. On certain special occasions or international matches, sure.
 
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Frickley

why am i watching this
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I don’t understand the point behind the first paragraph, so I apologize if I’m off base with what I have gathered. The employer in this case (The NFL) has decided it’s better for their bottom line if the players protesting on the field are not visible, and are doing what they can to protect their bottom line. Not saying that’s the correct or moral thing or that I even agree with it, but it is what it is. The players can call for change and utilize their first amendment rights outside of their time at “work”. Whether the job is a gardening, retail, or NFL job is irrelevant.

Being present for the anthem isn’t the strict work obligation… strictly not kneeling for the anthem is the obligation. No obligation to be present on the field during the anthem, but an obligation to not openly kneel or “disrespect” said anthem (in quotes because I don’t agree with that point of view).

Now, do I agree with what the NFL did? No, not really. The players aren’t trying to disrespect the anthem, and are trying to make it a positive thing to shed light and change an issue that is very important.

You make a valid point, and I figured this would get picked on when i typed it (I promise this isn't narcissistic revisionist history :D). From a company policy standpoint you certainly are correct.

My point was in response to another poster comparing this situation to protesting on company time at any job, which I find utterly baseless due to the unique nature of an NFL pregame as compared to a typical company. There is no time wasting, there is no preventing things from getting done. This is a set aside time where people stand around for a minute and listen to a ceremony, with no business being done (unless you buy the DoD "paid patriotism" narrative.)

Now, as you have pointed out, the league values this one minute of standing around very much, to the point where they have done a fine job of skirting the moral implications of the protests by making it a company policy issue rather than a moral one. Or more precisely, an issue of "respect" rather than of "presence."

This issue is full of grey areas and making it black and white by treating all workplaces as the same is reckless and shortsighted IMO.
 

Frickley

why am i watching this
Apr 29, 2017
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Im not arguing the fact that there are things that are terrible about this country and should be addressed, but my biggest questions are
1. Why kneel for the anthem, and the flag (dont say for injustice, i know the cause)
2. Why not use the media and or social media as a platform?


Not looking to start a political war, just 2 simple questions i have
I'll give you my best guesses, but I don't have the answers I can assure of that.

1. It is super public and will get reactions. Simple as that. And if you feel that you can't live in your country safely and are discriminated against due to your skin color, I don't blame you for not showing reverence to the anthem and flag of said county.

2. They did use are using social media, a lot.
 

Flyotes

Sorry Hinkie.
Apr 7, 2007
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You don’t have free speech nor the right to protest while you’re an employee of a company.

Would you be able to keep your job if you protested on company time?

Yes, you do. It may get you fired, but you have it. And if they fire you, you can go to court over it and let them decide. And I've been in a company where the workers protested. One time over benefits. Another time because they were slow firing a boss who was harassing people. No harm came to anyone.

At my current employment my boss encourages us to go protest if things get bad politically. We also have about 5 internal mechanisms to fight discrimination.

It depends on WHERE you work, which is exactly the point. The NFL management is being lousy.
 

YEM

Registered User
Mar 7, 2010
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This mandatory by implication rituals of nationalism should have never entered into pro sports.
yep
the NFL brought this on themselves when they started taking millions of taxpayer dollars in order to have these silly overblown pregame supercharged "patriotic" ceremonies. They lost some autonomy in agreeing to be propaganda partners w/ the US govt and now it's come full circle
 
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DrinkFightFlyers

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Im not arguing the fact that there are things that are terrible about this country and should be addressed, but my biggest questions are
1. Why kneel for the anthem, and the flag (dont say for injustice, i know the cause)
2. Why not use the media and or social media as a platform?


Not looking to start a political war, just 2 simple questions i have
This is a pretty simple line of questioning to answer. The point of a protest is to bring about change, starting by bringing attention to the cause. Tweeting something is not a protest. It will be forgotten as soon as the next tweet comes out.

The more important question is why people are so upset about the act of kneeling during the National Anthem? Every servicemember (active and retired) that I've apoken to doesn't have a problem with it, and many recognize that this is exactly what they fought for/are fighting for. It seems the majority of people upset about this, at least the people I know, are not in the military but are mad because it is disrespectful to the military (even though neither the Anthem nor the protests involve the military).

I will say cops I know HATE it. Haha.
 
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DrinkFightFlyers

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Another issue that is going to pop up is the enforceability of this. This is not in the CBA so I imagine the union will not just go along with it.
 

BrindamoursNose

Registered User
Oct 14, 2008
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Im not arguing the fact that there are things that are terrible about this country and should be addressed, but my biggest questions are
1. Why kneel for the anthem, and the flag (dont say for injustice, i know the cause)
2. Why not use the media and or social media as a platform?



Not looking to start a political war, just 2 simple questions i have

1) If you already know the answer (that players have said countless times), then why ask? Do you just not like the answer?
2) They don't ask you to stand and put your hand over your heart on Twitter or on traditional news.

Many people (famous, non-famous) spread this message of police brutality on those media as well. However, athletes (like Kaep) are asked to stand and pay respect to the nation through the flag - if you feel strongly enough about our nation being in bad shape, that's as good of a time as any to not openly act like everything is all good.

View attachment 122973
The more important question is why people are so upset about the act of kneeling during the National Anthem? Every servicemember (active and retired) that I've apoken to doesn't have a problem with it, and many recognize that this is exactly what they fought for/are fighting for. It seems the majority of people upset about this, at least the people I know, are not in the military but are mad because it is disrespectful to the military (even though neither the Anthem nor the protests involve the military).

I will say cops I know HATE it. Haha.

As they should, since of course the protest mainly surrounds police brutality.
 

kelmitchell

Registered User
Jun 11, 2013
6,603
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Newark Delaware
1) If you already know the answer (that players have said countless times), then why ask? Do you just not like the answer?
2) They don't ask you to stand and put your hand over your heart on Twitter or on traditional news.

Many people (famous, non-famous) spread this message of police brutality on those media as well. However, athletes (like Kaep) are asked to stand and pay respect to the nation through the flag - if you feel strongly enough about our nation being in bad shape, that's as good of a time as any to not openly act like everything is all good.



As they should, since of course the protest mainly surrounds police brutality.
Well clearly you dont get exactly what i was asking
 

flyershockey

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Oct 10, 2006
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Another issue that is going to pop up is the enforceability of this. This is not in the CBA so I imagine the union will not just go along with it.
I'm honestly shocked the union hasn't already gone ape shit over this. Me thinks a concession was made behind closed doors for them to be so quiet on the subject. We're only 3 seasons away from a new CBA, and the posturing is already well underway.
 

BrindamoursNose

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Oct 14, 2008
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I'm honestly shocked the union hasn't already gone ape **** over this. Me thinks a concession was made behind closed doors for them to be so quiet on the subject. We're only 3 seasons away from a new CBA, and the posturing is already well underway.

They're looking into it still. As soon as it was announced, they sent a letter to the NFL saying they're going to investigate for grievances.
 

flyershockey

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Oct 10, 2006
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They're looking into it still. As soon as it was announced, they sent a letter to the NFL saying they're going to investigate for grievances.
How hard do you have to look? It's not an overly complex issue.

Demaurice Smith is a pretty vocal guy, and I haven't seen one public comment from him (not saying it doesn't exist, I just haven't seen one).
 

BrindamoursNose

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Oct 14, 2008
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How hard do you have to look? It's not an overly complex issue.

Demaurice Smith is a pretty vocal guy, and I haven't seen one public comment from him (not saying it doesn't exist, I just haven't seen one).

You're right -- they should rush into it. Screw themselves nice and good.
 
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