Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc. (Dec.-Jan. edition)

[NYCFlyer]

I'd like to see Hagg brought up to see what we have and so other teams can see him in the nhl . Helps if we trade him or keep him if he can perform and don't think we lose much value if he doesnt.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Hagg needs to prove himself in the AHL before we talk about a call-up. He's likely at best third on the call-up list down there right now.

 

[deadhead]

Hagg might be called up before Sanheim and Morin if he's not gong to play every game but they want to see him in NHL action. With Sanheim and Morin, they want them on the ice learning, with Hagg, they may use injuries as a chance to evaluate his progress.

Different strategic objectives for different prospects at different points in their development.

 

[Striiker]

Hextall isn't calling Hagg up just to see how he plays. Only way Hagg comes up is if he believes Hagg gives them the best chance to win.

Did we already forget Hextalls rant about not caring about seeing new players like the fans and media and only caring about wins? Well seeing how far along in their development they are by just tossing them into games is just as unlikely.

Leier didn't come up as a test, he believed he was the best available replacement for Read.

 

[Tripod]

We don't need to recall Hagg to evaluate his progress....that's what the AHL is for.

Let him prove he deserves the callup.

Of course that changes when he is no longer waiver exempt. Until then, let him play in the AHL.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

We don't need to recall Hagg to evaluate his progress....that's what the AHL is for.

Let him prove he deserves the callup.

Of course that changes when he is no longer waiver exempt. Until then, let him play in the AHL.

To be fair he is still not ready for the big league and with his history of inconsistency he needs to have a big stretch of solid play to warrant Nhl time.

 

[FLYguy3911]

They have potentially 127 games left plus playoffs to evaluate Hagg in the AHL. They don't need to do anything until then.

What does Rubtsov coming here mean for his development. I know it's a good thing, but does it shed a year off?

He doesn't have an NHL contract but if he does sign it will slide this season and next season as long as he doesn't play more than 9 games in the NHL. Finishing the rest of this season out in the Q would be a good thing in my opinion. He's kind of stuck with his club team right now. Probably too good to keep playing in the MHL but not good enough to be a full time KHL player. The Q would be a step up from the MHL imo and 3 months and playoffs in North America could be good for him. Chicoutimi plays on international ice so the transition wouldn't be too harsh. I wouldn't want him to play next season in the Q though. I'd prefer that he play in the KHL or AHL if he's physically ready.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

We don't need to recall Hagg to evaluate his progress....that's what the AHL is for.

Let him prove he deserves the callup.

Of course that changes when he is no longer waiver exempt. Until then, let him play in the AHL.

Pretty much. We're talking about a guy who was a second rounder here too. So the investment to begin with wasn't that high. If he fails than he would do what most second rounders do. So the pressure of trying to salvage something out of him right now isn't there.

Hagg's 21-22 years old & still needs developing in the minors himself. He hasn't consistently put together a strong season since being drafted. If the Flyers didn't want to call-up Morin or Sanheim than one of the veterans would likely get the call. However at this point I would bet good money on Morin being the guy if they need someone from the minors anyway.

 

[Hiesenberg]

They have potentially 127 games left plus playoffs to evaluate Hagg in the AHL. They don't need to do anything until then.



He doesn't have an NHL contract but if he does sign it will slide this season and next season as long as he doesn't play more than 9 games in the NHL. Finishing the rest of this season out in the Q would be a good thing in my opinion. He's kind of stuck with his club team right now. Probably too good to keep playing in the MHL but not good enough to be a full time KHL player. The Q would be a step up from the MHL imo and 3 months and playoffs in North America could be good for him. Chicoutimi plays on international ice so the transition wouldn't be too harsh. I wouldn't want him to play next season in the Q though. I'd prefer that he play in the KHL or AHL if he's physically ready.

If he plays in juniors this year, isn't he stuck there like a normal junior player?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

If he plays in juniors this year, isn't he stuck there like a normal junior player?

Nope. He was drafted out of the KHL system. He's not subjected to the CHL-NHL agreement.

If he comes over my guess is he's either back in the KHL or in the AHL next year.

