Phil Kessel. Trade Watch On? | He's Literally Frozen

[Willchel Marlynder]

All New Encompassing Phil Kessel Thread

Last one filled, new one commenses.

Let me just say this first. I want Phil Kessel traded as it benefits the Leafs in the long run.

Now that that's out of the way heres my opinion on the Kessel vs Kane comparisons. Personally I think Kane is the better player overall. He goes to high scoring areas can play on the boards and is fearless on the ice. Kessel is still easily a better goal scorer and I'd give him the slight edge in playmaking ability. Saying that, I can't believe people can think Kane is the better player AINEC. Kane plays on one of the best teams in the NHL. Kessel does not. If Kane isn't on Chicago the Hawks are still a good team. if Kessel isn't on the Leafs lol top 5 lottery team no doubt. As for comparing their stats stop being naive. Yes Kane has the better stats, but thats because as a 18/19 year old he was the better scorer. As of right now Kessel is the better scorer. The argument that Kane is better now because he has more career points is incorrect.

Player a points at 19: 140
Player b points at 19: 50

Player a points at 25: 500
Player b points at 25: 480

According to some people player a is the better scores because he has more points. That's laughable. Kane broke out much earlier than Kessel did. For a certain period of time yes Kane was the better scorer, not anymore. Im sure if Kessel got to play on a line with Toews for 4 years his numbers would be much higher as well, so let's stop acting like Kane is the better scorer.


Anyway just wanted to get that out there. Let the general Phil Kessel discussion begin.

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[gtforepro]

The Leafs are better 5on5 without Phil Kessel on the ice. Phil Kessel is hockey's Allen Iverson. He puts up numbers, but he doesn't help you win.

 

[CDN24]

Last one filled, new one commenses.

Let me just say this first. I want Phil Kessel traded as it benefits the Leafs in the long run.

Now that that's out of the way heres my opinion on the Kessel vs Kane comparisons. Personally I think Kane is the better player overall. He goes to high scoring areas can play on the boards and is fearless on the ice. Kessel is still easily a better goal scorer and I'd give him the slight edge in playmaking ability. Saying that, I can't believe people can think Kane is the better player AINEC. Kane plays on one of the best teams in the NHL. Kessel does not. If Kane isn't on Chicago the Hawks are still a good team. if Kessel isn't on the Leafs lol top 5 lottery team no doubt. As for comparing their stats stop being naive. Yes Kane has the better stats, but thats because as a 18/19 year old he was the better scorer. As of right now Kessel is the better scorer. The argument that Kane is better now because he has more career points is incorrect.

Player a points at 19: 140
Player b points at 19: 50

Player a points at 25: 500
Player b points at 25: 480

According to some people player a is the better scores because he has more points. That's laughable. Kane broke out much earlier than Kessel did. For a certain period of time yes Kane was the better scorer, not anymore. Im sure if Kessel got to play on a line with Toews for 4 years his numbers would be much higher as well, so let's stop acting like Kane is the better scorer.


Anyway just wanted to get that out there. Let the general Phil Kessel discussion begin.

Actually I think the reverse is true, if kessel got to play with Toews in Chicago he would be expected to be more defensively responsible and offense would suffer for the sake of team defense. he would also have less minutes and less PP minutes on the hawks. Usually a good player on a bad team has better offensive stats than he would have on a good team with some depth.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Actually I think the reverse is true, if kessel got to play with Toews in Chicago he would be expected to be more defensively responsible and offense would suffer for the sake of team defense. he would also have less minutes and less PP minutes on the hawks. Usually a good player on a bad team has better offensive stats than he would have on a good team with some depth.

What? Is Kane expected to forgo all offense to play better defensively? Obviously Kessel would be expected to buy into the system, but Kessel would be playing with one of the best two way practically ppg center in the league. Your under estimating the overall quantity that Toews brings when compared to a meh center who's never reached 50 points in his career. Kessel's numbers would undoubtedly improve. Also, one of the best goal scorers in the league having less PP time? What? Why exactly is that?

