Phil Kessel's chances at the Hart Trophy?

[Hero]

Crosby already won it, if not Getzlaf gets it imo.

 

[Warden of the North]

Bryan Hayes had an epic rant about how Phil will get no respect from the media concerning the Hart. I dont often agree with Hayes but he was spot on. The podcast would be Hour 1 of Mondays Leafs Lunch. Right at the start.

 

[Raymoondo]

0%.

/thread

Phil Kessel isn't even the most valuable player on his team. Never mind the whole NHL.

Who's the most valuable player then?

 

[gabeliscious]

if leafs finish 4th or better in the conference and he gets close to 90 points then i think he could get a nomination but at the end of the day i think its a losing proposition.

having said that when you compare kessel and the leafs to the other players who most likely will be nominated i think there is a significant drop off in the supporting cast that kessel has to work with. even though burke/nonis have done a decent job in getting us some pieces -kessel, jvr, lupul, phaneuf, bernier....

if you remove crosby from the pens they still have malkin who has shown he can carry the torch. im not sure if you remove kessel from the leafs if they have a prayer. not only does he put up monster numbers but he insulates players like lupul and kadri from going against other teams top players allowing them to play against less difficult competition. if lupul/kadri went against the same caliber of players as kessel im sure their numbers would not be as impressive as they are playing against their current competition.

 

[Mess]

Who's the most valuable player then?

#1 Bernier ----> #2 Phaneuf ? ----> #3 Kessel

Without Bernier and Phaneuf the results would be very different.

Kessel doesn't carry this team in leadership to make him the MVP.

In fact Kulemin and Kessel have the same amount of GWG's 4 this year for the Leafs.

 

[goonx]

It's unfortunate because Kessel's personality isn't your "in your face" media guy.

He's less noticeable than these other players so subconsciously, GMs are less likely to vote for the introverted player.

He's definitely worth of a nomination IMO.

 

[TheProspector]

Guys 2-5 in scoring or goals never seem to win this stuff. I can't think of the last time a Hart winner wasn't also a Richard or Art Ross winner, or along with a Vezina if it's a goalie.

 

[Liminality]

#1 Bernier ----> #2 Phaneuf ? ----> #3 Kessel

Without Bernier and Phaneuf the results would be very different.

Kessel doesn't carry this team in leadership to make him the MVP.

In fact Kulemin and Kessel have the same amount of GWG's 4 this year for the Leafs.

That's more coincidence than anything don't you think?

Kessel's points have won us numerous games and he has been probably just as useful as Phaneuf so far in the season which is a great thing.

 

[ACC1224]

#1 Bernier ----> #2 Phaneuf ? ----> #3 Kessel

Without Bernier and Phaneuf the results would be very different.

Kessel doesn't carry this team in leadership to make him the MVP.

In fact Kulemin and Kessel have the same amount of GWG's 4 this year for the Leafs.

Crosby has 4 as well, so does Tavares.

Kulemin = Kessel = Crosby = Tavares

 

[Mess]

That's more coincidence than anything don't you think?

Kessel's points have won us numerous games and he has been probably just as useful as Phaneuf so far in the season which is a great thing.

I'm simply pointing out that Bernier and Phaneuf are more influential on Leafs success. IMO

Thus Kessel is not even the most valuable player on his team. IMO

 

[Liminality]

I'm simply pointing out that Bernier and Phaneuf are more influential on Leafs success. IMO

Thus Kessel is not even the most valuable player on his team. IMO

Fair enough and yeah I think Bernier has been the MVP this year for the Leafs also.

 

[Hibachi]

If Kessel continues the hot streak, which is just insane, and Leafs finish second in the division, and he is like 2nd in points behind Crosby. I guarantee you that he will receive votes.

I don't think Phaneuf is more valuable, the Leafs go as Kessel goes.. Just see the last 2-3 weeks. Kessel has literally put the team on his back the last few weeks.

The only one who I can see an arguement for is Bernier, simply because of the shots our goalies face. But normally a goalie with that record won't get MVP, it will go to the offensive player who would get 90ish points, or say 100 like Crosby.

I guarantee you if Crosby puts up 100 points, and Fleury plays out of this world, like simply amazing and is the best player on the ice most nights. Crosby will still get MVP and Fleury would just get Vezina. Its just the nature of how awards are done.

And those people trying to base GWGs for MVP, absolutely hilarious....

 

[Mess]

Fair enough and yeah I think Bernier has been the MVP this year for the Leafs also.

Same situation applies in TB.

TB is near the top of the Eastern Conference standings and played without Stamkos for the majority of the time.. He has scored 50-60 goals on numerous occasions even won the Rocket as the league leading goal scorer and never won the Hart.