 

[Hiesenberg]

Nope. He was drafted out of the KHL system. He's not subjected to the CHL-NHL agreement.

If he comes over my guess is he's either back in the KHL or in the AHL next year.

If he comes over, he's buying out most likely, that means he's not contractually obligated to anybody, he can go directly to the AHL. If he leaves his team still under contract and just deports to go to juniors, he can't play in the AHL/NHL until his contractual duties are met, right?

 

[Les Averman]

He doesn't have an NHL contract but if he does sign it will slide this season and next season as long as he doesn't play more than 9 games in the NHL. Finishing the rest of this season out in the Q would be a good thing in my opinion. He's kind of stuck with his club team right now. Probably too good to keep playing in the MHL but not good enough to be a full time KHL player. The Q would be a step up from the MHL imo and 3 months and playoffs in North America could be good for him. Chicoutimi plays on international ice so the transition wouldn't be too harsh. I wouldn't want him to play next season in the Q though. I'd prefer that he play in the KHL or AHL if he's physically ready.

So does Chicoutimi then play all of their home games on an international sheet and away games on NA?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

If he comes over, he's buying out most likely, that means he's not contractually obligated to anybody, he can go directly to the AHL. If he leaves his team still under contract and just deports to go to juniors, he can't play in the AHL/NHL until his contractual duties are met, right?

He could be on a loan from his KHL club. It's happened before. So that's why I brought up he could be back there next year.

If he he buys it out than yeah he's not contractually obligated to any league next year.

 

[Hiesenberg]

He could be on a loan from his KHL club. It's happened before. So that's why I brought up he could be back there next year.

If he he buys it out than yeah he's not contractually obligated to any league next year.

I guess I'm just skeptical of KHL loaning anybody

 

[FLYguy3911]

So does Chicoutimi then play all of their home games on an international sheet and away games on NA?

Yeah I believe Chicoutimi is the only team in the Q that plays on the international sheet. IIRC Belleville used to in the OHL but they are no longer active.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I guess I'm just skeptical of KHL loaning anybody

They'd only be loaning him for the remainder of the year this year. They haven't really gotten anything out of him at this point with their big club there. He's essentially played in the MHL which he very well might be too good for at this point or playing with the KHL team getting very low minutes in a league he's not really ready for. So the CHL very well might be the best way to groom him for next year in their point of view.

 

[Dumpster Flyers]

Nope. He was drafted out of the KHL system. He's not subjected to the CHL-NHL agreement.

If he comes over my guess is he's either back in the KHL or in the AHL next year.

A second year in the Q might be the best thing for his development. You don't want him to turn into another Burmistrov, never refining his offensive game because he was rushed into a checking role.

 

[Striiker]

Apparently, according to Mensa members on the main boards, the CHL ruins nearly all Russian prospects and if the Flyers let him come over here then they're giving up on him because he'll only be worth a 7th. None of these players failures could be on the players and they would've reached their potential if they stayed in Russia (as you can see by the success of the KHL and how it's overflowing with elite talent).

I really have no clue where they get this from, but I love reading it. I really really do

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Apparently, according to Mensa members on the main boards, the CHL ruins nearly all Russian prospects and if the Flyers let him come over here then they're giving up on him because he'll only be worth a 7th. None of these players failures could be on the players and they would've reached their potential if they stayed in Russia (as you can see by the success of the KHL and how it's overflowing with elite talent).

I really have no clue where they get this from, but I love reading it. I really really do

I'm fine with being skeptical of it. It's tough to deny the evidence. However I don't really believe in writing a kid off or calling him names like some seem to do. As there are expections to it.

I don't know how it will turn out but in this sense Rubtsov's kind of stuck in limbo over there. He's not good enough to develop in the KHL & he's likely too good to develop in the MHL. The VHL doesn't seem to be an option either for whatever reason. So the CHL might honestly be the best route at this point for the year.

 

[Striiker]

I'm fine with being skeptical of it. It's tough to deny the evidence. However I don't really believe in writing a kid off or calling him names like some seem to do. As there are expections to it.

