Confirmed with Link: Phil Kessel traded - Part III

[dubey]

The only other team that even sniffed Kessel was Calgary

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/...-trade-benefits-both-penguins-and-maple-leafs

Other than the Calgary Flames dabbling a little, the Leafs had no other real options. It was Pittsburgh or bust. From that perspective, whether the prospects in the deal pan out or not, the Leafs probably did as well as they could given the circumstances.

Unreal. Must have been the other team that wanted Toronto to eat $2MM of his cap hit.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Yes. He's very comparable Nylander in skill level. I'm not sure why some posters are upset with Kapanen. The kid is blue chipper and was right there with Nylander and Ehlers in his draft year.

Kapanen/Nylander/Marner is a lot of skill to build around in the future. The Marlies will be an exciting team this year.

I am trying to figure out what is making people upset

Is it that Kapanen isn't Maata or Pouliot?
Kapanen seems to be very high on everything that this organization wants (smarts, speed, skill - his shot is off, according to his draft profile on TSN). and he's young and can be developed within the system.

Is it because Harrington isn't a blue chip himself?
Okay, that's fair, but if he can provide 22 minutes of solid defense, and buys into Babcock's system, is that horrendous?

Is that we had to retain?
well I think the obvious choice was to take cap dumps but the cap dumps didn't want to come here. (everyone who has a questionable contract had a No Trade/Move, and
the Leafs were on it).

Is it that we had to give up the 2nd?
okay, but Pittsburgh didn't want to have first 2 rounds being pick-less. (one could even argue this builds better trade relations. I don't know).

Is it that we had to double protect the 1st rounder?
everyone protects the first rounder. What I'm not understanding is why we don't get a 1st period, so that is the eyebrow raiser for me.

I am really trying to be open minded here - because other than not having "elite talent" coming back (to which the argument was 6 years ago the 1st rounders were supposed to be, middle of the pack, and see how Boston developed them). And it looks like to me that's exactly what we got back. (PLUS cap space, PLUS a rebuilding structure PLUS a new financial dichotomy with in the organization - our highest paid player (on Forward) is Nathan Horton).

 

[dubey]

He's older, his body won't respond as quickly, certain injuries are more difficult to come back from at this age, are more apt to affect speed, and he's had his payday.

All factors to consider when evaluating risk.

lol

He's 27

 

[MJ65]

There is no question that Phil Kessel is a excellent hockey player and a genuine goal scorer, but the problem is that everyone in the league was aware that Leafs had to trade him and we were not starting from a position of strength:
Kessel is an excellent goal scorer, and he has succeeded with a terrible supporting cast, but the fact is, even though he’s been producing at elite levels, but the fact is that the other team were also producing at the similar level (when he was on the line).

Trying to trade a player who just signed a eight year extension is a big red flag and there were only eight teams he could be traded to (not sure how many of those 8 were interested)

The salary retention of $1.2 M is not really a big deal, which is less than the cap increase for next year and with expansion looming, it’s bound to go up significantly over the # of years

With all the problems involved in trying to trade Kessel, we should ask ourselves lf the Leafs accomplish their goal with the Kessel trade and if the Leafs get fair value for Kessel

I think they did accomplish their, and so I think this deal is a success for the Leafs.
The Leafs needed to move Kessel for various reasons, as his skill is likely going to decline by the time the Leafs are competitive again. He allows us to inject depth to our prospect pipeline and total assets. We clearly needed to change the culture and the make-up of this team, and the Leafs needed the cap flexibility.

The trade with the Penguins meets all these criteria and they, despite the fact that the return we got is not what we were expecting

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

I think the chances of Pittsburgh missing the playoffs is quite slim. We are almost certainly getting their 1st next year

 

[Mess]

I think the biggest relief of this Kessel trade is that any Hybrid rebuild is simply now Leafs forced to keep player they would like to move and nobody wants in trade.

The Kessel trade is the tipping point that we aren't trying to rehabilitate players under Babcock to increase value and have the same rotten core returning again.

If Leafs would have have kept Kessel and Phaneuf and simply dumped Lupul and Bozak it would have been more a retooling than a true draft rebuild.

One of Phil or Dion had to go and preferably both as change is just as important as the return because the recaptured $6.75 mil X 7 years could become a real weapon to give the Leafs flexibility for teams cap strapped or and unexpected RFA can't come to terms or a UFA next year hits the market.

 

[topched]

Ironically everything you just said goes the other way. How many people were instantly talking about the potential and skill of Kapenen minutes after the trade went through? Everyone makes opinions a few minutes after this kind of thing happens. It just varies depending if the person agrees or disagrees with what just happened.

It's fine to ask for patience, but then ask for it on both sides.