 

[Rude Dog]

Looks like Kessel is to blame for me not marrying Jessica Alba. Can't believe everyone jumping all over this guy. Appreciate him for what he brings. Yes, he needs to look in the mirror and do more...but money aside...I feel bad for him.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Phil let in 6 goals last night. You just can't win when your best player lets in 6 goals.

 

[Hugh Mongusbig]

Kessel is better than Kaner, yeah OK. LOL.

This is laughable. 9 out of 10 hockey fans (outside Toronto) would take Kaner over Kessel any day of the week. Kaner is a higher PPG player over his career than Kessel, he actually battles for the puck, works the boards, goes to tough areas and is a +50 player over his career.

Meanwhile, Kessel is a -50 career player that is voted Mr. Irrelevant at the All-Star game when players/teams are chosen by their peers.

 

[Mess]

Kessel after a coaching change and accusations that he is uncoachable didn't have a very good game last night with lots of turnovers and mistakes to silence his critics.

I was expecting a much better and larger impact from the Thrill.

 

[Ari91]

Kessel after a coaching change and accusations that he is uncoachable didn't have a very good game last night with lots of turnovers and mistakes to silence his critics.

I was expecting a much better and larger impact from the Thrill.

I think it's a great attribute when an athlete can be motivated by negativity but I don't think that's Kessel's demeanor.

 

[JAMmer124]

Kessel is better than Kaner, yeah OK. LOL.

This is laughable. 9 out of 10 hockey fans (outside Toronto) would take Kaner over Kessel any day of the week. Kaner is a higher PPG player over his career than Kessel, he actually battles for the puck, works the boards, goes to tough areas and is a +50 player over his career.

Meanwhile, Kessel is a -50 career player that is voted Mr. Irrelevant at the All-Star game when players/teams are chosen by their peers.

First off, never use plus minus when comparing players on different teams. Its a team stat.

Secondly, Kane has been playing on the best team in hockey the last 5 years, his numbers (ESPECIALLY +/-) will be inflated.

Kane plays on a team with Marian Hossa, Patrick Sharp, Jonathon Toews, Duncan Keith, and Brent Seabrook.

Kessel plays on a team with James van Riemsdyk, Tyler Bozak, Nazem Kadri, Dion Phaneuf, and Cody Franson.

I'm not saying Kessel>Kane, I don't believe that's true. I'd argue they're comparable players that are pretty equal, but you can't compare their stats, its just unfair.

 

[mashedpotato]

When Kessel doesn't have the puck he's not very good; He's never seen the corner of the defensive end and patrols the defensive blue line like a floater. When it's time to break out he hits the hashmark for a pass.

When Kessel has the puck and going down the lane with limited coverage, he's good.



This should pretty much sum up his on ice method of operation.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Kessel is better than Kaner, yeah OK. LOL.

This is laughable. 9 out of 10 hockey fans (outside Toronto) would take Kaner over Kessel any day of the week. Kaner is a higher PPG player over his career than Kessel, he actually battles for the puck, works the boards, goes to tough areas and is a +50 player over his career.

Meanwhile, Kessel is a -50 career player that is voted Mr. Irrelevant at the All-Star game when players/teams are chosen by their peers.

Considering the teams they play for, these are mighty impressive numbers for Phil. And you're actually using them to support the argument that Kane is a better player?

If only Phil had blocked a few shots last night, we would have won for sure.

 

[Hugh Mongusbig]

I'd argue they're comparable players that are pretty equal, but you can't compare their stats, its just unfair.

They are NOT comparable players. I would take Kaner over Kessel any day of the week. They are two completely different players that play two completely different styles of hockey. Only one of them is considered a complete player and only one of them has found continued success in a team sport.

You offer me Kaner at $8M/season, I'd jump on it. Offer me Kessel at $8M per and you can keep him.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Kessel is better than Kaner, yeah OK. LOL.

This is laughable. 9 out of 10 hockey fans (outside Toronto) would take Kaner over Kessel any day of the week. Kaner is a higher PPG player over his career than Kessel, he actually battles for the puck, works the boards, goes to tough areas and is a +50 player over his career.

Meanwhile, Kessel is a -50 career player that is voted Mr. Irrelevant at the All-Star game when players/teams are chosen by their peers.