I don't know how it will turn out but in this sense Rubtsov's kind of stuck in limbo over there. He's not good enough to develop in the KHL & he's likely too good to develop in the MHL. The VHL doesn't seem to be an option either for whatever reason. So the CHL might honestly be the best route at this point for the year.

Yeah, I'm not saying it seems impossible for a kid to be hurt by coming over here, just that it's insane for them to act so sure of it, as if it's a guarantee.

They said the same stuff about Provorov and obviously that isn't going too bad so far.

For Rubtsov specifically, I think coming over here makes sense but I wouldn't be upset if he stayed there either. It's just that, like I've seen bunch of people saying including Appleyard, that he's smart/skilled/fast enough to play in the KHL but he's just not physically mature enough yet. And like you said the MHL isn't helping much either.

 

[Magua]

Yeah, I'm not saying it seems impossible for a kid to be hurt by coming over here, just that it's insane for them to act so sure of it, as if it's a guarantee.

They said the same stuff about Provorov and obviously that isn't going too bad so far.

For Rubtsov specifically, I think coming over here makes sense but I wouldn't be upset if he stayed there either. It's just that, like I've seen bunch of people saying including Appleyard, that he's smart/skilled/fast enough to play in the KHL but he's just not physically mature enough yet. And like you said the MHL isn't helping much either.

They always say Provorov is different because he came here at 14, which is true in a sense that he had much more time to acclimatize at an earlier developmental age. But it isn't like he didn't have a culture shock too. Kids who come over at 17-18 aren't exactly old dogs either. And wouldn't it make sense that they'd thus have more time to acclimatize than a 21 year old jumping right to the NHL from the KHL? Every kid is different and some developmental strategies work better for an individual than others. It's all about being in a good learning environment, and you can find good and ****** ones in Canada, the U.S., or Russia.

But really, in my glancing at those type of threads, the posters who trot out the doom and gloom about Russian kids coming over ALWAYS find a reason/excuse for the ones who did work out and ignore that the vast majority of prospects don't pan out anyway, whether they come over or stay in Russia or are good old Canadian boys who've never left Canada. Busts are busts. There are just so many factors to weigh in. A good number of the Russian prospects who come over were rushed in their development to begin with. Them coming over isn't much different than rushing a kid from the CHL to the NHL. Or the ever likely possibility that some of these top-billed Russian prospects who came over just weren't as good as thought.

 

[Magua]

I'd prefer that he play in the KHL or AHL if he's physically ready.

.........KHL KHL KHL

 

[FLYguy3911]

When he leads the Phantoms to the Calder Cup on the shoulders of TJ Brennan he'll be flooded with NHL offers.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I'm just waiting for Peter to weigh in at this point.

 

[SaSaShi]

They always say Provorov is different because he came here at 14, which is true in a sense that he had much more time to acclimatize at an earlier developmental age. But it isn't like he didn't have a culture shock too. Kids who come over at 17-18 aren't exactly old dogs either. And wouldn't it make sense that they'd thus have more time to acclimatize than a 21 year old jumping right to the NHL from the KHL? Every kid is different and some developmental strategies work better for an individual than others. It's all about being in a good learning environment, and you can find good and ****** ones in Canada, the U.S., or Russia.

But really, in my glancing at those type of threads, the posters who trot out the doom and gloom about Russian kids coming over ALWAYS find a reason/excuse for the ones who did work out and ignore that the vast majority of prospects don't pan out anyway, whether they come over or stay in Russia or are good old Canadian boys who've never left Canada. Busts are busts. There are just so many factors to weigh in. A good number of the Russian prospects who come over were rushed in their development to begin with. Them coming over isn't much different than rushing a kid from the CHL to the NHL. Or the ever likely possibility that some of these top-billed Russian prospects who came over just weren't as good as thought.

If you look at the evidence those russian posters do have a point. There are not alot of success stories of russian players coming ober at 18 to the CHL. They didnt really make excuses for the success stories because there HASNT been a success story of russians developing well in the CHL. It doesnt mean that rubtsov will fail, but you cannot disregard their viewpoints because the track tecord actually supports their theory.