OT: Philadelphia Eagles (NFL): Playoffs - Eagles Still Pick Sixth, They Just Don't Have A Coach

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Jtown

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Oct 6, 2010
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You get maybe 1 QB a decade who seems to reach a near universal consensus. I don't think you're nuts for not liking any of them.

It's not like you're saying Wilson had accuracy issues and Lance didn't. Very little is completely indefensible. No one is actually good at drafting. Although there was a really interesting discussion a while back on arm strength that explained some things I felt I hadn't been able to express:



Both Tweets seem instructive and important. Yet another reason for the @FLYguy3911 approach of not even having an opinion until you see where these guys land. Kyle Shanahan isn't going to ask someone to do what Eric Bienemy will.


i thought the flyguy3911 approach was to give an opinion after the fact, in order to never look bad?

I hate that tice tweet, its as if these people have no understanding of basic physics. velocity is what determine a balls ability to travel far ( we are not getting into parabolas) . One can simply assume if one can throw it further then that person is capable of throwing a football at a greater velocity. It is truly that simple.
 

Starat327

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May 8, 2011
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Throwing a ball really hard in to the ground makes it go farther than throwing it at a slightly slower speed but at 45 degree angle?

Man. Everything i ACTUALLY learned in physics is a lie.
 
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JojoTheWhale

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May 22, 2008
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I hate that tice tweet, its as if these people have no understanding of basic physics. velocity is what determine a balls ability to travel far ( we are not getting into parabolas) . One can simply assume if one can throw it further then that person is capable of throwing a football at a greater velocity. It is truly that simple.

You're talking about physical ability and he's speaking toward in-practice examples.

Every release is not the same. You can't have the discussion without getting into mechanics and weight transfer. On the average, there's much less windup on intermediate throws than deep balls. You see this every year when they do those wacky velocity measurements for draftable QBs.

Fun fact: Goff threw 1 mph faster than Wentz in those dopey tests. IIRC Goff was faster than every QB in the class minus Lynch, who was 1 mph higher.
 

renberg

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Dec 31, 2003
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If you're not sold on Wilson/Fields/Lance, that's a separate issue to me. Step 1 is whether you take them off your board because of Hurts, which is patently absurd and all I'm concerned with for now.

I haven't dug into it super deep yet, but my guess is that Wilson will end up above the bar to me. I have absolutely no idea on Lance and Jones/Trask/whoever else will be well below the threshold.
Why does everyone ignore Mack Jones? He’s big, semi mobile, can make all of the throws and obviously has been well schooled under Sark and Saban. He could be the type of player that Belichick gets and turns into another Brady.
 
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LegionOfDoom91

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Jan 25, 2013
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The issue is most QB’s in this league sans the few at the top can’t really carry an offense. You got guys who are mid-tier caliber QB’s who are getting paid huge contracts once they hit the market. So the allocation of capspace between the guys in the mid to elite tier QB’s isn’t as huge but the talent/effectiveness is.

For the guys not in the elite tier they need all the help they can get but their allocation of capspace often makes that difficult to accomplish unless they’re on a rookie deal.

The issue for the Eagles is this team stinks. Even ignoring getting rid of Wentz which is probably easier said than done right now. Even if Hurts does eventually become an average to above average QB will the Eagles even have a good roster built around him? Mind you he’s going into his second year out of four years on his current rookie deal.
 

BrindamoursNose

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Oct 14, 2008
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He should take have signed that contract in September. He was frustrated then too. He is kind of stuck for now.

Sounds like he may have signed it on the basis that he'd get some say in GM & Coaching decisions, so you can understand his frustration if he was pissed back then, had it smoothed over by money & promises, then they bone him on the promise of input part.
 

phil162888

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Jul 28, 2012
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Unless we get a coach that loves Hurts there's no way we should trade Carson..... If we did though we likely will get a ton more than the "experts" expect.. These teams all could use a solid QB upgrade via trade as they have playoff aspirations for 2021

NE, Pitt, SF, Wash, NO, Denver, Indy, Chicago

Who's available? Mariota, Darnold, Jimmy G, Trubisky (so essentially noone)

These teams need young Qb's that they will draft this season or next

NYJ, Jack, Carolina, LA Rams, TB, Min, Det, Atl,NO (in both camps depending on what happens with Brees)

Bottom line that's a hell of a lot of teams that need a QB so imo there's no way the Eagles should give one up based on a season in which they had the worst offensive line in their history (especially when Peters was playing) unless they get a King's ransom. So keep both and see who wins the QB competition next year unless 2 high picks are coming your way
 

TB87

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
May 30, 2018
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This is Roseman’s burner isn’t it?

 

David St Hubbins

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Jan 24, 2016
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Lurie is a buffoon. And his attachment to Howie is creepy - kinda like Howie is part boy-toy and part Rasputin.

But there is no way they should have kept Howie while firing Doug. Odds are the new HC will end up with a new boss after the train wreck that will be the '21-22 season, something no good head coach candidate would sign on for, unless they think they can out-maneuver Howie the Snake and get promoted to GM-HC when Lurie finally has to move away from his crush.
 
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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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There's a lot of crap floating around because of one losing season.