The argument is Kessel was voted as best forward at the Olympics which automatically makes him better than Kane...Leaf fans logic.

Wouldn't that make Kessel better than ANY forward in the NHL? I bet some delusional fans actually believe that.

Following this brilliant logic..I guess Max Domi is better than Connor McDavid and Jack Eichel too. Brilliant.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Kessel after a coaching change and accusations that he is uncoachable didn't have a very good game last night with lots of turnovers and mistakes to silence his critics.

I was expecting a much better and larger impact from the Thrill.

Best effort he had shown in a very long time defensively though. He was trying. Yeah it affected his natural instincts to cheat and break for open ice and all that good mixed bad tendencies he has.

They better not try running him down to much on offense either though. Last night you could tell he was resisting urges lol. There is a fine line in how far you want to tame him down on the cheating.

He needs to play alot more loose than he wad last night.

Everyone should understand him by now I think. The only thing they should be asking from him right now is to come back hard and make a hit defensively. Keep it simple with him. That keeps him in the game and he would feel better about himself for it.

That's it. That would be enough.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Considering the teams they play for, these are mighty impressive numbers for Phil. And you're actually using them to support the argument that Kane is a better player?

If only Phil had blocked a few shots last night, we would have won for sure.

Im willing to bet that Kessel's impressive stats would decline if anybody actually asked him to play some defense? His "ironman" streak would come to an end if he actually hit anybody or let anybody hit him to make a play. I like you Gary Nylund. I understand most of your posts but this Kessel love is actually surprising from what seems a fairly smart hockey guy. I'm starting to wonder if you people actually have watched Pat Kane play hockey. He is so not Kessel. Not on any level at all.

 

[wmark]

Phil is our misfit toy. (I see him as the polka dot elephant)

He is a castaway, but still a good toy.

I do not see why people are now blaming him for this collapse. Yes, he's part of it, but to use his salary as to why he has to produce more is ridiculous. (where are JVR and Bozak?)

Criticize his defense game but don't criticize him personally.

Some of the fan base have been calling him uncoachable, fat, soft and even comparing him to Jian Ghomeshi, this needs to stop.

The character assassination is unreal.

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

I hope Kessel gets traded for his sake, not for the sake of the Toronto Maple Leafs and its stupid fans and stupid media.

Maybe we need the days of Blake, Stajan and Ponikarovsky back to truly appreciate what good players look like.

 

[613Leafer]

I hope Kessel gets traded for his sake, not for the sake of the Toronto Maple Leafs and its stupid fans and stupid media.

Maybe we need the days of Blake, Stajan and Ponikarovsky back to truly appreciate what good players look like.

We finished 7th last in the league the first season without Sundin, we finished 8th last this past season and 5th last two seasons ago with this core. Yep, Kessel and our current core have really carried us to greatness...

 

[hockeyfanz*]

We finished 7th last in the league the first season without Sundin, we finished 8th last this past season and 5th last two seasons ago with this core. Yep, Kessel and our current core have really carried us to greatness...

Yeah...Leafs have been doing a lot of winning with Kessel and Phaneuf as the centerpieces. Can't possibly think of changing things up and break up this dynasty.

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

We finished 7th last in the league the first season without Sundin, we finished 8th last this past season and 5th last two seasons ago with this core. Yep, Kessel and our current core have really carried us to greatness...

Nothing of what you just said proves that Kessel is not a great player, and far better than any player we had in the era post-Sundin to pre-Kessel.

Is Taylor Hall not a great player?

Is John Tavares not a great player?

Until this year, the Islanders sucked JUST AS BAD as the Leafs. But no one in their right mind would blame their suckage on Tavares. Same with Edmonton and Hall.

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

Yeah...Leafs have been doing a lot of winning with Kessel and Phaneuf as the centerpieces. Can't possibly think of changing things up and break up this dynasty.

I'm not saying don't consider it. I'm saying that those blaming the Leafs' suckage on Kessel are, to put it bluntly, stupid. The fact that he is our best player to me, is more of an indictment on the GM than on anyone else. Maybe adding to Phil Kessel could be a solution? Maybe a centre other than Tyler Bozak could be a solution? Maybe an improved defense could be a solution? How about all three?

