Phil Kessel's chances at the Hart Trophy?

[Stephen]

Just look at the Leafs record when Kessel tallies a point compared to the team's record when he does not. When Kessel doesn't produce, the team almost always loses. Simple as that.

I think to win a major award in Toronto, you have to be clearly head and shoulders above your competition. People in the media don't want to be accused of being some ignorant buffoon on the big market bandwagon who doesn't watch the whole league and all the obscure stars objectively. It's like when Olaf Kolzig won the Vezina over Curtis Joseph.

 

[ponder]

0%. Great player, but not that great.

 

[DD03]

0%. Great player, but not that great.

Please elaborate.

 

[ponder]

Please elaborate.

He's really good, but there's absolutely no way he's even close to as good of Hart candidate as Crosby, or even Getzlaf.

 

[TMLegend]

Please elaborate.

Bernier > Kessel to this teams success.

Edit: We've seen this song and dance before that Kessel can't carry his team to the post-season. Bernier is actually showing he might be up to the task.

 

[DD03]

Bernier > Kessel to this teams success.

Edit: We've seen this song and dance before that Kessel can't carry his team to the post-season. Bernier is actually showing he might be up to the task.

If Bernier can keep up the S% and the Leafs keep winning, say 2nd in the Atlantic. It's definitely possible one of them get it. But with Crosby being on the tear he's on, and Penguins having that succes, same as Getzlaf in Anaheim. It's hard to see him winning it. But he's definitely putting up the #'s in order to be up there for some consideration for it.

 

[TheThrill81*]

Bernier > Kessel to this teams success.

Edit: We've seen this song and dance before that Kessel can't carry his team to the post-season. Bernier is actually showing he might be up to the task.

This song and dance you speak of was a myth then, and it's a myth now. Kessel has proven himself in the regular season and the playoffs. Can't say the same for Bernier, not yet at least.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Definitely not a Hart candidate

Too many factors eliminate him from discussion

 

[Daisy Jane]

what actually qualifies you as a Hart trophy candidate?

 

[TheThrill81*]

what actually qualifies you as a Hart trophy candidate?

Nowadays it's whomever scores the most points.

Unless you score lots of points and lead an otherwise basement dweller to a post-season berth.

 

[The Bored Man]

No chance at the Hart but it's about damn time that he gets some genuine credit around the league.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Nowadays it's whomever scores the most points.

Unless you score lots of points and lead an otherwise basement dweller to a post-season berth.

Yeah pretty much. I don't see anyone catching Crosby plus Pittsburgh has been pretty dominant this season

 

[glue]

As awesome as I think Kessel is..the fact that there is even a little bit of debate whether he is the most valuable to the team probably puts him out of contention..guys like Crosby, Getzlaf you're not gonna hear about anyone else on that team being more valuable this year

 

[Daisy Jane]

so basically, every award in hockey now, other than the vezina = you have to score a lot of goals. gotcha.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

so basically, every award in hockey now, other than the vezina = you have to score a lot of goals. gotcha.

Definitely not the Selke because Bergeron is always a Selke contender

 

[TMLegend]

This song and dance you speak of was a myth then, and it's a myth now. Kessel has proven himself in the regular season and the playoffs. Can't say the same for Bernier, not yet at least.

Not a myth at all. Kessel hasn't been able to get this team close to the playoffs without the goaltenders playing at a high level. See: 2009-2012.

 

[HellasLEAF]

If he won the Art Ross he would have every bit as much a chance as Henrik Sedin did. Especially with high goal totals and possibly a Rocket Richard. Sedin was mainly assists.

He would then deserve the heart trophy, unless some goalie stud on his head all season.

Probably not these season with OV and Sid both this hot and healthy. They are generational talents.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Not a myth at all. Kessel hasn't been able to get this team close to the playoffs without the goaltenders playing at a high level. See: 2009-2012.

Every team requires elite goaltending. You see it with Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles, arguably Pittsburgh, and yet no one suggest that their forward core were not as important as the man between the pipes. Bernier is no where close to those goalies, by the way, and if he does become one, prepare to sign him to a $6-7 million contract.

I don't have a problem with that, but let's get back to reality. Personally , I don't see that kind of output yet.

 

[ACC1224]

Not a myth at all. Kessel hasn't been able to get this team close to the playoffs without the goaltenders playing at a high level. See: 2009-2012.

I'm trying to recall any Team making the Playoffs without "high level" goaltending. Any examples?

 

[TMLegend]

I'm trying to recall any Team making the Playoffs without "high level" goaltending. Any examples?

There's a few every year generally. I know for a fact Montreals goaltending wasn't very good last year. Ottawa used to ride Brian Elliott, Martin Gerber, etc, to playoff appearances.

 

[kaner13]

Crosby has 4 as well, so does Tavares.

Kulemin = Kessel = Crosby = Tavares

That is a great ratio for Kulemin, hadn't noticed that!

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

Kessel is still too lousy at defense. Leaf fans STILL point out each and every time he tries to back check. That's how seldomly he does it... That leaf fans feel the need to point it out on those rare occasions he actually does.

Give kessel Crenshinbon and he still can't succeed. And that's been proven once before...

 

[Purity*]

King of Swag is currently 2 points behind Tavares for 2nd in league scoring.


It would be incredible if King of Swag finished 2nd in overall scoring in the NHL, he would DEFINITELY garner some MVP votes.. Mind you it is quite unlikely right now, as he's rolling with some very tough company right now (but so awesome!)

 

[TheThrill81*]

Not a myth at all. Kessel hasn't been able to get this team close to the playoffs without the goaltenders playing at a high level. See: 2009-2012.

What are you talking about? Kessel has been playing at a high level every year since he's been with the Leafs, and he gets better every season. Trying to pin it solely on the goaltending is ridiculous. Fact is the Leafs wouldn't be in a playoff spot without Kessel (or Phaneuf) this season. See: every game played.

Kessel is still too lousy at defense. Leaf fans STILL point out each and every time he tries to back check. That's how seldomly he does it... That leaf fans feel the need to point it out on those rare occasions he actually does.

Give kessel Crenshinbon and he still can't succeed. And that's been proven once before...

The fact that you have to point it out proves that you're wrong about Kessel being lousy defensively. People will point it out for the benefit of haters like yourself. Kessel's not the same player he was in Boston, just accept it and move on.

 

[Garbs]

I don't think you should be in consideration for the Hart if your goaltender is in consideration for the Vezina.

I know it happens, but that's just my opinion.