But here's the thing, the potential and skill of Kapenen is well documented. Scouting reports from 12 months ago during his draft year and reports since are consistent. The message from Shanahan and Dubas are clear in what they believe about the kid as a player. Everything else is a fabrication or jumped to conclusion based on very little evidence

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally fine with being critical of the Kesse trade. If you want to compare this return to returns for other elite players go for it, Kapenen is a 1st Rd pick, Harrington is a 2nd that is a little farther along, and we picked up another 1st and 3rd while retaining cap and giving Pitt back their 2nd. Those are cold hard facts that anyone can use as a comparable

But, my problem lies in people with little exposure to Kapanen making sweeping generalizations about his potential when it pretty much goes against reports and comments made by our management group

 

[The Examiner]

He's older, his body won't respond as quickly, certain injuries are more difficult to come back from at this age, are more apt to affect speed, and he's had his payday.

All factors to consider when evaluating risk.

You questioned his dedication to come back from injury. You have no possible way of knowing how dedicated he would be to coming back except "feelings". I gave examples of him coming back from some pretty terrible situations. Situations that would take dedication to come back from.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I think the biggest relief of this Kessel trade is that any Hybrid rebuild is simply now Leafs forced to keep player they would like to move and nobody wants in trade.

The Kessel trade is the tipping point that we aren't trying to rehabilitate players under Babcock to increase value and have the same rotten core returning again.

If Leafs would have have kept Kessel and Phaneuf and simply dumped Lupul and Bozak it would have been more a retooling than a true draft rebuild.

One of Phil or Dion had to go and preferably both as change is just as important as the return because the recaptured $6.75 mil X 7 years could become a real weapon to give the Leafs flexibility for teams cap strapped or and unexpected RFA can't come to terms or a UFA next year hits the market.

The chatter on Dion has died down according to Mac. Maybe this is the hybrid retool. One had to go. One gets a reprieve.

 

[The Examiner]

The chatter on Dion has died down according to Mac. Maybe this is the hybrid retool. One had to go. One gets a reprieve.

That's because the media focussed all their effort on bashing Phil. Dion is their best friend now. Don't worry, once the season starts and they get bored, Dion will be their whipping boy once again.

 

[MJ65]

I think the biggest relief of this Kessel trade is that any Hybrid rebuild is simply now Leafs forced to keep player they would like to move and nobody wants in trade.

The Kessel trade is the tipping point that we aren't trying to rehabilitate players under Babcock to increase value and have the same rotten core returning again.

If Leafs would have have kept Kessel and Phaneuf and simply dumped Lupul and Bozak it would have been more a retooling than a true draft rebuild.

One of Phil or Dion had to go and preferably both as change is just as important as the return because the recaptured $6.75 mil X 7 years could become a real weapon to give the Leafs flexibility for teams cap strapped or and unexpected RFA can't come to terms or a UFA next year hits the market.

The chatter on Dion has died down according to Mac. Maybe this is the hybrid retool. One had to go. One gets a reprieve.

I don't think it's a hybrid retool, as I believe that they are going to trade both Phaneuf and Bozak at some point (sooner or later)

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Ironically everything you just said goes the other way. How many people were instantly talking about the potential and skill of Kapenen minutes after the trade went through? Everyone makes opinions a few minutes after this kind of thing happens. It just varies depending if the person agrees or disagrees with what just happened.

It's fine to ask for patience, but then ask for it on both sides.

Kapanen was the logical choice once it became clear we were not getting Pittsburg's 2 best young players. Maata or Pouliot. I'm actually curious of this Oskar Sundqvist. A 6.03 -- Weight 209 Center from Sweden. He is actually rated ahead of Kapanen on Pens Future prospects list.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

The only other team that even sniffed Kessel was Calgary

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/...-trade-benefits-both-penguins-and-maple-leafs

Unreal. Must have been the other team that wanted Toronto to eat $2MM of his cap hit.

That's nuts. I know his contract was long and expensive but really?

 

[Mess]

I think the chances of Pittsburgh missing the playoffs is quite slim. We are almost certainly getting their 1st next year

Pitts is going to quickly realize how much of a black hole Kessel is defensively as he bleeds goals against.

Also now Pens are cap heavy at forward and their team depth is going to be weak. Pens only have 8 forwards under contract and no backup goalie and a little over $ 6 mil in free cap.

Pens being the #8th seed and Wild card team that gets dusted in round #1 could give the Leafs ideally a pick 15-17 in next years draft.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I don't think it's a hybrid retool, as I believe that they are going to trade both Phaneuf and Bozak at some point (sooner or later)

They seem sincere in rebuilding. Rome wasn't built in a day, I could see 1 other core piece moving (likely Bozak) and then maybe during the year or next summer, JVR and/or Lupul move.