How can you expect to win when your top line centre is Tyler Bozak - and I'm not even mad at Bozak here - but he is seriously, seriously miscast! He is a 3rd line centre on a contending team? His statistics literally prove beyond reasonable doubt that he is completely miscast? How can you expect to win when you have players like Jake Gardiner playing defense, who literally has no idea what he is doing? How can you expect to win when you have Cody Franson and Dion Phaneuf as your top pairing?

This team is simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH! It's time people realize it. There is a difference between being a fast skater, or having dangles, or having a booming slapshot, and actually being an effective NHLer. The Leafs have a few players who have great skills, but can not put them together. The result is a bad team.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Nothing of what you just said proves that Kessel is not a great player, and far better than any player we had in the era post-Sundin to pre-Kessel.

Is Taylor Hall not a great player?

Is John Tavares not a great player?

Until this year, the Islanders sucked JUST AS BAD as the Leafs. But no one in their right mind would blame their suckage on Tavares. Same with Edmonton and Hall.

Except Kessel is not Hall or Tavares. So whats your point? At this point....you wouldn't get anybody to trade you Tavares for Phil straight up. NO chance. Hall for Kessel maybe. The Leafs would be a bit further ahead cause Hall is cheaper and younger. They would still suck though. Id still do it. Hall plays with that good ole Canadian passion. Probably why he gets injured. Pretty easy to stay healthy when the only time anybody touches you, is when you have your head down. Thats Phil. Cant hit him..because he is either behind the D or he unloads the puck before anybody gets near him.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Last one filled, new one commenses.

Let me just say this first. I want Phil Kessel traded as it benefits the Leafs in the long run.

Now that that's out of the way heres my opinion on the Kessel vs Kane comparisons. Personally I think Kane is the better player overall. He goes to high scoring areas can play on the boards and is fearless on the ice. Kessel is still easily a better goal scorer and I'd give him the slight edge in playmaking ability. Saying that, I can't believe people can think Kane is the better player AINEC. Kane plays on one of the best teams in the NHL. Kessel does not. If Kane isn't on Chicago the Hawks are still a good team. if Kessel isn't on the Leafs lol top 5 lottery team no doubt. As for comparing their stats stop being naive. Yes Kane has the better stats, but thats because as a 18/19 year old he was the better scorer. As of right now Kessel is the better scorer. The argument that Kane is better now because he has more career points is incorrect.

Player a points at 19: 140
Player b points at 19: 50

Player a points at 25: 500
Player b points at 25: 480

According to some people player a is the better scores because he has more points. That's laughable. Kane broke out much earlier than Kessel did. For a certain period of time yes Kane was the better scorer, not anymore. Im sure if Kessel got to play on a line with Toews for 4 years his numbers would be much higher as well, so let's stop acting like Kane is the better scorer.


Anyway just wanted to get that out there. Let the general Phil Kessel discussion begin.

Kessel being a better playmaker then Kane? Kane is an actual playmaker who happens to have a good shot as well. Kessel is a sniper who happens to be able to make good passes. But when it comes to dishing the puck around Kane beats Kessel. Most of Kessels assists comes from him shooting the puck towards net and some one slot home the rebound. Or Kessel and one of his linemates goes on a rush and Kessel can use his pace to get ahead of the defense and make a "simple" short pass for a goal. That is not how a playmakers operates. But he do have the technical puck skills to make sweet, hard and accurate passes. You will just rarely see him make saucer passes, passes into empty ice for a teammate to move in to etc. Typical playmakers passes.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Phil is our misfit toy. (I see him as the polka dot elephant)

He is a castaway, but still a good toy.

I do not see why people are now blaming him for this collapse. Yes, he's part of it, but to use his salary as to why he has to produce more is ridiculous. (where are JVR and Bozak?)

Criticize his defense game but don't criticize him personally.

Some of the fan base have been calling him uncoachable, fat, soft and even comparing him to Jian Ghomeshi, this needs to stop.

The character assassination is unreal.

Yep. Thank you. Players need to reinvent themselves all the time. He's no different. Far as his salary goes, its up to the coach to coach a better game out of him all the time too. So coach him.