Take away Bishop and TB is where Florida is in the standings.That makes Bishop a bigger MVP to his own team then even Stamkos.

Kessel is not Stamkos, not scored at that level yet..

 

[Hibachi]

Same situation applies in TB.

TB is near the top of the Eastern Conference standings and played without Stamkos for the majority of the time.. He has scored 50-60 goals on numerous occasions even won the Rocket as the league leading goal scorer and never won the Hart.

Take away Bishop and TB is where Florida is in the standings.That makes Bishop a bigger MVP to his own team then even Stamkos.

Kessel is not Stamkos, not scored at that level yet..

He never won hart because his team was never near the top while he was producing those goals/points. I guarantee you that during the season Stamkos put up 60 goals, if TB was top 2 in the East, he would win hart easily.

I mean, theres a reason why a goalie hasn't won Hart since Hasek, it just doesn't happen, no matter how good numbers they put up. They have to be putting up insane numbers, like mind boggling. And we have seen great goalie performances during the season since Hasek won it.

Speaks volumes that forwards are usually more likely to win it, regardless of how good the goalie was on their team.

 

[TheThrill81*]

#1 Bernier ----> #2 Phaneuf ? ----> #3 Kessel

Without Bernier and Phaneuf the results would be very different.

Kessel doesn't carry this team in leadership to make him the MVP.

In fact Kulemin and Kessel have the same amount of GWG's 4 this year for the Leafs.

Phaneuf and Kessel.


That is all.

 

[Semantics]

I agree that Phaneuf is more valuable, I think Kessel is great but realistically he's an offensive specialist and the team wouldn't be that much worse if you replaced him with a less dynamic winger with a 200 foot game. And since the 2nd PP unit has been pretty good, I think even the PP could still be good without him.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Chances of Phil Kessel winning the Hart Trophy: 0

 

[Avec Fromage*]

Phaneuf is the MVP of this team. He has improved his defensive game tremendously and is the most consistent player on this team as well. Some will argue for Bernier, but we'd be fine if Reimer was starting instead. Kessel would probably follow Phaneuf.

In other words, no chance at the Hart for 81.

 

[DD03]

As long as he stays a top the scoring leaders. He'll get consideration. People are looking far too much into this. It goes by the #'s. Everyone knows that.

 

[leach11]

Just look at the Leafs record when Kessel tallies a point compared to the team's record when he does not. When Kessel doesn't produce, the team almost always loses. Simple as that.

 

[leach11]

#1 Bernier ----> #2 Phaneuf ? ----> #3 Kessel

Without Bernier and Phaneuf the results would be very different.

Kessel doesn't carry this team in leadership to make him the MVP.

In fact Kulemin and Kessel have the same amount of GWG's 4 this year for the Leafs.

Seriously...are you actually trying to infer that GWG's determine who's chosen as MVP?

Well, sorry Sidney! Looks like you aint getting the Hart this year.

 

[gabeliscious]

I agree that Phaneuf is more valuable, I think Kessel is great but realistically he's an offensive specialist and the team wouldn't be that much worse if you replaced him with a less dynamic winger with a 200 foot game. And since the 2nd PP unit has been pretty good, I think even the PP could still be good without him.

your selling kessel short if you think the leafs wouldnt be that much worse without him. i can appreciate the argument the phaneuf should be the leafs mvp or even bernier because it is indisputable that without them the team would not be where it is today but to dismiss kessels offense is silly imo.

kessel brings game breaking offense. he has the ability to change the course of the game by scoring a significant goal. phaneuf can do that as well technically although i cant think of any examples of when phaneuf decided it was go time and scored a beauty.

i can think of several times when bernier made a game saving stop though, i guess its pretty close between the 3,

 

[stickyiki]

 

[nsleaf]

Really? All you ever hear is how important he is to the team, how if he doesn't perform the Leafs don't either. I swear people have this bias against Leaf players, even their own fans fall for that kind of crap. Put Kessel on any other team and he'd be considered for it. Not saying Kessel deserves it but holy, if we had Crosby I'm sure a good portion of the fan base would crap on him too

Well of course they would. Goes without saying. That is the nature of the TML fanbase.

 

[Raymoondo]

#1 Bernier ----> #2 Phaneuf ? ----> #3 Kessel

Without Bernier and Phaneuf the results would be very different.

Kessel doesn't carry this team in leadership to make him the MVP.

In fact Kulemin and Kessel have the same amount of GWG's 4 this year for the Leafs.

Without Kessel you have 30 less goals, and probably more than that because your first line won't be producing nearly as well. You can't base importance on how many GWG's they have. Also, although Bernier has bailed them out several times, that is the job of the goalie. Same with Phaneuf, except in a defensive perspective of course.