When Howie took over in 2016, basically that team was built off the 2012-13 draft, out of the two Chip drafts they got three players, Agholor, Ware and Hicks. Pederson misused Agholor (tried to turn him into a slot WR, then goes to Gruden and becomes a legitimate deep threat), Schwartz misused Ware (went elsewhere to start at SS after flopping here at CB).

So when they won the SB in 2017, it wasn't a team built off a series of drafts producing a young core, the top players were in their late 20s and early 30s, Blount (31), Jeffrey (27), Ertz (27), Peters (35), Kelce (30), Brooks (28), Lane (27), Curry (29), Cox (27), Jerrigan (25), Graham (29), Kendricks (27), Bradham (28), McLeod (27), Jenkins (30).

You're not going to blow that team up, but you also know you have a 3 year window or so before they age out and the cap forces you to dump players. So Howie choose to take a win while the window is open strategy. Backload deals to keep the gang together.

Some real bad luck, Howie trades for Darby to upgrade the CB position, started 29 of 32 games his first two seasons, comes here and starts 27 games over 3 seasons, goes to Wash and doesn't miss a game last season. Jerrigan hurts his neck, so Howie signs Malik, who hadn't missed a game in 6 seasons, and was available b/c Denver had moved to a two gap scheme, Malik gets hurt after one game. Signs Wallace as a one year patch, who missed 2 games in 9 seasons, gets hurt after 2 games in Philly. Drafts Dillard to replace Peters, Dillard tears a bicep before his second season.

Some mistakes, while Jeffery played 16 games in 2017, his history suggested he wasn't that durable and his big seasons in 2013 and 2014 were flukes, otherwise he was a meh #2 WR and not worthy of an extension. DeSean is the best big play threat in the NFL when healthy, but he was already breaking down when they signed him.

Metcalf was totally a medical evaluation, two other teams took WRs before he was chosen because teams were wary about his neck, and given the Eagles' awful luck with injuries, can't really blame them from shying away. Hindsight is 20/20, but if they draft Metcalf and he gets injured . . . remember, Sidney Jones was the same kind of 2nd rd gamble. JJAW was not the best use of that pick, however.

Some bad coaching, Chandon Sullivan (UDFA, one year with the Eagles), Jones, Douglas, Poyer, Ware, all started last year for other teams - one is luck, five is some bad DB coaching/scheming.

People like to focus on misses in the draft, but overall since 2016 Howie has a middle of the road record, hurt by the Wentz trade and trading for Darby and Slay and Avery and Tate - win now moves. With a limited number of picks he added Wents and Hurts at QB, Sanders and Scott at RB, Reagor, Watkins, Hightower, Ward, Fulgham at WR, Goedert at TE, Mailata, Dillard, Herbig, Driscoll on the OL, Sweat at DE, Singleton, Edwards, Bradley, Taylor at LB, Wallace, Epps at S. Wentz made the Pro Bowl, I'll bet Mailata will in a few years, Dillard, Sanders, Reagor? The team started getting younger this year as Howie hedged his bets.

The Eagle approach is neither good or bad, people clamor for a strong GM, but the wrong GM can deep six a franchise in three years. People want a "name" coach with control over personnel, but when AR got it we saw the "dream team," when Chip got it, we saw bad drafting and god awful decision making. There is no right structure, only right people.

Howie deferred to his coaches in the draft, and probably in free agency and trades (you really think he traded for Tate and Avery over the objections of his coaches) b/c you either get what your coaches want or get new coaches. The "best player" is contingent on your schemes, imagine Donald in a two gap defense. The Eagles have a consensus model of decision making, but I think Lurie is sincere in that the scouts identified the right players, the coaches lobbied for the wrong players. Howie deferred to the coaches b/c in a win now situation, you get what the coaches think they need to win.

The best thing that happened to the Eagles was going 4-11-1. Now they can rebuild without the SB hanging over them, they got rid of Pederson (Alabama runs a more sophisticated offense, for God's sake!), and Schwartz (whose defenses were based on an offense that can get him a lead, couldn't build a secondary in five seasons). Howie can draft and deal based on upside, not need, and build a team instead of trying to patch a team. The cap overhang will be gone in two years, all it will do is prevent signing FAs to get to 8-8 instead of 6-10 and a worse draft slot. Then in 2023 they can target a few FAs to jump start a young roster.
 

BrindamoursNose

Registered User
Oct 14, 2008
20,152
14,275
There's a lot of crap floating around because of one losing season.

When Howie took over in 2016, basically that team was built off the 2012-13 draft, out of the two Chip drafts they got three players, Agholor, Ware and Hicks. Pederson misused Agholor (tried to turn him into a slot WR, then goes to Gruden and becomes a legitimate deep threat), Schwartz misused Ware (went elsewhere to start at SS after flopping here at CB).

Who? am I losing it and don't know who this is?
 

JojoTheWhale

CORN BOY
May 22, 2008
33,813
105,456
If Alabama runs a more sophisticated offense than the Eagles, and I'm not sure they do, it's because Carson Wentz and Jalen Hurts can't handle anything more right now. This isn't hard. Wentz hasn't always been this bad and Hurts can certainly get better. But they weren't better this year.

What the hell even is this offense? Here's a Doug play, Doug play, Doug play, then Inside Zone from under center because the giant baby of a QB or Howie or both had to get a guy with that style in here to blend them together in perfect harmony or some shit.

The org is telling you they have consistently chosen EVERYONE over Doug. Believe them.
 
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