 

[AppsSyl]

They seem sincere in rebuilding. Rome wasn't built in a day, I could see 1 other core piece moving (likely Bozak) and then maybe during the year or next summer, JVR and/or Lupul move.

I just have a feeling they are gonna move JVR. I don't think they want to be put in a bad position when his NTC kicks in after the season.

 

[Mess]

Steve Simmons wishing Kessel well in today's article.

SIMMONS: Leafs were sick and tired of Phil Kessel

TORONTO - The hot dog vendor who parks daily at Front and John Sts. just lost his most reliable customer. Almost every afternoon at 2:30 p.m., often wearing a toque, Phil Kessel would wander from his neighbourhood condominium to consume his daily snack.

And now he’s gone. Just like that. The Maple Leafs could no longer stomach having Kessel around, the first player to be both punished and rewarded for the saddest Leafs season in history. The Leafs held their breath, plugged their noses, and ostensibly gave Kessel to the Pittsburgh Penguins because they couldn’t stand having him around anymore.

Really, this was as much about illness and insomnia as anything else: The Leafs were sick and tired of Kessel.

Sick of his act. Tired of his lack of responsibility. Unwilling to begin any reset or rebuild with their highest-paid, most talented, least-dedicated player. He didn’t eat right, train right, play right. This had to happen for Brendan Shanahan to begin his rebuilding of the Leafs. Separation between the Leafs and Kessel became necessary when it grew more and more apparent with time that everything Shanahan values was upended by Kessel’s singular, laissez-faire, flippant, mostly uncoachable ways.

Continued: http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Toronto/2015/07/01/22483591.html

 

[WTFMAN99]

I just have a feeling they are gonna move JVR. I don't think they want to be put in a bad position when his NTC kicks in after the season.

If the offer makes sense this summer, take it for sure.

You can also easily move JVR at the TDL too.

Steve Simmons wishing Kessel well in today's article.

The hot dog stuff seems overblown to me, what is Simmons doing, stalking Kessel?

 

[AppsSyl]

If the offer makes sense this summer, take it for sure.

You can also easily move JVR at the TDL too.



The hot dog stuff seems overblown to me, what is Simmons doing, stalking Kessel?

I totally agree. I would be more apt to voice criticism if we don't get a decent return for him, given his age, skill, size and favourable contract.

 

[I Believe]

Another garbage article by Simmons.

Not sure why every player we trade away has to be demonized.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I totally agree. I would be more apt to voice criticism if we don't get a decent return for him, given his age, skill, size and favourable contract.

Said in the other thread but if you can move JVR for a young high upside RHD, that is the ideal scenario.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't think it's a hybrid retool, as I believe that they are going to trade both Phaneuf and Bozak at some point (sooner or later)

"Hybrid retool" is just a phrase used by those who view themselves sharper than others, it really has no meaning similar to "proper rebuild".

The Leafs are rebuilding.

 

[Joey Hoser]

He's older, his body won't respond as quickly, certain injuries are more difficult to come back from at this age, are more apt to affect speed, and he's had his payday.

All factors to consider when evaluating risk.

How old do you think Kessel is? I think you have him confused with someone else.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

If the offer makes sense this summer, take it for sure.

You can also easily move JVR at the TDL too.



The hot dog stuff seems overblown to me, what is Simmons doing, stalking Kessel?

Simmons is a no talent hack. It's a disservice to the profession of journalism that he considers himself a journalist. He's a tabloid reporter at best.

 

[Mess]

James Mirtle on Kessel

Mirtle: Leafs viewed dumping Kessel as essential to their rebuild

Brendan Shanahan didn’t want Phil Kessel.

There’s really no other way to read into what happened on Canada Day than that. The Toronto Maple Leafs went into the two weeks after the Stanley Cup final if not hell-bent then at least incredibly determined to trade their top scorer.

Even if the return was underwhelming. As it was.

Kasperi Kapanen is a fine prospect. You always want to add first-round picks, too – although preferably they wouldn’t be as heavily lottery protected as the one the Leafs got from Pittsburgh is. And who knows on Scott Harrington, a 22-year-old defensive prospect whose career screams NHL-AHL tweener?

But combined with the fact the Leafs (a) will have $8.4-million of Kessel’s salary on their cap the next seven years and (b) that they threw in a second-round pick and (c) that they didn’t get one of the Penguins top two prospects (defencemen Olli Maatta and Derrick Pouliot) and (d) they paid Kessel’s $4-million bonus on July 1, well, let’s just say the return here was not substantial.

Continued: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ild/article25224289/?cmpid=rss1&click=dlvr.it